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Will DAVE or WAOK go AllNews?
- Thread starter wpb1999
- Start date
Look at Dave's rating. 92.9 is a "dead music station walking". Unless there is a big rating turn around, I would be surprise if 92.9 is still playing music by Easter.
http://www.radio-info.com/markets/atlanta
I would not be surprised if WCNN AM out billed WGCZ.
Another "Wild Card" is CC. Would they put Rush and the rest of the WGST talk on 96.1 or put WWVA on 96.1 and put WGST on WWVA and WWGL.
http://www.radio-info.com/markets/atlanta
I would not be surprised if WCNN AM out billed WGCZ.
Another "Wild Card" is CC. Would they put Rush and the rest of the WGST talk on 96.1 or put WWVA on 96.1 and put WGST on WWVA and WWGL.
Attempts at all news in the 1980's by both WGST and WCNN failed on AM. What makes anyone think it could work in the Atlanta market on FM? WSB 750 AM and NOW 95.5 FM (I'm legally obligated to write it this way), is successful with the news/talk format. WGST might also find success with that format if they ever return to FM but not with all news.
Atlanta doesn't have the news appetite of Washington, New York, Chicago, or even Los Angeles or San Francisco. Going against WSB would be suicide, and I'm sure CBS knows that.
WGST will soon be on FM. ClearChannel has a translator for WGST - it will be at 92.3 mhz and will have coverage similar to the other translators.
It will be interesting to see if there is any new investment in the WGST operation (i.e. programming changes) in an attempt to capitalize on the new FM signal. In many parts of town the 92.3 signal will be about as good as WSBB 95.5(which is NOT a great signal in much of the metro area.)
Atlanta would support a WELL DONE all news format typical of other CBS markets. The other all news attempts were lame....running CNN audio was a really stupid idea and WGST was never REALLY an "All News" operation.
But WSB could run a 1 khz tone and still get a 6 share. No one is going to come to town, pull a "Merlin" and beat WSB.
It's going to take a really top notch effort......and that sounds expensive!
It will be interesting to see if there is any new investment in the WGST operation (i.e. programming changes) in an attempt to capitalize on the new FM signal. In many parts of town the 92.3 signal will be about as good as WSBB 95.5(which is NOT a great signal in much of the metro area.)
Atlanta would support a WELL DONE all news format typical of other CBS markets. The other all news attempts were lame....running CNN audio was a really stupid idea and WGST was never REALLY an "All News" operation.
But WSB could run a 1 khz tone and still get a 6 share. No one is going to come to town, pull a "Merlin" and beat WSB.
It's going to take a really top notch effort......and that sounds expensive!
Not happening. Period.
The CBS move in DC is primarily a function of DC's voracious appetite for news, and WTOP's way-over-the-market-size billing. When they take the money made out of WTOP, they have to line up the Brinks trucks. (Figuratively speaking, of course.)
CBS sees that $60 million WTOP bills a year, and figures that an FM all-newser in a good news hungry FM market could bill a lot...even a third of that billing would be a huge success to "All News 99.1".
The CBS move in DC is primarily a function of DC's voracious appetite for news, and WTOP's way-over-the-market-size billing. When they take the money made out of WTOP, they have to line up the Brinks trucks. (Figuratively speaking, of course.)
CBS sees that $60 million WTOP bills a year, and figures that an FM all-newser in a good news hungry FM market could bill a lot...even a third of that billing would be a huge success to "All News 99.1".
RoddyFreeman said:
Isn't the performance of Dave FM a slow death?
CBS has much bigger and deeper pockets than Cox. They could take a decade of losses in Atlanta (highly unlikely with the "V") and still not hurt the share price. It would also stop Cox from try to be number 1 with WSB. WSB will not have a huge signal advantage over every body else. In fact they might be "challenged". Putting WSB on FM was a boast for Cox but it also showed a weakness. Cox really doesn't have a good intown FM signal for WSB. The better programming argument has holes in it too. WGST has Rush the national "king" (ratings wise) of right wing talk. They should be challenging WSB instead they are 18 or 19th in the six plus beauty contest.
R
Rick Rose 2.0
Guest
Why do our TV stations put on more locally produced newscasts than many "news hungry" markets?
Channel 2 has 4:30-7a, noon-1, 4-7pm and 11-11:35p
Channel 5 has 4:30-10a, noon-1, 5-7pm, 10-11:30p
Channel 11 has 4:30-7a, noon-12:30, 6-6:30p, 11-11:35p
Channel 36 has 10-10:30p
Channel 46 has 5-7a, 9-10a, 4-6:30p, 11-11:35
so if we are not news heavy our tv stations are acting like we are.
WSB radio's news department keeps getting smaller and with no competition they have no reason to have a good size department. Its pretty much less than a minute of news while weather and traffic dominate the top of the hour newscasts. WSB is only news in AM drive.
On the TV side WSB ratings are higher than the other 3 news stations combined. WSB radios news department is cut to the bone so its vulnerable to a 24 hour intown FM competion.
Channel 2 has 4:30-7a, noon-1, 4-7pm and 11-11:35p
Channel 5 has 4:30-10a, noon-1, 5-7pm, 10-11:30p
Channel 11 has 4:30-7a, noon-12:30, 6-6:30p, 11-11:35p
Channel 36 has 10-10:30p
Channel 46 has 5-7a, 9-10a, 4-6:30p, 11-11:35
so if we are not news heavy our tv stations are acting like we are.
WSB radio's news department keeps getting smaller and with no competition they have no reason to have a good size department. Its pretty much less than a minute of news while weather and traffic dominate the top of the hour newscasts. WSB is only news in AM drive.
On the TV side WSB ratings are higher than the other 3 news stations combined. WSB radios news department is cut to the bone so its vulnerable to a 24 hour intown FM competion.
Rick Rose 2.0 said:
The number of TV newscasts means nothing. And I bet DC has that list trumped.
It's not DC vs. Atlanta here. DC is a unique market, and radio-wise, WTOP has been extracting mountains of cash out of that market far beyond DC's market size. CBS wants a piece of that.
And it has nothing to do with Atlanta.
secondchoice said:
Yes, Dave-FM could be dying a slow death, but that doesn't mean all-news is the only format they could flip to.
One thing to consider is that both WGST and WCNN have terrible night signals (WGST is 1000W, WCNN is 10k but highly directional south). All-news would depend on a lot of drivetime listening, something you won't get on an ATL AM station (besides WSB) during the winter because of weak night signals OTP and especially north. That would be the biggest stopper to WAOK flipping, and I am sure it contributes to WGST's long-term lack of success.fussbudget said:
On FM, there would be more of a chance. But the question remains, could you beat WSB?
I doubt Cox would blow up B98.5 or move them to make room for WSB-AM on an intown FM (although it would end this sotto voce "WSBB-FM Doraville" nonsense). Cox does have an app pending for moving 95.5 intown...the FCC seems to be sitting on it...I know that Cox had requested re-upping the waiver from the AJC co-ownership restrictions as part of this app, and also arguing that by keeping River and Kiss as far out as they are now, they still don't max out their ATL FM signal limits (River and Kiss would still just miss city-grading each other). Not sure how the FCC is feeling about this today. Maybe the Obama administration wants to lay low considering that Anne Cox Chambers is a big and longtime Dem supporter and contributor and PBO doesn't want to appear to be doling out favors.
CC could forget the translator and put WGST on 105.3, which would give them a decent signal over most of the metro area (the northeast quadrant would be weak in spots, especially farther out), and perhaps more importantly they would be strong where 95.5 is weak. I remember Art Sutton had a CP for upping the signal of 105.1 before it went dark...might CC want 105.1 back to fill in 105.3's hole?
Rick Rose 2.0 said:
It has nothing to do with news hunger. It has to do with inexpensive and high-yield programming. On the TV side, if a station airs news they keep the profits. Airing a syndicated show means the commercial profits are split. As you say, the budget gets smaller; not because they are losing money, they wan to maximize profits. If you watch the news programs, they are regurgitating the same information for every newscast. On the radio side, WSB airs the same 15 stories all morning. Sometimes they will change up the order.
DAVE-FM will never go 24-hour news. There is not enough local or state news to cover. Of course CBS would have to hire reporters, writers, anchors etc. Right now the station features seven on-air employees. I don't see CBS ponying up to hire 30+ to get this thing going.
I've heard the story about the AJC co-ownership thing, but I've also heard from reliable sources inside Cox that has nothing to do with the 95-5 move. The city of license has already been changed to Doraville so the AJC thing is not an issue.
What's holding up the CP is multiple stations (I think 3) outside of Atlanta have to be moved, and that's taking time.
Here is the app:RoddyFreeman said:
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/w...xt=25&appn=101209588&formid=301&fac_num=11710
the request for re-upping the AJC co-ownership waiver:
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101209588&qnum=5040©num=1&exhcnum=1
an exhibit regarding River and Kiss not city-grading each other:
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101209588&qnum=5040©num=1&exhcnum=3
the contingency with WHMA's move from 95.5/530W to 95.3/400W (no other contingent moves were listed with WSBB's app or WHMA's app):
https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101209588&qnum=5280©num=1&exhcnum=1
The AJC and River/Kiss issues might be moot, but Cox did see fit to address them in the app.
Well, I stand corrected.
Why not put an All-News station in Atlanta? Because for some reason, All-News and even Talk (except for WSB) does poorly in large Southern and Southwestern markets. All-News is #1 in Philadelphia and Washington, #2 in San Francisco and Boston, #3 in Chicago and Detroit and #4 in Seattle. In NYC, WCBS and WINS combined get nearly a nine share.
But the Sunbelt is different. In LA, KNX is #11. In Dallas, KRLD is only #25. (KRLD tried to be All-News 24/7 but they've cut back their All-News hours to weekdays 5am - 7pm, with Talk nights and weekends.) There are NO All-News stations in the other big Southern and Southwest cities. None in Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Tampa. Atlanta hasn't had an All-News station for decades. (Houston is getting an FM All-News station in a few weeks but who knows how it will fare?)
Even Conservative Talk does poorly in the South and Southwest. No Talk station makes the Top 10 in Dallas, Houston, Miami, Phoenix, San Antonio or Las Vegas. The only exception in a large market is WSB/WSBB-FM, which is consistantly the #2 station in Atlanta.
Rick Rose 2.0 asks an interesting question. Why do the TV stations in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami, Phoenix, etc. do so much news if News and Talk do so poorly on the radio? Someone says it pays well because TV stations generate it themselves. You don't have to pay syndication rights as you would running game shows or off-network sitcoms. But if the ratings weren't good, I'm sure they wouldn't do so much news, or they'd do their own Good Morning Dallas shows as opposed to actual newscasts. So this remains a mystery. Why do people in the Sunbelt watch TV news but only want music in the car?
I'm amazed that all large markets, Northern, Southern, whatever, don't have All-News stations. Even if you're not much into news, don't you want Traffic and Weather Together Every Ten Minutes Around The Clock, something you can't get from even a highly rated Talk station like WSB? WSB isn't going to interupt Rush, Clark Howard or Boortz six times an hour with traffic reports. If a tanker truck overturns on a major Interstate highway, you could be listening to WSB outside mornings and you'd drive right into a lengthy traffic jam.
CBS has recently put FM Sports stations on the air in Dallas, Philadelphia, DC, Boston, Detroit, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Most of them are doing quite well. All of Atlanta's Sports stations are currently on AM. My guess is WZGC would go Sports sooner than All-News.
Gregg
[email protected]
But the Sunbelt is different. In LA, KNX is #11. In Dallas, KRLD is only #25. (KRLD tried to be All-News 24/7 but they've cut back their All-News hours to weekdays 5am - 7pm, with Talk nights and weekends.) There are NO All-News stations in the other big Southern and Southwest cities. None in Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Tampa. Atlanta hasn't had an All-News station for decades. (Houston is getting an FM All-News station in a few weeks but who knows how it will fare?)
Even Conservative Talk does poorly in the South and Southwest. No Talk station makes the Top 10 in Dallas, Houston, Miami, Phoenix, San Antonio or Las Vegas. The only exception in a large market is WSB/WSBB-FM, which is consistantly the #2 station in Atlanta.
Rick Rose 2.0 asks an interesting question. Why do the TV stations in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Miami, Phoenix, etc. do so much news if News and Talk do so poorly on the radio? Someone says it pays well because TV stations generate it themselves. You don't have to pay syndication rights as you would running game shows or off-network sitcoms. But if the ratings weren't good, I'm sure they wouldn't do so much news, or they'd do their own Good Morning Dallas shows as opposed to actual newscasts. So this remains a mystery. Why do people in the Sunbelt watch TV news but only want music in the car?
I'm amazed that all large markets, Northern, Southern, whatever, don't have All-News stations. Even if you're not much into news, don't you want Traffic and Weather Together Every Ten Minutes Around The Clock, something you can't get from even a highly rated Talk station like WSB? WSB isn't going to interupt Rush, Clark Howard or Boortz six times an hour with traffic reports. If a tanker truck overturns on a major Interstate highway, you could be listening to WSB outside mornings and you'd drive right into a lengthy traffic jam.
CBS has recently put FM Sports stations on the air in Dallas, Philadelphia, DC, Boston, Detroit, Baltimore and Pittsburgh. Most of them are doing quite well. All of Atlanta's Sports stations are currently on AM. My guess is WZGC would go Sports sooner than All-News.
Gregg
[email protected]
I don't think there is a media group in Atlanta that could put together anything with the resources to even compete with what WSB has right now. And they are already too late because WSB beat them to it on FM.
Putting news on a blow torch like 92.9 would be a real waste of a good signal.
Putting news on a blow torch like 92.9 would be a real waste of a good signal.
RoddyFreeman said:
My favorite part:
"Cox’s continued ownership of WBTS(FM) and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution will not
increase Cox’s market share in any relevant product market. Furthermore, WBTS(FM) and the
Atlanta Journal-Constitution do not compete in the same demographic market. For example,
WBTS(FM) plays top-forty music and is most popular among teenage girls."
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