Will 1480 AM Night Signal Every Improve?

[ncincy1]

I know it's not a lot of power, but I only live 5.5 miles from the transmitters (Sharonville) and can barely receive them after sunset. However, during the day they are the strongest of Cincy AM's - except for WLW.
I recognize and fully understand the business decision to move from 1160 to 1480 but still trying the grasp the technical decision.
Note: On most nights, I could receive WDJO after sunset even this far from Florence (once the Chicago 1160 post-signal faded).
Any plans to repair the ground system - if that's the problem and/or increase nighttime power? Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[microbob]

You may have to settle for the audio stream in order to listen after sunset. I'm located in an area in Northern KY where even the daytime signal is barely listenable, forget about after sunset. 1160 will always have the better day and night signal since I'm closer to Florence.

 

[glieb]

Not likely. Like most of the AM band, 1480 is a very crowded freq. At night they are pretty much hemmed in on all sides, and thus the 300 watt limit. Nulls especially deep to the north and west. I think the freq change was pretty much a wash as far as coverage is concerned. Moved it north a bit, but still very limited at night. Clear Channel knew what they were doing years ago when they scooped up the 4 best AM channels in Cincinnati. Everything they left on the table never has nor never will have any signal viability.

 

[nmoore6676]

Just a stab in the dark or something like that but since WDJO has been doing a very well executed oldies format and apparently there are listeners wanting it could they not put together a kind of network Joe Mullins has done with his Classic Country stations, the three I's. There seems to be a number of AM stations and class A FMs in and around the Tri-state area that could be purchased or LMAed. There are not many ways, as others have said above, to upgrade AM channels anymore as they are packed pretty full and with IBOC it is only getting worse.

 

[SteelersBRSeven]

Is wlw just 300 watts after sunset also? I have a little problem with them at night up here in Richmond IN. There is a lot of static

 

[hipporadio]

1480 USED to be a full 5kw-day/1kw-night into a fairly efficient antenna system... That was back in the late 70s. I heard it on it’s former facility and it "played" MUCH BETTER. It was clearly audible at night facilities into Indiana – nearly to Brookville along U.S. 52... Not so today! It went off the air – then had to re-engineer the facility under more restrictive rules, relocate the site, and the rest is what you hear—an anemic AM station after the sun goes down. I’m NOT Scott Flybush, but I’d wager that 1480’s night signal will get NO BETTER under ANY scenario under current rules... It's as "good" as it's going to get... SAD, but TRUE!

 

[ncincy1]

I understand (reluctantly) the fact that "it's as good as it gets"
I tried to listen to 1480 this morning, pre-sunrise, and it was not good until they cranked it up to 4500 watts.
Also, the topic of trying to have poor am signals simulcast on an open LPFM has been kicked around on this board, but why can't WDJO try for that scenario?
Do we really need to have all of these LPFM given to KLOVE and Air1? Maybe moot since the FM dial here in northerneastern Hamilton county is already very crowded.

 

[hipporadio]

That’s a good point, nCincy1... First, we have to face the facts of physics... AM facilities are a “victim” of darkness—unless they are in the class of WLW. As metros grew, they built houses beyond the original contours of AM stations that were plotted in the 1940-50s. I have long been an proponent [and opponent] of "auxiliary" use of the FM band... PRO: Put night-challenged AM on the FM band... NOT: get these "low-rent" or sat-delivered "translators" OFF THE AIR—they offer NO "public service"... The FCC should immediately cancel the HUGE backlog of remaining apps for these "facilities" - THEY ARE SHAMS and need to be banished, so more productive sevices can be considered. The Commision should invoke their rule regarding "secondary status" and REMOVE THEM in order to augment AM station coverage to the burbs that has fallen-short due to urban sprawl...AND the PRIMARY SERVIVE of AM stations in small coomunities that were awarded only "daytime" licenses decades ago. Think about WHAT is more "important". I’m not sure this diatribe would solve the former “WDJO” dilemma, but it MAY offer relief in many other places.

 

[ncincy1]

Is wlw just 300 watts after sunset also? I have a little problem with them at night up here in Richmond IN. There is a lot of static

To my knowledge 700 WLW is still (as always) 50K watts day and night. 1 pattern and 1 direction.

http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WLW&service=AM&status=L&hours=U

I personally think most all AM stations have gone "downhill" in terms of overall reception since the good old days (60's - 80's). Too much electrical interference and lack of regular ground systems/transmitter/tower maintenance. Seems they only spend $$ to repair AM's when they absolutely have to. Sad!

 

[hipporadio]

I personally think most all AM stations have gone "downhill" in terms of overall reception since the good old days (60's - 80's)...

It *might not* be a simple matter of big-bad “corporate radio” failing to maintain their AM facility... Remember, in recent years these same folks have REPLACED old tube-modulated rigs with excellent-sounding solid-state rigs that offer much better performance. The integrity of the ground system is an overly-common excuse for a perceived reduction in AM coverage... Not necessarily... I know this because I actually HAD to replace a ground system after the 1993 Mississippi River floods. Prior to, I always bitched about my ground system and coverage... I finally got a NEW ONE and didn't gain a mile until I installed a folded unipole. It is VERY EASY for a qualified CE to determine when an AM antenna ground system is compromised and significantly affects performance... I highly suspect “corporate” would take proper measures to preserve their coverage if that was the case.

AM propagation has been reduced due to two major factors over the last two decades: URBAN SPRAWL—the construction of buildings close to AM towers that were purposely-located in farm fields decades earlier... This dramatically reduces near-field ground conductivity and thus levels further-out. The electrical noise floor on the AM band is MUCH HIGHER today... Thank your PC, TV, home security system, garage door opener, microwave oven, and aquarium heater for those stray buzzes. This is why AM can’t “cut thru” these days... BLAME THE FCC for not enforcing the Part 15 rules! At night, stations that were once “silent” after dark are now on the air – allegedly with flea power—RIGHT This creates additional nighttime ingress of objectionable co-channel interference that was not a factor decades ago... Many of these stations operate with “day power” [especially when a high school football game is being covered]... Again, blame the FCC!

 

[FRR]

Rodger K said the night signal will improve.

 

[ncincy1]

I personally think most all AM stations have gone "downhill" in terms of overall reception since the good old days (60's - 80's)...

It *might not* be a simple matter of big-bad “corporate radio” failing to maintain their AM facility... Remember, in recent years these same folks have REPLACED old tube-modulated rigs with excellent-sounding solid-state rigs that offer much better performance. The integrity of the ground system is an overly-common excuse for a perceived reduction in AM coverage... Not necessarily... I know this because I actually HAD to replace a ground system after the 1993 Mississippi River floods. Prior to, I always bitched about my ground system and coverage... I finally got a NEW ONE and didn't gain a mile until I installed a folded unipole. It is VERY EASY for a qualified CE to determine when an AM antenna ground system is compromised and significantly affects performance... I highly suspect “corporate” would take proper measures to preserve their coverage if that was the case.

AM propagation has been reduced due to two major factors over the last two decades: URBAN SPRAWL—the construction of buildings close to AM towers that were purposely-located in farm fields decades earlier... This dramatically reduces near-field ground conductivity and thus levels further-out. The electrical noise floor on the AM band is MUCH HIGHER today... Thank your PC, TV, home security system, garage door opener, microwave oven, and aquarium heater for those stray buzzes. This is why AM can’t “cut thru” these days... BLAME THE FCC for not enforcing the Part 15 rules! At night, stations that were once “silent” after dark are now on the air – allegedly with flea power—RIGHT This creates additional nighttime ingress of objectionable co-channel interference that was not a factor decades ago... Many of these stations operate with “day power” [especially when a high school football game is being covered]... Again, blame the FCC!

This makes perfect sense - thanks for the technical "lesson" - very much appreciated!

 

[ncincy1]

Rodger K said the night signal will improve.

Rodger K said the night signal will improve.

Very good news ------
Of course, I'm going to ask the following (if you or anyone can provide the answers it would be much appreciated).
1.) When?
2.) What's being done?

Thanks again.

 

[moneymaker]

Rodger K said the night signal will improve.

He (in one of his many post-names here) also said there would be no changes at WCIN.

 

[hipporadio]

First, I never knew that Roger used “aliases” here [I thought that was reserved for Russ, WKLU—Indy’s race car-driving owner who frequents the Indy board]. Roger has assembled a GREAT legacy staff and presented an awesome effort to present a pre-modern format on 1160... The night signal suffered, but was “big ‘n bad” during the day. Now [on 1480], it’s a signal that would more-be appropriately-located as a “local” in Lawrenceburg. I am VERY SORRY to be the guy with bad news in his bag, but there is NO reasonable expectation that 1480’s night coverage will evolve to ANY level that permits it to cover the Cincy metro... Furthermore, there is little hope that [the former WDJO] could sustain it’s already-meager former share on the 1480 *DAY* facility. I’m VERY SAD to report this, but [sometimes] reality trumps wishful thinking. :'(

 

[schmave]

Is wlw just 300 watts after sunset also? I have a little problem with them at night up here in Richmond IN. There is a lot of static

Are you being facetious? WLW is a blaster night and day and in Richmond, only 45 miles from the transmitter, it should cut through anything to the point that other than any Richmond stations, WLW should be your strongest AM. I can't imagine any manmade interference doing that much harm to WLW so close to Cincinnati.
What sort of radio do you have?

 

[hipporadio]

I think he was a bit "confused"—NO ONE believes that "The Big One" [WLW] cranks a mere 300 watts after sunset.

I suspect he meant 1480—the new home of Oldies WDJO.

Since you're from "The Rose City", let's visit your own 1490 WKBV [Richmond]... They might as well crank only 300-watts at night—likely NO DIFFERENCE from their feeble attempt at 1kw... This is a "poster child" for an AM station that needs to fill a Viagra prescription... One of the worst-coverage AMs floating thru the atmosphere! If I owned that station, I'd have an army of engineers at the tower base to make sure the coax was properly connected

No doubt, WLW places the highest amount of nighttime AM RF over Richmond, IN at night [unless you're listening on West Main or live on Tingler Road near WHON].

 

[gabigley1]

I know it's not a lot of power, but I only live 5.5 miles from the transmitters (Sharonville) and can barely receive them after sunset. However, during the day they are the strongest of Cincy AM's - except for WLW.
I recognize and fully understand the business decision to move from 1160 to 1480 but still trying the grasp the technical decision.
Note: On most nights, I could receive WDJO after sunset even this far from Florence (once the Chicago 1160 post-signal faded).
Any plans to repair the ground system - if that's the problem and/or increase nighttime power? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Dose anyone know why they couldn't kept Oldies on on 1160 and Jazz and 1480? Those were the original plans for 1160 and 1480 after 1480 was purchased outright. These plans were posted on this board. Since the Oldies format moved to the less desirable 1480 frequency, we here in Columbus can't hear WDJO 1480 any longer.

If the 1160 price was right, would they have purchased 1160 AM? What is/was the asking price for 1160 AM?

 

[MikeStandardsFromIndiana]

the oldies people bout 1480 outright. they were leasing time on 1160am. if you own a station outright why continue to lease time on the other station.

 

[gabigley1]

the oldies people bout 1480 outright. they were leasing time on 1160am. if you own a station outright why continue to lease time on the other station.

This article says: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090518/ENT/905190343/WCIN+(1480)+to+be+new+home+for+oldies they couldn't come to an agreement
on a purchase price for 1160 AM. They only paid $600,000 for 1480 AM so its seems to me they at least got a good deal on that station. Apparently, they weren't
able to work out a good deal on 1160 AM and that is when/where the talks broke off. That explains why they didn't keep with their original plans of Jazz for 1480
and Oldies for 1160 because they originally planed to purchase both 1160 AM and 1480 AM.