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Will Local Clients Flee Limbaugh

Mark_Giardina said:
The fact that people are still commenting about this story proves, at least in my mind, that Limbaugh comes out on top. Why? Just because the curious non-listener to his show will tune in just to hear what other outrageous thing comes out of his mouth.

Another thing: In a few weeks people will forget the name of the young lady while Mr. Limbaugh, despite some of his sponsors and affiliates bailing on him, will continue to collect his multi-million dollar salary.

So in the long run who do you think is the winner here?

I don't buy it. All that will happen is that maybe a handful of non-listeners will tune in for a few days before he and they turn each other off for good. It won't do a thing to stem the inexorable decline that Bob1370 writes about. Limbaugh will still do fine collecting on the inflated contract that Premiere probably wishes it had not locked itself into. It's Premiere that will take a hit, and deservedly so.
 
Yeah, I'm with El Marko. This is a bump in the road for Rush. Fluke is in the express lane to oblivion with all of her faked outrage. In months - not years - she will be a footnote in media history alongside "Anita Hill." When Fluke has served her purpose to the lefty media, all of her opportunistic furry friends like Wasserman-Schultz will discard her a la Cindy Sheehan. And Rush will still be collecting on his "inflated contract" and generating revenue for himself and his syndicator. Know why? Because he can do it, and he's worth it.

Don't know if you noticed. Know who the big loser here is? Carbonite, the sponsor with the Cream-O-Wheat spine who threw Rush under the bus. Their stock is off more than 20% since dumping the Limbaugh show.

Such is the cost of grandstand-pandering to try to capitalize on purely political controversy.
 
Savage said:
In months - not years - she will be a footnote in media history alongside "Anita Hill." When Fluke has served her purpose to the lefty media, all of her opportunistic furry friends like Wasserman-Schultz will discard her a la Cindy Sheehan.

It's funny you that invoke the names of even more women mistreated by the sanctimonious right, the imcredible hypocrites that they are, a la Rush Limbaugh.
 
Savage said:
why? Because he can do it, and he's worth it.

In other words, might makes right.

Straight out of the gospel according to Ayn Rand, that fierce defender of the individual against all things governmental - who, by the way, lived out her later years on Medicare and Social Security.
 
Don't know if you noticed. Know who the big loser here is? Carbonite, the sponsor with the Cream-O-Wheat spine who threw Rush under the bus. Their stock is off more than 20% since dumping the Limbaugh show.
It should be noted that Carbonite wasn't the only stock to slide on Tuesday, all markets were down significantly at the close.

Comparing Fluke to Hill is a stretch. To begin with, Anita Hill was an attorney, admitted to the bar. She worked for Clarence Thomas, who'd been nominated to fill a vacancy on the Supreme Court. Hill could hardly have been called a liberal, having quite a pedigree; a distinguished education and having worked for Thomas, who was at the time of his nomination the Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights. It was Clarence Thomas who played the victim in hearings before the Senate Confirmation Committee when he used the "high tech lynching" line to challenge his critics.

Fluke is a law student. There's no "he said/she said" in her case. There is only hard, factual evidence, that being Limbaugh's statements about Fluke and acknowledging that he made those comments in two successive shows. Millions of listeners heard those comments and they were recorded by some. Smoking gun.

Limbaugh at first apologized (lamely.) Then Monday, he offered further apologies on three occasions in one show. He admitted using the words "slut" and "prostitute. Said Rush, “I chose the wrong words… my choice of words was not the best… I sincerely apologize to Ms. Fluke for the insulting word choices.” You wonder if Romney (he of Bain-Clear Channel-Premier) called Rush and had a "come to Jesus" conversation with him.

El Rushbo also claimed Fluke must be having plentiful sex. Limbaugh commanded Fluke to post the encounters he envisioned her having on the Internet because he wanted to see them. That may have been the most egregious comment, not only because of what was said, but what was implied. Imagine Rush charging your daughter with having constant sex and ordering her to post videos on the 'net. Who the frack is this guy?!

Millions of listeners heard Limbaugh's words and yet, while democrats and republicans, liberals and conservatives denounced Limbaugh, some people for whatever reason, took issue with Fluke and declared Limbaugh the victim of "the liberal media." Bizarro World.

An estimated 25+ companies have cancelled active flights, future flights or proposed flights on Limbaugh's show. To some, a client who discontinues sponsorship may seem spineless; to others, it's a statement of ethics and purpose. If the sponsor knows that cancelling commercials may result in a backlash, cancellation might even be considered noble.

I'd venture this will be more than a speed bump or pothole for Rush. There are millions of people who've said "enough is enough," and many of those are true Eisenhower Conservatives who feel the Republican party has been hi-jacked and so firmly held hostage by the far right that Nixon and St. Ronald wouldn't recognize it.

Defenders of Limbaugh might want to consider how they might respond if Limbaugh called their wives, girlfriends or daughters a "slut" or "prostitute." To small market operators, how would local clients respond if a celebrated local talker called an average citizen, say a woman from Livonia or Bergen, a "slut" and "prostitute?" Apologies would no doubt be plentiful and very likely more than a few local clients would walk away from the station. Would that too be a bump in the road?

Now comes the question of Fluke suing Limbaugh for slander. I am not an attorney, nor have I played one on TV, radio, message boards or my high school play, "To Kill A Mockingbird." Fluke has every right to sue Limbaugh, as would you or I, if our character and reputation were defamed. Fluke isn't a celebrity. She's a private citizen. Celebrities can be ridiculed without claim to slander, but only to an extent. There are lines that cannot be crossed.

Apologies by the perpetrator can help side-step a lawsuit, but even three may not mitigate the damage done to Fluke. In fact, some would say the apologies reinforce her standing should she sue Limbaugh. Some attorneys (a few of them genuine conservatives) have suggested that Fluke should sue Limbaugh for two reasons. One, they're sick and tired of good Republicans and a large measure of the party being forced to cow-tow to a guy who never graduated from even a two year college. Second, if nothing more, they'd like to put him through the grueling process of being deposed by a competent, aggressive attorney. (We can only hope Gloria Allred is too busy with her many other clients.) I'm told depositions are sometimes more grueling than trials. Such an action, more than judgment for punitive damages, would be justice served, especially if Fluke's parents are permitted to sit in on the deposition. I am told in most cases, such a sitting isn't permitted.

Three words, Mr. Limbaugh: "Squirm baby, squirm."
 
Limbaugh does definitely depend on the kindness of a stranger (Ms. Fluke) who he has shown no kindness at all, even in his "apology" which earlier this week was "amplified" by a gratuitous statement about "overeducated young white women" who he says should shut up and know their place. She is a private citizen and not a celebrity, and therefore has a lot easier case to make to score a big payday for slander, as one of Philadelphia's top litigators remarked in an interview this week. She has to prove only reckless disregard for truth--which Limbaugh has virtually conceded--and does not have to meet the higher standard of malicious intent that Sullivan Vs. New York Times imposed in the case of a public figure.

What may be more interesting to see, is who becomes the target. The person who utters any allegedly slanderous statement is obviously a principal defendant but that's only where it starts--the organization which publishes and distributes it can be liable as well, and in this case that means Premiere Networks and its parent company, Clear Channel. It could spread even further, to target the stations which carried the broadcast in question since (as the FCC likes to remind us when it hands out fines) the station licensees are ultimately responsible for anything they air, whether or not they originate it. Her lawyers could decide to target all Clear Channel-owned stations airing Limbaugh, or even every station affiliated with Premiere and carrying the show.
 
Haw, haw, haw! :D Nothing like whacking a hornet's nest first thing in the morning!

Yeah, Rush said something he probably shouldn't have. I would characterize it as "an unguarded moment." And while you guys are stoking the indignation, you might want to reserve a little for:

Keith Olbermann. Ed Schultz. Bill Maher. Mike Taibbi (his comments about Michelle Malkin were so incredibly vile, explicitly racist/sexist and objectively obscene, they would make Rush's calling Fluke a "slut" sound like a compliment. If I quoted them here, the moderator would delete them. We're talking about a left-wing spokesman who actually wrote a piece about the late Andrew Breitbart called "Death Of A ******" and expressed glee at his death....within 48 hours of his passing.)

And while Michelle Malkin, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Condoleeza Rice, Carrie Prejean, Sarah Palin and many other strong conservative females have had the left make public comments lewdly denigrating them sexually and morally in the most graphic terms, none of them got cuddly poor-baby phone calls from the Commander-In-Chief. Laura Ingraham never called for Ed Schultz's firing. Nobody organized advertiser boycotts.

The reasons being: these ladies are adults, secure in who they are, and they don't need or want powerful loudmouth defenders in politics and the Democrat-Media Complex. And they aren't "victims" trying to score political points.
 
Now taking bets as to 1) over/under the number of posts before this gets taken outside and 2) who's post will put it over the top. Betting windows are now open! ;)
 
Did Rush say something stupid? Yes. Is he the biggest target out there? Yes. Are there other gas bags out there who say stupid stuff? Yes. Are sponsors within their rights to not want to be associated with stupid? Yes.

Wouldn't it be nice if the upshot of all of this was that everybody decided that gasbags on BOTH sides of the aisle should be shunned when they go way over the edge on saying stupid, venomous, demonstrably untrue stuff? Wouldn't it be nice if someone actually presented fair and balanced discourse on issues, with fact-checking that's at least as valid as what we get from ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" (or is it "Around the Horn"? - I forget)? At the end of each segment, the fact-checkers tell you who was wrong, or at least overstated their case, and it becomes part of the summary.

Maybe NPR should borrow from ESPN in this case. Or it could be the makings of a very interesting local show, couldn't it? Damn, I should be getting consultant money for this.
 
John C said:
Now taking bets as to 1) over/under the number of posts before this gets taken outside and 2) who's post will put it over the top. Betting windows are now open! ;)

Yeah, JC, I'd hate for that to happen, not because I started this thread, but because it seems thus far to be fairly civil and has remained a radio centered discussion. (Use call letters, dammit!) I'd add BTW, that Ed Schulz followed his moment of stupidity with a heartfelt apology to Laura Ingraham. She graciously accepted and Big Red Ed was told to go fishin' for a week by MSNBC. I've been listening to some Canadian stations, CFRB, CKLW as well as CBC that have touched on the topic. The opinions of hosts and callers are reasonably modulated, most taking Limbaugh to task in typically Canadian stride. Eh.

SirRoxalot said:
Wouldn't it be nice if the upshot of all of this was that everybody decided that gasbags on BOTH sides of the aisle should be shunned when they go way over the edge on saying stupid, venomous, demonstrably untrue stuff? Wouldn't it be nice if someone actually presented fair and balanced discourse on issues, with fact-checking that's at least as valid as what we get from ESPN's "Pardon the Interruption" (or is it "Around the Horn"? - I forget)? At the end of each segment, the fact-checkers tell you who was wrong, or at least overstated their case, and it becomes part of the summary.

Maybe NPR should borrow from ESPN in this case. Or it could be the makings of a very interesting local show, couldn't it? Damn, I should be getting consultant money for this.

Hang out the shingle brother. Heh, if you hear your suggestion on WBEN, make sure you bill 'em.
 
Savage said:
Haw, haw, haw! :D Nothing like whacking a hornet's nest first thing in the morning!

Yeah, Rush said something he probably shouldn't have. I would characterize it as "an unguarded moment." And while you guys are stoking the indignation, you might want to reserve a little for:

Keith Olbermann. Ed Schultz. Bill Maher. Mike Taibbi (his comments about Michelle Malkin were so incredibly vile, explicitly racist/sexist and objectively obscene, they would make Rush's calling Fluke a "slut" sound like a compliment. If I quoted them here, the moderator would delete them. We're talking about a left-wing spokesman who actually wrote a piece about the late Andrew Breitbart called "Death Of A ******" and expressed glee at his death....within 48 hours of his passing.)

And while Michelle Malkin, Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Condoleeza Rice, Carrie Prejean, Sarah Palin and many other strong conservative females have had the left make public comments lewdly denigrating them sexually and morally in the most graphic terms, none of them got cuddly poor-baby phone calls from the Commander-In-Chief. Laura Ingraham never called for Ed Schultz's firing. Nobody organized advertiser boycotts.

The reasons being: these ladies are adults, secure in who they are, and they don't need or want powerful loudmouth defenders in politics and the Democrat-Media Complex. And they aren't "victims" trying to score political points.

Did it EVER occur to you that ALL of the women you mentioned are VERY public figures, with MOST of them being major bomb-throwers? The awful things that Malkin, Coulter, Palin et al have said or insinuated about the left...and you compare them as victims to a woman who testified about the need for contraception to help women?

Really?

Rightie rationale. Gotta love it.
 
I agree with the President. I think it's wrong to use degrading words towards any woman. And I agree that while Palin, Malkin, et al are world class flamethrowers, you don't call a woman a "slut" or throw the c bomb at them under any circumstances. I find racial comments about anyone equally repugnant. BTW, Ed Schultz apologized to Laura right away and accepted a one week suspension from his radio show. I just read that conservative columnist Cal Thomas apologized in person to Rachel Maddow for a distasteful comment he made(about her sexual orientation) at the recent CPAC convention. Mahr still owes Sarah an apology.

That said, the severity of Rush's comments about, yes, a private citizen who merely came to congress to testify, was way, way, way over the top. If he called her only one bad word just once he might have gotten away with it. But he's ranting against this women for 2 days. His comments about how sex videos was really creepy and further indicates that Rush may have some serious hangups. I also am no lawyer, but legal experts say she'd have a good case for slander if she decides to sue him. Again, the severity of his comments is at issue here.

To help get things back on topic, reading Bob Smith's previous comments, if local Rush affiliates WHAM and WBEN were found financially liable for running Rush's show where these comments were made, who might Clear Channel and Entercom fire to help pay for damages? WHAM is currently down to 2 full time newsmen, correct? Would there be anyone left to fire? Somebody hurry & comment on this as the countdown to TIO begins at 10-9-8-7-6......
 
I wouldn't worry too much about anybody getting fired to pay for settlements from actions filed over Rush's on-air comments. Any action brought for damages would be instantly dismissed on motion. You can't sue someone for hurt feelings, or because you heard somebody say something you think was icky.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about anybody getting fired to pay for settlements from actions filed over Rush's on-air comments. Any action brought for damages would be instantly dismissed on motion. You can't sue someone for hurt feelings, or because you heard somebody say something you think was icky.
Legal experts disagree. They feel it's not just hurt feelings, it's slander(or at least she could make a good case for it). Personally I think it's an abuse of the airwaves to use this kind of crudeness against a private citizen. If you don't agree with the mandatory pill control coverage mandate, you have every right in the world to voice your opinion, but how about everyone on the right and left start acting like adults(I guess that's too much to ask). Is calling Ms. Fluke a "slut" and a "prostitute" actually slander? That's why we have a court system in this country.

That said, I hope WBEN and WHAM are in the clear and their remaining staff members keep their jobs.
 
As far as Fluk herself goes, I would say the likelihood of her succeeding with a slander/libel suit is about on a par with Clear Channel ordering all their jocks companywide to adopt the air names Tommy Thomas, Jerry Jack and Mike Melody and having their imaging voices say "Be Big, Be A Builder" on all stations, for the rest of time.

First of all, it's well established that "mere insults" (like name-calling) do not give rise to defamation. Also - I know most posters here will disagree - Rush's comment had context, so it wasn't as simple as his calling Fluk a sexually degrading name. There actually was a point to Rush's comment, whether or not you like it or agree with it.

Finally it's also well-established that the threshold for becoming a "public figure" is a low one and that Fluk voluntarily surrendered her "private" status by testifying before Congress on a highly controversial subject. At the very least, IMO she would have to prove "pecuniary" damages, i.e., Rush's comment directly caused her financial loss.

Because - at least for now - we have a thing called The First Amendment to the US Constitution, ours is thankfully a society where we don't punish people for things they say. Accordingly defamation is a disfavored action at the law. And I think that's the way it should be.
 
Savage said:
I know most posters here will disagree - Rush's comment had context, so it wasn't as simple as his calling Fluk a sexually degrading name. There actually was a point to Rush's comment, whether or not you like it or agree with it.

Rush said this woman is a slut and that she sleeps around with a lot of people. He didn't just say it once, he said it repeatedly.

The "context" was fabricated by Rush because he was either completly ignorant of what her actual testimony was....or he was lying.

Take your pick.

And make no mistake about it, whether or not he has to pay damages in the event of a lawsuit is questionable, but what he did is the DEFINITION of SLANDER.

Legal definition:
Slander is the oral communication of false statements that are harmful to a person's reputation.

Slander is an act of communication that causes someone to be shamed, ridiculed, held in contempt, lowered in the estimation of the community, or to lose employment status or earnings or otherwise suffer a damaged reputation. Slander is a subcategory of defamation.
***********

I have read many different comment sections around the net on this, as well as listened to numerous conservative call-in shows...and it is VERY TELLING that MANY people simply adopted Rush's version of thigns and are criticizing this woman along the lines of "if she's gonna sleep around, we SHOULDN'T have to pay for it! Rush is right and shouldn't have apologized!" Etc etc etc

Now lets talk, in this age of internet, about how her reputation is to be repaired.

Riddle me THAT batman?

How people continue to consider Rush as being moral or virtuous is unreal, and truly underlines the hypocrisy of that crowd. Disgraceful.
 
jas2525 - thank you.

2 other points of reality.

-This is regarding private insurance policies. You have to pay monthly premiums and they usually include a co-pay with every Rx. How could anyone possibly think the federal government is giving out free birth control?

-Many women use contraceptives for use other than preventing pregnancies in their bodies. As Ms. Fluke stated, a friend of hers(a lesbian), needed it to prevent a recurring cyst. She could no longer afford paying for her Rx out of her own pocket and now a new cyst has developed.

Back to the original topic, anyone know of any Buffalo and Rochester businesses who have stopped advertising on Rush's show this week?
 
Nice "legal definition" of defamation, jas. Where did you get that one? Google, Esq.?

I just reached up on my bookshelf and pulled out my good old law school hornbook "Prosser on Torts," which devotes about a hundred pages to the subject of defamation. And of course that doesn't include two hundred years of case law on the subject.

While you're schooling us on the laws of libel and slander, you might also want to check out the topics "New York Times malice" and "special damages."

Be assured: it ain't as simple as rattling off some "legal definition" to determine whether there's a cause of action here.
 
"anyone know of any Buffalo and Rochester businesses who have stopped advertising on Rush's show this week?"

Purely impression (I haven't seen WHAM's logs and haven't handled WBEN's since long before Rush arrived there) but it's always seemed to me that there weren't nearly as many local advertisers on his show, as on any of the locally produced shows around him on the schedule. I don't get to hear him these days since his move to an earlier daypart (I'm, shall we say, otherwise engaged in early afternoons) but when he ran in afternoon drive in Rochester it seemed like an awful lot of national ads and not much local action compared to what other stations were doing at the same time...take that for whatever it's worth.

As to the Sullivan vs. NY TImes case, which insulates media from libel and/or slander damages sought by public figures unless there's strong probative evidence of malicious intent on the part of the media outlet, that's moot here because Ms. Fluke isn't a public figure and that means the bar for a successful lawsuit is set a lot lower. I'm no attorney but libel and slander law is an area you have to educate yourself about early and thoroughly if you're going to do an opinion-driven show. If she can make a credible argument of reckless disregard for truth, she can look forward to a big payday if she so chooses. It'll be interesting to see if she sues--a lot of highly regarded legal eagles who don't have a direct interest in the case or in the politics surrounding it are offering unsolicited public advice that she should.

Would you?
 
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