Will Clear Channel change WOR call letters

[badjef]

The "rules" about three-letter calls are not codified anywhere in Part 73, or elsewhere. They're handled in an informal, unwritten way by the callsign desk at the Media Bureau...but here's what I've teased out from following their precedent over the years:

Three-letter calls cannot be moved from market to market. If CC wants to move WOR, it can move WOR to another station in the New York market, but not elsewhere.

Three-letter base calls can be reused in other services, but only in the same market. 105.1 (or 100.3, or 104.3, or whatever) could become WOR-FM. 105.9 in Hartford could not.

Three-letter calls cannot be transferred to an unrelated owner. While CBS could allow some operator elsewhere to to put a "WINS-FM" on the air in a different market (or even in NYC), Clear Channel won't be able to allow a "WOR-FM" or "WOR-TV" under other ownership elsewhere. (However: an owner with three-letter calls across multiple services can sell them to different owners and allow them to keep the calls, so CBS could keep WJZ-TV in Baltimore and sell WJZ(AM) and WJZ-FM to different owners without a forced call change. This of course is a change in the rules from the days when WOR-TV had to change calls when ownership split from WOR AM).

Three-letter calls can be revived after being dropped...sometimes. It's very much at the whim of the callsign desk staffers to decide whether to grant a request. They've granted requests in the past (KHJ, KUT, KRE) and denied requests in the past. They are not governed by any black-and-white rule, just years of precedent and whatever leverage any given owner's DC lawyer can bring to bear. As a general rule of thumb, the FCC seems loath to restore a three-letter call to someone other than the owner/station who gave it up. KUT is an exception, sort of.

3 Letter that have moved and returned:
KYW, WRCP, back to KYW.
WHN, WMGM, back to WHN.

Didn't KHJ have KCAR during their "Car Radio" days?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[NJMark]

do you really think radio is being run today by anyone who cares a bit about history or tradition?

When was it EVER? Is a station supposed to operate like it's still the 1960s and there have been no changes to, or affecting, the broadcasting industry?

As for letters, I do like heritage. I didn't like the loss of WNBC from the radio dial, and I'd hate to think of 770 being called anything but WABC. Likewise for WOR and 710.

The case for changing is the reality that "WOR" implies Bernard Meltzer, Arlene Francis, Carlton Fredericks, the Fitzgeralds, and the people who listened to them, even though they're dead (the hosts and their listeners).

The case for keeping them is that "WOR" is associated with talk at 710, and they're still going to be a talk station at 710, regardless of the letters, so why bother changing?

The most important thing is to demonstrate that it is "not your great-grandfather's station."

 

[reelyreal]

3 Letter that have moved and returned:
KYW, WRCP, back to KYW.
WHN, WMGM, back to WHN.

Didn't KHJ have KCAR during their "Car Radio" days?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

To be exact, those calls never "moved" anywhere else; they were just given up, then re-applied for.

As for KHJ, they never had the KCAR calls, those have always been in Clarksville, TX. The calls in LA went KHJ > KRTH > KKHJ > KHJ

 

[badjef]

3 Letter that have moved and returned:
KYW, WRCP, back to KYW.
WHN, WMGM, back to WHN.

Didn't KHJ have KCAR during their "Car Radio" days?

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

To be exact, those calls never "moved" anywhere else; they were just given up, then re-applied for.

As for KHJ, they never had the KCAR calls, those have always been in Clarksville, TX. The calls in LA went KHJ > KRTH > KKHJ > KHJ

KYW moved to Cleveland for awhile during the botched NBC purchase of Channel 3.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Ai4i]

The United States only has access to three and a fraction first characters: K, N, W, and part of the A series.
The remainder of the alphabet and numbers are assigned to other countries.

 

[luperm]

badjef is correct that KYW moved to Cleveland then back to Philadelphia. The WHN calls were given up for WMGM, then reinstated.

 

[ka2xuk]

It would be a huge mistake if they did.

I was at WPHT when it changed its call letters from WCAU in Philly. WOR is more iconic, but WCAU still carried some weight from Facenda and CBS. It was a mistake.

WCAU had to change its call letters because of FCC policy at that time. CBS had to sell WCAU-TV when they merged with Westinghouse in 1995, as they could not own two VHF TV stations in the same market and the merger gave them KYW-TV. NBC bought Channel 10 and kept the WCAU call letters. CBS could not keep a counterpart callsign on AM or FM according to FCC rules at the time, so they had to go to something else.

 

[ka2xuk]

It would be a horrible idea to change WOR or any historic three OR four letter callsign. Rules do allow them to go back to three letter callsigns, fortunately.

Not anymore. Under current FCC rules, once a three-letter callsign is relinquished, it cannot be recovered. Those callsigns are reserved for coastal stations in the maritime radio service. The FCC did grant a waiver in the case of KHJ in Los Angeles. When RKO General had to sell off its stations, KHJ Radio and KHJ-TV had to be sold to different buyers. The TV buyer at the time kept the KHJ call letters (now KCAL-TV) and the radio station became KKHJ. KKHJ eventually adopted a Spanish-language format, but the letters K K, pronounced in Spanish, suggest a rude word in that language. So the FCC granted a waiver and KKHJ once again has its historic KHJ call letters.

There was a time when New York had at least four stations with three-letter callsigns: WOR, WJZ, WHN, and WOV. WJZ is now WABC (but CBS is using the WJZ-AM/FM call letters in Baltimore, as they were "grandfathered" from WJZ-TV, issued in 1957), WHN is now WEPN, and WOV is now WADO. Only WOR remains.

 

[ka2xuk]

3 Letter that have moved and returned:
KYW, WRCP, back to KYW.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

The call letters once used by KYW in Philly were WRCV, not WRCP. WRCP was the Rust Craft station on 1540. It once played country music and had the slogan "Real Country Power".

WRCV was used when NBC owned the station from the late fifties to 1965.

 

[Ai4i]

Mucho kaka en esta conversación ;D

 

[badjef]

3 Letter that have moved and returned:
KYW, WRCP, back to KYW.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

The call letters once used by KYW in Philly were WRCV, not WRCP. WRCP was the Rust Craft station on 1540. It once played country music and had the slogan "Real Country Power".

WRCV was used when NBC owned the station from the late fifties to 1965.

I stand corrected.

WRCP is one of the sets of calls 104.5 has used during its time.

I was thinking in terms of RC(A)-Philadelphia as opposed to RC(A)- Victor.

RCA was big in making up their calls relateable for O/Os. KNBR, etc. WMAQ was one letter back from NBR, etc.

I believe it has closed, now, but I was fortunate to visit the Sarnoff Institute and visit the Museum in Princeton in 2009.

You would think that NBC took a hit, and maybe they did, but during the time they owned #3, they were able to help solve co-channel problems as a result of their proximity between Roxborough and Empire.

It is the reason they wanted #3 so bad. From that location, they were able to see the problems with the real world variables, especially, after the transmitter upgrade to color.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Marckd]

I doubt Clear Channel will drop WOR call letters - TOO MUCH HISTORY - They will modify the format but will remain talk with many elements remaining...Predict will be more issues based than before. WOR has only been strictly talk about 30 years. Previously they evolved from a free flowing Full Service MOR format. WOR till about 1984 played music on morning and afternoon drive; most of the day Saturday; and Sunday afternoons. The MUsic was a Soft AC/Easy Listening mix. Anyhow too much history - to dump calls

 

[fybush]

RCA was big in making up their calls relateable for O/Os. KNBR, etc. WMAQ was one letter back from NBR, etc.

That's an odd coincidence, but nothing else. The WMAQ calls were assigned sequentially in 1922 to the Chicago Daily News, four years before there even was an NBC and forty years before there was a KNBR. The KNBR calls in San Francisco replaced KNBC, which had replaced the original KPO calls on 680 in 1949. KNBC 680 (and KNBC-FM 99.7) in San Francisco became KNBR/KNBR-FM in order to allow NBC to use the KNBC callsign on channel 4 in LA, which started as KNBH (NBC Hollywood) and was then KRCA-TV for a few years in the fifties.

 

[badjef]

RCA was big in making up their calls relateable for O/Os. KNBR, etc. WMAQ was one letter back from NBR, etc.

That's an odd coincidence, but nothing else. The WMAQ calls were assigned sequentially in 1922 to the Chicago Daily News, four years before there even was an NBC and forty years before there was a KNBR. The KNBR calls in San Francisco replaced KNBC, which had replaced the original KPO calls on 680 in 1949. KNBC 680 (and KNBC-FM 99.7) in San Francisco became KNBR/KNBR-FM in order to allow NBC to use the KNBC callsign on channel 4 in LA, which started as KNBH (NBC Hollywood) and was then KRCA-TV for a few years in the fifties.

There are way too many coincidences that just happen to be relatable.

A coincidence to me:
The NBC Building in Chicago. One side of the building has the address numbers 454, indicating L.A. Channel 4, Chicago Channel 5, New York Channel 4. "4-5-4", Looking on a map in the boardroom, get it?
On the other side of the building has the address of "455" which is the local oscillator frequency of a superhetrodyne receiver.
(AM radio, kids)

But, call letters? That's a different story. Whether it be "RCA" or "NBC", you would be hard pressed to tell me that the notes for "Taps" as the musical notes of "C", "E", and "G" played as "G-E-C" just by coincidence say "N-B-C". Lights out!, or the end of the Network programming.

Sorry, Scott, I don't buy it!

It is, however possible that the combinations and meanings have been lost in some of those, but remember the command and respect RCA and the NBC Networks meant back then.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Bongwater]

Clear Channel is not one to tamper with legendary call letters and wherever possible, have a tendency to resurrect them (WTAM Cleveland is one example, which became KYW briefly, then WKYC, WWWE "3WE" and finally back to WTAM) They also claim it was a "coincidence" that WTAM returned to it's original home, that they were just looking for a set of calls with "AM" in them. I honestly don't think it was THAT coincidental.....

 

[SonoSational18]

3WE's return to WTAM was actually under Secret ownership. Clear Channel didn't own it until 1999. At the time of the switch, then PD Bobby Hatfild wanted something with "AM" as the last two letters. The fact that it was the station's original call letters made it doubly attractive.

 

[beachguy3b]

badjef is correct that KYW moved to Cleveland then back to Philadelphia. The WHN calls were given up for WMGM, then reinstated.

And KYW started out as (I believe) Chicago's first radio station before moving to Philly...

 

[jmtillery]

badjef is correct that KYW moved to Cleveland then back to Philadelphia. The WHN calls were given up for WMGM, then reinstated.

And KYW started out as (I believe) Chicago's first radio station before moving to Philly...

That is correct! KYW began in Chicago then moved to Cleveland. From there it moved to Philadelphia.

 

[fybush]

That is correct! KYW began in Chicago then moved to Cleveland. From there it moved to Philadelphia.

A little backwards there, Mark - KYW indeed started in Chicago in 1921, but when it moved in 1934 (because the "radio zone" in which Chicago was located had too many clear channels compared to other zones), it went to Philadelphia. The KYW transmitter site became the WMAQ site and is still the WSCR-670 site to this day.

The KYW calls were moved to Cleveland (ex-WTAM) when NBC and Westinghouse swapped stations at NBC's behest in 1956; KYW returned to Philadelphia in 1965 when the Feds ruled that NBC had illegally pressured Westinghouse into the swap by threatening to pull its affiliations with Westinghouse stations in other markets.

 

[Ai4i]

I believe it has closed, now, but I was fortunate to visit the Sarnoff Institute and visit the Museum in Princeton in 2009.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

I want the artist rendition of Sarnoff helping Armstrong out the window. Was it a good painting ???