In 1982 WILD Applied to move to 720 with 2.5kw day 500 w Night . 1009 miles from WGN. It was Turned Down by the FCC. In 2004 Koor Communications Applied for and was Granted A CP for 720 in Claremont CT [New London area] 50kw day 1.7 kw night, 971 miles From WGN. But Never Built. Have The Rules Changed? Could WILD Move to 720 Now?
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WILD 720
- Thread starter PHIL Z
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There is no such town as Claremont, CT. That 720 CP was for Claremont, NH about 30 miles from New London, NH. Claremont is on I-91.
To make 720 work, that signal used 4 towers from Hanover, then SIX towers, 260 feet tall, from Claremont (The original Hanover site spent a long time in the courts, ultimately getting the towers approved but the town passed an ordinance requiring radio transmission tower sites to be surrounded by a ten foot tall fence.) The approved night power was 670 watts.
There's also a 720 allocation for Billerica.
The point is that the station could move, but you'd have to put up a ridiculous array with almost negligible night power. It's beyond cost-pohibitive.
To make 720 work, that signal used 4 towers from Hanover, then SIX towers, 260 feet tall, from Claremont (The original Hanover site spent a long time in the courts, ultimately getting the towers approved but the town passed an ordinance requiring radio transmission tower sites to be surrounded by a ten foot tall fence.) The approved night power was 670 watts.
There's also a 720 allocation for Billerica.
The point is that the station could move, but you'd have to put up a ridiculous array with almost negligible night power. It's beyond cost-pohibitive.
C
cd637299
Guest
Not that I have any dog in the fight, but there used to be CHTN 720 in Prince Edward Island, and I heard it from the NC Outer Banks in 1997.
Although CHTN is gone (or moved to FM), protection is still granted toward PEI as well, in case another 720 crops up there.
That would make for some crazy pattern, I would suppose; and, as above, not worth the trouble.
In fact, investing in any AM, IMO, would be like investing in a company that makes new black-&-white analog TV sets.
cd
Although CHTN is gone (or moved to FM), protection is still granted toward PEI as well, in case another 720 crops up there.
That would make for some crazy pattern, I would suppose; and, as above, not worth the trouble.
In fact, investing in any AM, IMO, would be like investing in a company that makes new black-&-white analog TV sets.
cd
There has been a pirate on 720 in inner city Boston for many years. I think it's Haitian religious programming.
These are great radio-stories..... When WILD was planning to move to 720, they had a deal with 740 who was going to move to 1090. The FCC did reject the 720 application requesting decent power at night. Rules have not changed except for the fact that daytimers now have flea-power at night, unlike back then. I had an enginneering study done around 1993, to see if WJIB could get higher night power if it moved to 720, and the answer was a resounding YES! If WJIB was to be on 720, it could have 6 watts; as compared to the present and then 5 watts.
After that WILD-1090/WCAS-740 plan fell apart, then a CP for 720 in Billerica appeared. That died, and is no longer an option. Also, back then, I think CHTN was not yet on 720, but rather still on 1190, in PEI.
As to Bob Vinikoor's 720 in NH.... He fought vigorously against Hanover town hall. They kept denying. He took it to NH Supreme Court and cleaned Hanover's clock. Then Bob bought two 50kw transmitters, one as back-up (one was from CKLW). He went out to Windsor Ont and picked it up (with machinery of course!) and brought it to NH. Then town hall quickly passed a law stating that all towers higher than x-feet be surrounded by that 10' fence that the other poster mentioned above. That fence had to surround the 30+ acres the 6 towers would take up. Vengeful people like that do not deserve to have any governing positions! (Hanover is likely a liberal spot in the red-state area, and probably didn't like Bob airing Rush Limbaugh. Bob Vinikoor is a very fine gentleman, so the fact Bob aired Rush might have been the reason.). By the time this was all over, it became common knowledge that a 50kw AM station might just croak any broadcasting company. So maybe Hanover unknowingly did Bob a favor.
After that WILD-1090/WCAS-740 plan fell apart, then a CP for 720 in Billerica appeared. That died, and is no longer an option. Also, back then, I think CHTN was not yet on 720, but rather still on 1190, in PEI.
As to Bob Vinikoor's 720 in NH.... He fought vigorously against Hanover town hall. They kept denying. He took it to NH Supreme Court and cleaned Hanover's clock. Then Bob bought two 50kw transmitters, one as back-up (one was from CKLW). He went out to Windsor Ont and picked it up (with machinery of course!) and brought it to NH. Then town hall quickly passed a law stating that all towers higher than x-feet be surrounded by that 10' fence that the other poster mentioned above. That fence had to surround the 30+ acres the 6 towers would take up. Vengeful people like that do not deserve to have any governing positions! (Hanover is likely a liberal spot in the red-state area, and probably didn't like Bob airing Rush Limbaugh. Bob Vinikoor is a very fine gentleman, so the fact Bob aired Rush might have been the reason.). By the time this was all over, it became common knowledge that a 50kw AM station might just croak any broadcasting company. So maybe Hanover unknowingly did Bob a favor.
And there are more "7-stories-from-hell". Back around 1991, WJTO-730 in Bath, Maine applied and got a CP for 10,000 watts day and 500 watts night, using 5 towers cramped in on the 11.5-acre site in West Bath. Daytime, beaming up the coast in NE direction, and nighttime, beaming to Bath, straight north. It never got town-hall approval (and wasn't going to), but coincidentally the station went into bankruptcy court right around the same time. (Since then, it has had two owners before my purchase of it in March 1997; Frank Burke and Carl Strube).
There was also a 720 application up near Bangor, for 50,000 watts day and some puny nighttime power using 4 or more towers. I think common sense prevailed and it wasn't/or won't be built.
Back to Boston area..... WCAS/WLVG (whatever it was then) around 1988, got a CP for 2,500 watts day, from the Ashland 5-tower site, along with some smaller power at night... with the main lobe pointing right at Mattapan. With lesser signal to Cambridge, the city-of-license was changed from Cambridge to Needham within the CP. Never happened... and that's a good thing.
There was also a 720 application up near Bangor, for 50,000 watts day and some puny nighttime power using 4 or more towers. I think common sense prevailed and it wasn't/or won't be built.
Back to Boston area..... WCAS/WLVG (whatever it was then) around 1988, got a CP for 2,500 watts day, from the Ashland 5-tower site, along with some smaller power at night... with the main lobe pointing right at Mattapan. With lesser signal to Cambridge, the city-of-license was changed from Cambridge to Needham within the CP. Never happened... and that's a good thing.
reelyreal said:
To be technical about it, of course, there's no such thing as an "AM allocation." AM stations are licensed strictly on a contour-protection basis: if, during a major application window, you can show that a new facility can be built that won't interfere (based on the rules in 73.37) with any existing AM signals, and that it will meet the Section 307(b) criteria for "fair and equitable distribution" of broadcast service, you can get a new AM on the air.
There was a long-dead CP for Billerica (and contrary to my friend JIBGUY, I believe it did co-exist with 720 in PEI, which was on the air on that channel as early as 1990), and if you could somehow get past NIMBY opposition to new towers and come up with the cash to build a new directional array, you could probably get a similar facility granted today, if there's ever a new AM window. But given the state of AM radio and NIMBYism today? Yeah, not going to happen.
When the clear-channel protection rules were revised in the late 1980s (opening up the possibility of duplicating nighttime use of I-A clear channels outside a certain level of skywave protection), there were lots of optimistic applications for new service on channels otherwise in use in distant places like Chicago and St. Louis and San Antonio. Some came to pass - 1120 ended up with a new station in Concord MA and fulltime use in Bristol CT by a former 1440 daytimer, WBIS, for instance. WBMA/WBPS/WAMG ended up on 890. WKOX moved from 1190, of course, and 1200 also went into use (briefly) in Maine. WCRN ended up with a very decent facility on 830, aided by WNYC's move from 830 to 820 that was in turn made possible by the reduction of protection to WBAP. Other dreams never saw fruition. The proposed 720 in Syracuse never happened, though it got as far as an experimental license and a ground-conductivity test. There were lots of plans for 780 in Syracuse, too, that never got to the finish line. There was going to be a 1040 in Albany (Delmar NY), which sat on the books as a CP for many years without being built. And how about the 670 permit that lingered up in Burlington (Essex Junction) VT for many years before finally giving up the ghost?
Scott, I knew it wasn't an allocation, but I wasn't quite sure what to call it. When the FCC still lists the 720 Billerica in their database, is there a name for that type of "paper station?"
Bob, Alex Langer would certainly be the guy to make a move work, wouldn't he? It'll be interesting to see what happens.
Bob, Alex Langer would certainly be the guy to make a move work, wouldn't he? It'll be interesting to see what happens.
I could see why someone would think of CT when seeing "near New London" as NH has a city by that name, too....Years ago I had a book called Around the Dial/Around the Channels put out by
Broadcasting Mag. that listed radio & TV stations and I believe I saw the listing for the 720
in NH, or was it the 720 proposed for Billerica (maybe that one) even though it was strictly on
the drawing boards and not on air yet.
>>When the FCC still lists the 720 Billerica in their database, is there a name for that type of "paper station?"
radio-locator still lists "WQTH 720 Claremont NH" even though it says the last FCC update
was 2007!
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=WQTH&x=0&y=0&sr=Y&s=C
Wasn't there a 1700 proposed for Rochester NH? Call letters to maybe be "WZNN" as it was
to run CNN Headline News?
"paper station"--I have heard of such things as
"paper streets". A map of a town will show a street complete with a name which is proposed
but never actually got built.
>>WBMA/WBPS/WAMG ended up on 890.
I think that was another "proposed station" that showed up in "Around The Dial"
>>And how about the 670 permit that lingered up in Burlington (Essex Junction) VT for many years before finally giving up the ghost?
Which still shows up on radio-locator, "CP granted 2006, last FCC update 2011. Currently Off
The Air" http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?sr=Y&s=C&call=WVVT&x=0&y=0
Broadcasting Mag. that listed radio & TV stations and I believe I saw the listing for the 720
in NH, or was it the 720 proposed for Billerica (maybe that one) even though it was strictly on
the drawing boards and not on air yet.
>>When the FCC still lists the 720 Billerica in their database, is there a name for that type of "paper station?"
radio-locator still lists "WQTH 720 Claremont NH" even though it says the last FCC update
was 2007!
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=WQTH&x=0&y=0&sr=Y&s=C
Wasn't there a 1700 proposed for Rochester NH? Call letters to maybe be "WZNN" as it was
to run CNN Headline News?
"paper station"--I have heard of such things as
"paper streets". A map of a town will show a street complete with a name which is proposed
but never actually got built.
>>WBMA/WBPS/WAMG ended up on 890.
I think that was another "proposed station" that showed up in "Around The Dial"
>>And how about the 670 permit that lingered up in Burlington (Essex Junction) VT for many years before finally giving up the ghost?
Which still shows up on radio-locator, "CP granted 2006, last FCC update 2011. Currently Off
The Air" http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?sr=Y&s=C&call=WVVT&x=0&y=0
I've picked up that 720 pirate here in Beverly
920 in Needham? WHJJ would love that! As for 1410, I can't find anything on that on the F.C.C. site. No applications have been filed that I can find. Which frequency could it move to? If I'm remembering correctly, only minor changes are being allowed currently & that means -/+ 30kc. or 450/460kc. That would be somewhere 1380-1440 or 950/960, all which are used. This has me scratching my head! ???JIBGUY said:
N1WVQ said:
920 in Needham could have been WBSO (pre-NARBA antecedent of today's WROL). I thought WBSO was licensed to Wellesley, but I could be wrong. The transmitter was either in Needham or very close to Needham. The letters BSO had nothing to do with the Boston Symphony Orchestra; they stood for Babson Statistical Organization--I believe a progenitor of today's Babson College. Despite its connection with an educational organization, WBSO was a commercial station. WBSO ultimately lost its license for multiple transgressions of FCC rules. After being dark for a year or more, WORL (now WROL) emerged on 950 (that would have been post NARBA in which nearly all occupants of 920 migrated to 950). There was also an application for 910 in (I think) Foxboro. This was probably in the mid 1960s. I believe the applicant was the owner of the Rodman Ford dealership. I don't think a CP was ever granted and the obvious reason would have been prohibited overlap with what was then WJAR.
As for 820 in Weymouth, yes there was an application for 820 on the South Shore (10 kW-U DA-2). Happened when the FCC broke down the IA clear channels (early '80s, maybe). WNYC in New York, which operated L-WCCO on 830 wanted to go full-time. The FCC decided that 820 would be better than 830 for WNYC. The South Shore 820 allocation thus went bye-bye and an allocation for 830 in the Worcester area was substituted. (Yes, Scott; I know that "allocation" doesn't strictly apply, but I do believe these "reservations" were treated as allocations.) WCRN was originally to be licensed to Cherry Valley but I believe that when the CP was actually granted, it was for Worcester. Original power was 7 kW-D/5 kW-N, which was increased first to 50 kW-D/5 kW-N and ultimately to 50 kW-U.
JIBGUY said:
The CP of which you speak is for Hampden ME (very near Bangor) on 750 with 50 kW-U/10 kW-N DA-N (four towers at night). If built, it would be--arguably--Maine's best AM signal. I suspect that, by now, the application has long-since lapsed.
I believe the applicants were Hecht and Alonso. Hecht is Charlie Hecht, the consulting engineer who redesigned what is now WQOM 1060 and got it 50 kW-D. He also redesigned WSRO 650 using what had originally been WKOX's two towers and has now applied to increase the night power a bit more--from the current 62W to 100W. Prior to the upgrade, WSRO ran 250W-D/9W-N ND-U with a PSSA that allowed the daytime power to be used until Nashville sunset. With 100W-N, the nighttime signal strength to the northeast of the Framingham site will be the equivalent of a tad more than the former 250W-D ND. Hecht is good at figuring out what the FCC will accept and what it won't. He doesn't goof very often, but his failed attempt to move the CP for WVVT 670 Essex Junction VT to the Albany NY area was one try that didn't succeed. CBS fought his attempt because it created prohibited overlap with WFAN.
What possible programming could these 670, 720 or 750s provide to their coverage areas that can realistically pay just the electric bill for their transmitters?
There are a few dedicated radio people who can and do make a go of such stations.
Otherwise, the only "real" ROI I can think of from their existence is: To the people who build them on spec and flip them for profit.
Does anyone know what percentage of stations of this caliber are billing at break-even or in the red? I hazard a guess that 80% of them ain't making any dough.
How much is the electric bill to operate a very efficient 50kw Nautel 12 hours daily for 30 days here in Boston in 2012?
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There are a few dedicated radio people who can and do make a go of such stations.
Otherwise, the only "real" ROI I can think of from their existence is: To the people who build them on spec and flip them for profit.
Does anyone know what percentage of stations of this caliber are billing at break-even or in the red? I hazard a guess that 80% of them ain't making any dough.
How much is the electric bill to operate a very efficient 50kw Nautel 12 hours daily for 30 days here in Boston in 2012?
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iyiyi said:
Problem is, there are fewer and fewer such gullable buyers out there these days. -
On the "920" in Needham... my mistake. Wasn't 920, it was "9-SOMEthing". I never knew the exact frequency. MIGHT have been 910 tightly squeezed in. That, and the 820 in Weymouth go back to the early or mid 1980's. - Also, I think there was a 750 CP for Manchester NH! I think Dana Puopolo had an interest in that. This may have been after the 750-Portsmouth went off and before 760-Worcester raised power from 10kw to 25kw.
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