Will it be possible for radios to pick up TV audio after Feb/09?

[brian65]

I think TV coverage of local disasters and weather events is much more reliable than AM radio as it now exists.

I have a battery operated TV and a radio which picks up TV 2-13, which are very helpful.

Any ideas about whether there will be cheap portable units that will receive the new digital TV audio?

Thanks

 

[PTBoardOp94]

It is not likely. The current generation of digital tuners require more power than is practical in a portable unit.

 

[boiseengineer]

Some of the "converter" boxes take less than an amp. Still quite a bit of power.

 

[brian65]

That's sad.

I hope there's a revolution when they pull the analog plug.

I would think there would be a market for an audio only receiver..portable.

Wait and see I guess.

 

[DTV-Chief]

Winegard offers a battery operated DTV converter box requiring 6 (I think) D cells which you could link to your 2-13 portable and tune to ch. 3 but remember that DTV receivers demand a better antenna for reliable reception (because not as forgiving to multipath as was analog reception). Seems workable but clunky.

Not sure if the Winegard box has RCA audio output jacks so you could use a battery powered amplified loudspeaker and skip using the portable radio entirely.

 

[brian65]

That does sound a bit clunky, but its something.

Maybe there will be a demand and one will be developed.

Is the new DTV signal easier to pick up if you're only wanting the audio portion? Or is it maybe all or nothing?

 

[gunterm]

It is not likely. The current generation of digital tuners require more power than is practical in a portable unit.

That's weird, because the same problem exists with HD Radio right now. I don't get why digital transmission eats more juice, it can't be the MPEG2 decoding chips because DVD players have those and they're fine, and I assume the radio electronics are about the same since they use identical frequencies right?

 

[brian65]

I just received a response from a national electronic supplier:

"Currently, there is not a digital chip that has been designed for use in a portable radio. We are working to find a solution, unfortunately it might be a year or so before we are able to do so."

For what its worth.

 

[Tom Wells]

Even when such a chip is available there is still the all-or-nothing factor of digital reception.
I would be suprised if the audio were seperately encoded and/or recoverable.
I think you have to get the whole thing to get the audio decoded.
Such is the drawback of a digital "anything".
I'd like to see some kind of analog fallback, or at least analog audio still provided within the DTV signal.

 

[EDwalker]

I think TV coverage of local disasters and weather events is much more reliable than AM radio as it now exists.

I have a battery operated TV and a radio which picks up TV 2-13, which are very helpful.

Any ideas about whether there will be cheap portable units that will receive the new digital TV audio?

Thanks

Existing analog tuners will be able to pick up those translator and low-power TVs that have not elected to switch to digital (they can, but are not required; full-power TVs are required).

I would expect a new breed of radios with digital tuners to be manufactured; haven't seen one yet, however.

 

[RFLA]

There was a debate somewheres on here recently on if full power tv stations will cut deals with or purchase LPTVs and air the full power tv station over the LPTV station during emergencies or just all the time. Nothing is said on what can be aired on those LPTVs

I think the LPTV stations got off light (about not having to move to digital) as many locals in the west use small translators for local affliates (Alaska actually has a network of them for rural Alaskans) and the costs would be out of sight and unable to happen for a lot of these associations

And from what I know, it will be a all or nothing as isn't the audio embedded in with the dtv signal?

 

[brian65]

.....another drawback to creating a portable unit would be, as mentioned before, the larger antenna required.

Hopefully, they might manufacture one with an antenna 'as large as possible' but include a port for a simple larger external one.

I'm about 20-25 miles from the current dig transmitter (I suppose) but can receive the major (abc/nbc/cbs/fox) local HD signals ok with just cheap rabbit ears. You would think there would be a market for audio only receivers requiring a similar configuration.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Even when such a chip is available there is still the all-or-nothing factor of digital reception.
I would be suprised if the audio were seperately encoded and/or recoverable.
I think you have to get the whole thing to get the audio decoded.
Such is the drawback of a digital "anything".
I'd like to see some kind of analog fallback, or at least analog audio still provided within the DTV signal.

HERE, HERE! (or should that be HEAR, HEAR?). The most unfortunate feature of over-the-air DTV is the audio stream, which almost always drops out before the picture becomes impaired. The geniuses who designed the 8-VSB system either thought that nobody would use the over-the-air signal because everyone would have cable (I don't think direct satellite TV had been invented when the US over-the-air DTV system was designed) or the designers simply didn't care about getting it right. You don't need to be very bright to realize that a viewer or listener can follow the content of most any TV program if the picture disappears but the audio remains available. When the DTV signal becomes impaired, the audio stream should have been given priority over the picture, but that's not the way the system was designed and, in all probability, it is now too late to fix the damned system. Adding a fallback analog-audio stream might be the most straightforward fix AND it would make possible mobile reception of the audio as well.

Of course, that approach would not address the problem of continued use of radios with TV-audio capability after February of next year. Most TV stations will be using UHF frequencies. A few will used VHF Channels 7-13, and hardly any will use Channels 2-6. So even if an analog-fallback stream were provided, the existing radios would, in the majority of cases, be unable to receive it.

 

[speakerman]

I have a couple decent Proscan TVs I don't want to toss yet. Anybody have any comments whether there are any standouts among the converter boxes available on the market.

 

[kenglish]

It's not a "design flaw" that makes the audio a little more suceptible to dropouts than the video. It's the fact that audio, unlike the video that repeats on a frame by frame basis, has no "predictability". That means it doesn't have the luxury of all that error correction that video has.
Also, just think of audio dropouts as an "early warning" that your signal is weak, and near the dreaded "digital cliff".

Like the (Digital) Phone commercial says, "Kin ya' hear me yet?" ;D

 

[DanStrassberg]

It's not a "design flaw" that makes the audio a little more suceptible to dropouts than the video. It's the fact that audio, unlike the video that repeats on a frame by frame basis, has no "predictability". That means it doesn't have the luxury of all that error correction that video has.

Couldn't the audio stream have reserved a larger percentage of bits for error correction? Wouldn't that have improved the reliability?

 

[brian65]

I have a couple decent Proscan TVs I don't want to toss yet. Anybody have any comments whether there are any standouts among the converter boxes available on the market.

I can't say about any particular brands/models as I've only considered what's been available at Wal Mart, Best Buy, and Radio Shack. From what I've seen of these 3 or so models, the things to look for are:

1. Make sure the remote has a volume control and a separate TV power on/off button. Else you'll need two remotes to watch the way your used to watching.

2. Apparently, some models offer better 'upcoming programming info' than others, ie, what's on that, or possibly other, channels in the upcoming hour/hours. Some only show 'next show', which isn't good.

3. Some urban locales might want to be sure the unit receives analog only signals from the stations which don't have to switch to digital. It wasn't a concern of mine though, so I didn't bother checking.

As far as I now understand, the Radio Shack unit seems best, and the cheaper Wal Mart unit the worst.

If your buying one locally, be sure to open the box and look closely at the remote. Look for specific labeling of a volume and TV power on/off buttons and don't assume what looks like one actually is one.

I didn't want to get too far off the audio reception topic, but I wish I would have known these few things before I ran out and bought units. Of course, if you buy from the internet, you'll find better units at the same cheap prices. Wikipedia has a good site comparing units and their features.

 

[brian65]

I have a couple decent Proscan TVs I don't want to toss yet. Anybody have any comments whether there are any standouts among the converter boxes available on the market.

Here is the link to the Wikipedia page comparing the features of many units. Be sure to know what each of the features they are comparing actually do though. Some features might be very useful to some people but not to others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_CECB_units

 

[gr8oldies]

Sounds like radio may just need to start doing emergency coverage again. There won't be cheapie battery powered TVs or audio-only tuners.

 

[Bob_Hudson]

Sounds like radio may just need to start doing emergency coverage again. There won't be cheapie battery powered TVs or audio-only tuners.

Having spent four years in Kansas, where the weather radio emergency alarm goes off with, well, alarming frequency, I see the DTV changeover as hampering the ability of the public to get live info during emergencies. I still think DTV is a solution in search of a problem.