As of today there is only one HD radio on the market for $300. I live in New York City where there are 5 Clear Channel HD stations and 2 CBS stations with HD stations. Presently the HD stations are essentially Internet streams. If I can get my local stations on the Internet plus HD radio streams from other markets on my computer, why should I buy an HD radio? The programming needs a lot of work. New York City has not had a country music radio station since 1996 so the Country station at WKTU-HD2 is quite welcome. As we all know the oldies station on WCBS-FM was killed last June. The WCBS-FM-HD2 is just a shadow of a heritage station. It is not the same without the personalities who were let go last June. I am not impressed with WAXQ-HD2 since I cannot see any difference between that and the parent station. Likewise, WLTW-HD2 is essentially a subset of the parent station playing lite oldies. Since, there are few if any commercials on the HD2 stations Clear Channel and other companies are losing money at the present time. The radio enthusiasts who read this folder may pay big bucks for an HD radio. However, the prices will have to go down to the $100-$150 range before the average radio listener will by an HD radio. I really think there should be formats on HD-2 stations not currently heard on analog radio. Why is WNEW rebroadcasting WINS when it can go back to the heritage of the WNEW calls and play standards? HD Radio will succeed only if it can appeal to the average listener and bring in advertising revenue. Understandably the technology is brand new, but it must become attractive to the listener, station owners, and advertisers.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by BruceS8852 on 03/01/06 02:31 AM.</FONT></P>
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Will HD Radio Succeed?
- Thread starter BruceS8852
- Start date
R
RadioDoc
Guest
> As of today there is only one HD radio on the market for
> $300. I live in New York City where there are 5 Clear
> Channel HD stations and 2 CBS stations with HD stations.
> Presently the HD stations are essentially Internet streams.
> If I can get my local stations on the Internet plus HD radio
> streams from other markets on my computer, why should I buy
> an HD radio? The programming needs a lot of work. New York
> City has not had a country music radio station since 1996 so
> the Country station at WKTU-HD2 is quite welcome. As we all
> know the oldies station on WCBS-FM was killed last June.
> The WCBS-FM-HD2 is just a shadow of a heritage station. It
> is not the same without the personalities who were let go
> last June. I am not impressed with WAXQ-HD2 since I cannot
> see any difference between that and the parent station.
> Likewise, WLTW-HD2 is essentially a subset of the parent
> station playing lite oldies. Since, there are few if any
> commercials on the HD2 stations Clear Channel and other
> companies are losing money at the present time. The radio
> enthusiasts who read this folder may pay big bucks for an HD
> radio. However, the prices will have to go down to the
> $100-$150 range before the average radio listener will by an
> HD radio. I really think there should be formats on HD-2
> stations not currently heard on analog radio. Why is WNEW
> rebroadcasting WINS when it can go back to the heritage of
> the WNEW calls and play standards? HD Radio will succeed
> only if it can appeal to the average listener and bring in
> advertising revenue. Understandably the technology is brand
> new, but it must become attractive to the listener, station
> owners, and advertisers.
>
Was there a question there?
You ask: Will HD Radio succeed?
The answer: Maybe. I gurantee you that nobody here knows for sure. What is reality today could be quite different than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> $300. I live in New York City where there are 5 Clear
> Channel HD stations and 2 CBS stations with HD stations.
> Presently the HD stations are essentially Internet streams.
> If I can get my local stations on the Internet plus HD radio
> streams from other markets on my computer, why should I buy
> an HD radio? The programming needs a lot of work. New York
> City has not had a country music radio station since 1996 so
> the Country station at WKTU-HD2 is quite welcome. As we all
> know the oldies station on WCBS-FM was killed last June.
> The WCBS-FM-HD2 is just a shadow of a heritage station. It
> is not the same without the personalities who were let go
> last June. I am not impressed with WAXQ-HD2 since I cannot
> see any difference between that and the parent station.
> Likewise, WLTW-HD2 is essentially a subset of the parent
> station playing lite oldies. Since, there are few if any
> commercials on the HD2 stations Clear Channel and other
> companies are losing money at the present time. The radio
> enthusiasts who read this folder may pay big bucks for an HD
> radio. However, the prices will have to go down to the
> $100-$150 range before the average radio listener will by an
> HD radio. I really think there should be formats on HD-2
> stations not currently heard on analog radio. Why is WNEW
> rebroadcasting WINS when it can go back to the heritage of
> the WNEW calls and play standards? HD Radio will succeed
> only if it can appeal to the average listener and bring in
> advertising revenue. Understandably the technology is brand
> new, but it must become attractive to the listener, station
> owners, and advertisers.
>
Was there a question there?
You ask: Will HD Radio succeed?
The answer: Maybe. I gurantee you that nobody here knows for sure. What is reality today could be quite different than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.<P ID="signature">______________
</P>
> The answer: Maybe. I gurantee you that nobody here knows
> for sure. What is reality today could be quite different
> than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or
> it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.
>
Look at what didn't happen with AM Stereo. It was a complete flop
> for sure. What is reality today could be quite different
> than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or
> it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.
>
Look at what didn't happen with AM Stereo. It was a complete flop
W
westlife
Guest
> Look at what didn't happen with AM Stereo. It was a
> complete flop
There are still many times more AM Stereo receivers in the marketplace than HD Radio receivers. Just like RDS, it is a solidly established technology which can quickly go from almost-forgotten to prominent status with enough of a push behind it. The big corporate stations may current be placing their bets on HD Radio, but quite a few stations are staying committed to AM Stereo.
Another important point is that AM Stereo is a worldwide technology, while HD Radio is currently limited to the USA (no, not even Canada is using it). AM Stereo is quite popular in Japan, too, while HD Radio is unknown there... and since the major electronics manufacturers like to release products for the Japanese domestic market first before introducing them to the USA, HD Radio is at a serious disadvantage due to its presence only in America.
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
> complete flop
There are still many times more AM Stereo receivers in the marketplace than HD Radio receivers. Just like RDS, it is a solidly established technology which can quickly go from almost-forgotten to prominent status with enough of a push behind it. The big corporate stations may current be placing their bets on HD Radio, but quite a few stations are staying committed to AM Stereo.
Another important point is that AM Stereo is a worldwide technology, while HD Radio is currently limited to the USA (no, not even Canada is using it). AM Stereo is quite popular in Japan, too, while HD Radio is unknown there... and since the major electronics manufacturers like to release products for the Japanese domestic market first before introducing them to the USA, HD Radio is at a serious disadvantage due to its presence only in America.
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
J
JasonW
Guest
AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
Here's one way that it (the promotion of AM Stereo) could be done. Approach the smaller AM radio station network companies and independent AM radio station owners with this argument:
"The listener couldn't care less whether their radio is analog or digital--they only care that your radio station broadcasts programming they want to hear and that the audio sounds clear and crisp. AM Stereo will enable your listeners to enjoy the full "as if you are there" spatial dimension of your music that FM listeners enjoy [yes, there are still *AM* music stations], while your signal will remain 100% compatible with the monaural AM receivers in your market. It also adds this spatial audio dimension to outdoor events such as ball games, races, and all other kinds of remote broadcasts. AM Stereo receivers for the home, car, and 'on the go' portable listening are readily available at affordable prices." -- JasonW
> > Look at what didn't happen with AM Stereo. It was a
> > complete flop
>
> There are still many times more AM Stereo receivers in the
> marketplace than HD Radio receivers. Just like RDS, it is a
> solidly established technology which can quickly go from
> almost-forgotten to prominent status with enough of a push
> behind it. The big corporate stations may current be
> placing their bets on HD Radio, but quite a few stations are
> staying committed to AM Stereo.
>
> Another important point is that AM Stereo is a worldwide
> technology, while HD Radio is currently limited to the USA
> (no, not even Canada is using it). AM Stereo is quite
> popular in Japan, too, while HD Radio is unknown there...
> and since the major electronics manufacturers like to
> release products for the Japanese domestic market first
> before introducing them to the USA, HD Radio is at a serious
> disadvantage due to its presence only in America.
>
Here's one way that it (the promotion of AM Stereo) could be done. Approach the smaller AM radio station network companies and independent AM radio station owners with this argument:
"The listener couldn't care less whether their radio is analog or digital--they only care that your radio station broadcasts programming they want to hear and that the audio sounds clear and crisp. AM Stereo will enable your listeners to enjoy the full "as if you are there" spatial dimension of your music that FM listeners enjoy [yes, there are still *AM* music stations], while your signal will remain 100% compatible with the monaural AM receivers in your market. It also adds this spatial audio dimension to outdoor events such as ball games, races, and all other kinds of remote broadcasts. AM Stereo receivers for the home, car, and 'on the go' portable listening are readily available at affordable prices." -- JasonW
> > Look at what didn't happen with AM Stereo. It was a
> > complete flop
>
> There are still many times more AM Stereo receivers in the
> marketplace than HD Radio receivers. Just like RDS, it is a
> solidly established technology which can quickly go from
> almost-forgotten to prominent status with enough of a push
> behind it. The big corporate stations may current be
> placing their bets on HD Radio, but quite a few stations are
> staying committed to AM Stereo.
>
> Another important point is that AM Stereo is a worldwide
> technology, while HD Radio is currently limited to the USA
> (no, not even Canada is using it). AM Stereo is quite
> popular in Japan, too, while HD Radio is unknown there...
> and since the major electronics manufacturers like to
> release products for the Japanese domestic market first
> before introducing them to the USA, HD Radio is at a serious
> disadvantage due to its presence only in America.
>
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
Jason,
What about this.
Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine) with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers all the time.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>
Jason,
What about this.
Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine) with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers all the time.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>
D
DoogieDown
Guest
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
The first generation of Visteon (Ford OEM) HD car radios had both C-QUAM and HD. But they didn't have HD sidechannels on FM. Maybe this year's Visteon line STILL has both, but I don't know that.
I've been told the HD Radio set-up at the transmitter site doesn't allow for C-QUAM to coexist with it for night broadcasts.
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
The first generation of Visteon (Ford OEM) HD car radios had both C-QUAM and HD. But they didn't have HD sidechannels on FM. Maybe this year's Visteon line STILL has both, but I don't know that.
I've been told the HD Radio set-up at the transmitter site doesn't allow for C-QUAM to coexist with it for night broadcasts.
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
>
> I've been told the HD Radio set-up at the transmitter site
> doesn't allow for C-QUAM to coexist with it for night
> broadcasts.
>
Not at the same time, but they should be able to switch back and forth; one at a time, either or.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>
>
> I've been told the HD Radio set-up at the transmitter site
> doesn't allow for C-QUAM to coexist with it for night
> broadcasts.
>
Not at the same time, but they should be able to switch back and forth; one at a time, either or.<P ID="signature">______________
Proud 2 B a pioneering satellite radio subs¢riber
Ai4i is always on the trailing edge of technology
______________</P>
D
dbdigital
Guest
> > As of today there is only one HD radio on the market for
> > $300. I live in New York City where there are 5 Clear
> > Channel HD stations and 2 CBS stations with HD stations.
> > Presently the HD stations are essentially Internet
> streams.
> > If I can get my local stations on the Internet plus HD
> radio
> > streams from other markets on my computer, why should I
> buy
> > an HD radio? The programming needs a lot of work. New
> York
> > City has not had a country music radio station since 1996
> so
> > the Country station at WKTU-HD2 is quite welcome. As we
> all
> > know the oldies station on WCBS-FM was killed last June.
> > The WCBS-FM-HD2 is just a shadow of a heritage station.
> It
> > is not the same without the personalities who were let go
> > last June. I am not impressed with WAXQ-HD2 since I
> cannot
> > see any difference between that and the parent station.
> > Likewise, WLTW-HD2 is essentially a subset of the parent
> > station playing lite oldies. Since, there are few if any
> > commercials on the HD2 stations Clear Channel and other
> > companies are losing money at the present time. The radio
>
> > enthusiasts who read this folder may pay big bucks for an
> HD
> > radio. However, the prices will have to go down to the
> > $100-$150 range before the average radio listener will by
> an
> > HD radio. I really think there should be formats on HD-2
> > stations not currently heard on analog radio. Why is WNEW
>
> > rebroadcasting WINS when it can go back to the heritage of
>
> > the WNEW calls and play standards? HD Radio will succeed
> > only if it can appeal to the average listener and bring in
>
> > advertising revenue. Understandably the technology is
> brand
> > new, but it must become attractive to the listener,
> station
> > owners, and advertisers.
> >
>
> Was there a question there?
>
> You ask: Will HD Radio succeed?
>
> The answer: Maybe. I gurantee you that nobody here knows
> for sure. What is reality today could be quite different
> than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or
> it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.
>
This is true. But unless the government slams down its iron palm and mandates a cut off date for analog radio, I don't see HD radio going anywhere.
I mean, where is the incentive buy an HD radio? It isn't like DTV where, thanks to Congress and the FCC, consumers are now faced with having to buy an HDTV set or some kind of set top box before 2009.
The only buzz I'm hearing about HD radio is from the technology itself, there's certainly been no buzz from consumers about it.
And even if the FCC does mandate a cut off date for analog radio, it will take years for it to happen. By that time, miniature wi-fi products will be here along the supporting infrastructure for them thereby conveniently opening up a whole world of internet radio listening, making HD radio an also-ran and irrelevant.
But I feel the FCC really painted itself into a corner by backing IBOC. While it may work OK for FM, it has been a disaster for AM and many small market AM broadcasters have already said that they are not going IBOC because of the costs. So now what? Mandate IBOC for FM but CAM-D or some other technology for AM? Manufacturers of consumer audio equipment would love that and all of the early adopters will be left out in the cold...once again.
HD radio is a classic case of too little, too late.
db
> > $300. I live in New York City where there are 5 Clear
> > Channel HD stations and 2 CBS stations with HD stations.
> > Presently the HD stations are essentially Internet
> streams.
> > If I can get my local stations on the Internet plus HD
> radio
> > streams from other markets on my computer, why should I
> buy
> > an HD radio? The programming needs a lot of work. New
> York
> > City has not had a country music radio station since 1996
> so
> > the Country station at WKTU-HD2 is quite welcome. As we
> all
> > know the oldies station on WCBS-FM was killed last June.
> > The WCBS-FM-HD2 is just a shadow of a heritage station.
> It
> > is not the same without the personalities who were let go
> > last June. I am not impressed with WAXQ-HD2 since I
> cannot
> > see any difference between that and the parent station.
> > Likewise, WLTW-HD2 is essentially a subset of the parent
> > station playing lite oldies. Since, there are few if any
> > commercials on the HD2 stations Clear Channel and other
> > companies are losing money at the present time. The radio
>
> > enthusiasts who read this folder may pay big bucks for an
> HD
> > radio. However, the prices will have to go down to the
> > $100-$150 range before the average radio listener will by
> an
> > HD radio. I really think there should be formats on HD-2
> > stations not currently heard on analog radio. Why is WNEW
>
> > rebroadcasting WINS when it can go back to the heritage of
>
> > the WNEW calls and play standards? HD Radio will succeed
> > only if it can appeal to the average listener and bring in
>
> > advertising revenue. Understandably the technology is
> brand
> > new, but it must become attractive to the listener,
> station
> > owners, and advertisers.
> >
>
> Was there a question there?
>
> You ask: Will HD Radio succeed?
>
> The answer: Maybe. I gurantee you that nobody here knows
> for sure. What is reality today could be quite different
> than the reality five years from now. HD could be huge, or
> it could be gone. Truth is that we'll have to wait and see.
>
This is true. But unless the government slams down its iron palm and mandates a cut off date for analog radio, I don't see HD radio going anywhere.
I mean, where is the incentive buy an HD radio? It isn't like DTV where, thanks to Congress and the FCC, consumers are now faced with having to buy an HDTV set or some kind of set top box before 2009.
The only buzz I'm hearing about HD radio is from the technology itself, there's certainly been no buzz from consumers about it.
And even if the FCC does mandate a cut off date for analog radio, it will take years for it to happen. By that time, miniature wi-fi products will be here along the supporting infrastructure for them thereby conveniently opening up a whole world of internet radio listening, making HD radio an also-ran and irrelevant.
But I feel the FCC really painted itself into a corner by backing IBOC. While it may work OK for FM, it has been a disaster for AM and many small market AM broadcasters have already said that they are not going IBOC because of the costs. So now what? Mandate IBOC for FM but CAM-D or some other technology for AM? Manufacturers of consumer audio equipment would love that and all of the early adopters will be left out in the cold...once again.
HD radio is a classic case of too little, too late.
db
W
westlife
Guest
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
If they ever actually make it into production, Visteon (OEM radio manufacturer for Ford Motor Co.) will have radios that are exactly that: with support for both HD Radio and hi-fi C-Quam AM Stereo. After making some prototypes in 2003 for testing use by IBOC stations, Visteon has had this receiver design on the shelf since then, while Ford keeps delaying the introduction of HD Radio in their vehicles. First they said it would be in the 2004 models, then in the 2005 models, and most recently they said it would be in the 2006 models but so far it still hasn't appeared yet. So, many of Visteon's current radios, as found in Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles, receive C-Quam AM Stereo, but none currently receive HD Radio.
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
If they ever actually make it into production, Visteon (OEM radio manufacturer for Ford Motor Co.) will have radios that are exactly that: with support for both HD Radio and hi-fi C-Quam AM Stereo. After making some prototypes in 2003 for testing use by IBOC stations, Visteon has had this receiver design on the shelf since then, while Ford keeps delaying the introduction of HD Radio in their vehicles. First they said it would be in the 2004 models, then in the 2005 models, and most recently they said it would be in the 2006 models but so far it still hasn't appeared yet. So, many of Visteon's current radios, as found in Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles, receive C-Quam AM Stereo, but none currently receive HD Radio.
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
W
westlife
Guest
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
> Not at the same time, but they should be able to switch back
> and forth; one at a time, either or.
Also, some stations use entirely separate transmitter sites for their daytime and nighttime signals. In that case it's a piece of cake to set up IBUZ at the daytime site and AM Stereo at the nighttime site. (But if IBUZ is ever approved for nighttime use, these stations will have to pay for two IBUZ hash generators... at $30,000+ each, that's a hefty chunk of change!)
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
> Not at the same time, but they should be able to switch back
> and forth; one at a time, either or.
Also, some stations use entirely separate transmitter sites for their daytime and nighttime signals. In that case it's a piece of cake to set up IBUZ at the daytime site and AM Stereo at the nighttime site. (But if IBUZ is ever approved for nighttime use, these stations will have to pay for two IBUZ hash generators... at $30,000+ each, that's a hefty chunk of change!)
<P ID="signature">______________
It's a common mistake to not use punctuation in its proper form.
<a target="_blank" href=http://www.cgl.uwaterloo.ca/~csk/its.html>Be kind to your friend, the apostrophe.</a></P>
J
JasonW
Guest
Re: AM Stereo promotion (Re: Will HD Radio Succeed?)
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
From a technical point of view, that would work.
If I were iBiquity, though, I would be nervous about AM stations running AM HD during the day and switching to AM Stereo at sunset. Their listeners likely wouldn't notice any dramatic difference in audio quality. The station owners, however, *would* notice the dramatic difference in cost between a C-QUAM AM Stereo transmitter (a one-time purchase cost) and buying an AM HD transmitter *and* paying the continuing AM HD costs for the IBOC licensing fees. -- JasonW
> Jason,
> What about this.
> Since we don't know if HD will ever be allowed on AM at
> night, why not include CQAM (I still prefer Kahn-Hazletine)
> with HD recievers. The stations could switch between CQAM
> and HD all they want and the audio-insensitive listeners
> would be glad to have stereo coming out their car speakers
> all the time.
From a technical point of view, that would work.
If I were iBiquity, though, I would be nervous about AM stations running AM HD during the day and switching to AM Stereo at sunset. Their listeners likely wouldn't notice any dramatic difference in audio quality. The station owners, however, *would* notice the dramatic difference in cost between a C-QUAM AM Stereo transmitter (a one-time purchase cost) and buying an AM HD transmitter *and* paying the continuing AM HD costs for the IBOC licensing fees. -- JasonW
- Status