Will Local Clients Flee Limbaugh

[Savage]

Thanks for the Sullivan vs. NY Times citation, Robert. And "malicious intent" is not determined by the lay definition of the term. Legal "malice" for purposes of the law is generally defined as "knowing falsity" or "reckless disregard for the truth." This has been further defined by subsequent cases.

I will respectfully dissent from your declaration that Ms. Fluke is not a "public figure" in these circumstances.

Apply the NY Times definition of "malice" to an actual transcript of Rush's comments complete with context concerning Fluke's testimony before Congress. I think any libel case based on this incident is shaky at best.

 

[cee]

Apply the NY Times definition of "malice" to an actual transcript of Rush's comments complete with context concerning Fluke's testimony before Congress. I think any libel case based on this incident is shaky at best.

But again, there are legal experts who beg to differ. Proving once again that lawyers and judges don't all interrupt the law the same way. The law is very complex and as I said before, that's why we have courts(as fallible as they may often be).

That said, I find his remarks boorish and outside the boundaries of common decency. If I were an advertiser, I would not want my product associated with him.

 

[DTV-Chief]

Thanks for the Sullivan vs. NY Times citation, Robert. And "malicious intent" is not determined by the lay definition of the term. Legal "malice" for purposes of the law is generally defined as "knowing falsity" or "reckless disregard for the truth." This has been further defined by subsequent cases.

I will respectfully dissent from your declaration that Ms. Fluke is not a "public figure" in these circumstances.

Apply the NY Times definition of "malice" to an actual transcript of Rush's comments complete with context concerning Fluke's testimony before Congress. I think any libel case based on this incident is shaky at best.

The notion that by testifying an individual waives the right to privacy will undoubtedly be tested in the Courts, right up to the top. It could hinge on whether such testimony was compelled or voluntary. Would you expect that if Congress called you to testify you're protected from slander?

 

[Paul_Warren]

Whatever happens, note to self: Picking on a law student at a prestigious university will probably kick a hornet's nest of lawyers.

 

[jas2525]

Nice "legal definition" of defamation, jas. Where did you get that one? Google, Esq.?

I just reached up on my bookshelf and pulled out my good old law school hornbook "Prosser on Torts," which devotes about a hundred pages to the subject of defamation. And of course that doesn't include two hundred years of case law on the subject.

While you're schooling us on the laws of libel and slander, you might also want to check out the topics "New York Times malice" and "special damages."

Be assured: it ain't as simple as rattling off some "legal definition" to determine whether there's a cause of action here.

Okay, you're right, I am NOT a lawyer.

So what do YOU call it when a radio blowhard recklessly makes up what was said at a congessional hearing---just so he can call out a private citizen by insisting repeatedly that she is a slut and a prostitiute, sleeping with a great many people---even urging her to record her sex acts so ge can watch them online?

Also, there are A LOT of people who BELIEVE the crap that Limbaugh said and speak of her now as if it is a GIVEN that she sleeps around! Go read around and listen around, it's dsigusting!

What do YOU call THAT counselor, just another day at the office for a conservative talk host?

 

[Element9]

Yeah, Rush said something he probably shouldn't have. I would characterize it as "an unguarded moment."

Yet, his own assessment was even more severe.

And while you guys are stoking the indignation, you might want to reserve a little for: Keith Olbermann. Ed Schultz. Bill Maher. Mike Taibbi (his comments about Michelle Malkin were so incredibly vile, explicitly racist/sexist and objectively obscene, they would make Rush's calling Fluke a "slut" sound like a compliment. If I quoted them here, the moderator would delete them. We're talking about a left-wing spokesman who actually wrote a piece about the late Andrew Breitbart called "Death Of A ******" and expressed glee at his death....within 48 hours of his passing.)

This is what's known as a (false) moral equivalence. Similar counter arguments include, "what's good for the goose is good for the gander," "nanny, nanny pooh pooh" and "your momma!"
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But first... back to the topic at hand, Limbaugh's comments were repugnant; many prominent national sponsors withdrew their support. Hard for large companies to ride this out, they just could not defend the indefensible. It was amusing to hear RL apologize for sinking to the level of liberals. (Again, moral equivalence.) Nicely, if transparently played. Not too difficult to have seen that coming. It's Rush 101. Money talks and bulls#it walks. The guy has legions of devoted listeners. If he can weather this, he'll survive until the time comes when the only people listening to him are Men 65+. What's that, about five years?

 

[listener-in]

Finally it's also well-established that the threshold for becoming a "public figure" is a low one and that Fluk voluntarily surrendered her "private" status by testifying before Congress on a highly controversial subject.....

......Because - at least for now - we have a thing called The First Amendment to the US Constitution, ours is thankfully a society where we don't punish people for things they say.

As I asked in another thread: when I go to my town board meeting and express my opinion on public business (which, when all's said and done, is my business), do I cease to be a private citizen???

The first amendment doesn't come into it. As station owner, you would know that you have total editorial control. First Amendment rights notwithstanding, I have to assume that you have standards that limit what you allow to be broadcast over your station. Once you determine your limits, there's nothing in the First Amendment that restricts your right to boot someone who exceeds them off your station, whether you call it punishment or call it something else.

By the way, Limbaugh's unguarded "moment" actually extended from the beginning of his program on Feb 29 to the end of the one on March 2, a total of 51 hours. Hardly a fleeting aberration; but then, we already know that from his non-apology and his long-established modus operandi.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Sheesh. I'm glad I'm not paying billable hours for this discussion. I'm sure that lawyers are lining up on both sides hoping for a flurry of lawsuits.

 

[jas2525]

It is amusing that such euphemistic phrases as "unguarded moment" are being used in this case.

Reminds me of an unforgettable scene in the old TV show "Taxi":

Louie DePalma is on the outs with his mom. She won't talk to him or see him. He's standing outside the door of her apartment and asks what he did wrong. His mother, in Italian says "You called me horrible names!"

Louie says "Like what?" His mother rattles off a laundry list of Italian bad names. Louie then says:

"It slipped!"

Just an unguarded moment for Louie too I guess.

 

[Savage]

What do I call that, jas? I call it a really dumb mistake by Limbaugh. From my experience with Rush - I actually did an hour live with him here on WYSL and spent half a weekend with him during the first Rush Tour way back in the beginning - he's an extraordinarily smart guy. But like all of us, he's fallible, and the Fluke mess is Exhibit #1.

The whole contraception issue is ridiculous, a trap which has been set for GOP candidates and the conservative movement by the pro-Obama left. NOBODY cares about the "availability of contraception." You can get whatever you want at Wal-Mart for prices any convenience-store clerk can afford, and if that doesn't suit, you can get it for free at Planned Parenthood. Why engage about this non-issue on the air?? Like I said: dumb.

Rushbo stepped right on the bear trap, then kept ripping himself to ribbons struggling to get out of it. Like Romney and Santorum, he should know better. There are plenty of other issues which Americans really care about, from the economy, to federal corruption, to thuggery in the Justice Department, to the disaster in Afghanistan. Oh, and...I almost forgot....15% unemployment and soon-to-be-$5 gas. Contraception is a political tripwire crafted to make Republicans look bad.
Stay away, stay away, stay away.

 

[Mark Giardina]

Raise your hands if you never made a mistake on the air? I sure have, but not to the point of calling someone a name (at least when the mic was on).

I agree with Bob Savage that Limbaugh gave his enemies plenty of ammo with his comments. But I still maintain that Limbaugh has enough followers that any attempts to have him removed from the airwaves (similar to the failed campaign to get rid of Don Imus) will be an exercise in futility.

Like it or not I stick with my original predication that six months from now, or even less time than that, most Americans won't even remember the young lady's name while Limbaugh continues to offer his opinions to the 15 million listeners tuned in to his radio show.

 

[Bob1370]

We'll respectfully disagree about whether Ms. Fluke was a public figure when she first came before Congress and triggered Rush's ire...I've been told by some very credible legal experts that just coming before a group of Congressmen to express a viewpoint, as a citizen, does NOT make you a public figure, although using it as a launching pad for a continuing advocacy campaign and an organization to advance your views brings you over the line (and Ms. Fluke has yet to do that). And you can't build a phony defense of saying your own on-air attacks on someone make your chosen target into a public figure--if Mr. Limbaugh tries that he'll be laughed out of court.

What may be useful is not just the Sullivan case, but one a decade later, "Gertz vs. Robert Welch, Inc." (1974) in which the Supreme Court held that if the target of a defamatory comment is a private individual--which Ms. Fluke can credibly say she was at the time of Limbaugh's attack--malice need not be proven, the case is actionable and damages can be collected if simple negligence is present. Assuming her lawyers are aware of that case, Ms. Fluke can potentially make life miserable for Limbaugh and Clear Channel--and perhaps costly as well. If she does go after him on the basis of Gertz vs. Robert Welch, she'll probably take her time and make sure all the t's are crossed and i's dotted before filing. This one is far from over.

 

[JustPastBuffalo]

Raise your hands if you never made a mistake on the air? I sure have, but not to the point of calling someone a name (at least when the mic was on).

Talking over a cold intro. Reading the wrong date on a commercial. Fumbling through a cold-copy newscast. Mistakes. Guilty as charged. This? RCS used the words "bear trap." Yup. Rush set it, then stepped in it. Ca-chunk. Double Doh! Friday's Taylor On Radio reports:

One charity has even requested that its spots not run during Rush Limbaugh's show on Cumulus-owned talk WABC, New York (770). That’s the American Heart Association, which says “It is our practice to be a content-sensitive advertiser, and in light of the current controversy, we will be asking WABC to no longer utilize these unpaid PSAs." Rush insists that “everything is fine on the business side…everything’s cool.” But activist group Media Matters for America is trying to counter that perception with its own spot count from Wednesday’s Rush broadcast on WABC. AdAge looks at Media Matters data and says "of the 69 commercial spots on Wednesday's three-hour show, more than half were public service announcements." Those included free ads for the United Negro College Fund and Big Brothers/Big Sisters.

As a friend last week suggested would happen, there appears to be collateral damage. For the record, I disagreed. He called it.

TRI hears that Premiere is circulating a list of 98 advertisers who want to avoid “environments likely to stir negative sentiments.” The list includes carmakers (Ford, GM, Toyota), insurance companies (Allstate, Geico, Prudential, State Farm) and restaurants (McDonald’s, Subway) ... those “environments” go beyond the Rush Limbaugh show.

 

[listener-in]

What do I call that, jas? I call it a really dumb mistake by Limbaugh.

It was dumb, but it wasn't a mistake. It was totally deliberate. If it had been a mistake on day 1, he would have reflected on it for a few hours and apologized, like a decent human being, first thing on day 2. And I mean apologized, not that travesty of a statement that he belatedly came up with, no doubt with the help of Premiere's execs and lawyers.

 

[Savage]

And I have NEVER talked over a cold intro. Never, EVER.

 

[therealjm12]

I have played records the wrong speed, played the cart over again, and hit the start button twice on the computer, which screws up everything. However, I have never launched a personal attack on the air and called a young woman a slut and a prostitute.
If I had, I would deserve to be fired.

 

[Element9]

I have played records the wrong speed, played the cart over again, and hit the start button twice on the computer, which screws up everything. However, I have never launched a personal attack on the air and called a young woman a slut and a prostitute. If I had, I would deserve to be fired.

Best post in the whole damn thread.

 

[jas2525]

I have played records the wrong speed, played the cart over again, and hit the start button twice on the computer, which screws up everything. However, I have never launched a personal attack on the air and called a young woman a slut and a prostitute. If I had, I would deserve to be fired.

Best post in the whole damn thread.

Isn't that the REAL double standard?

I cannot imagine ANY local host ANYWHERE in this country, NOT being fired for saying what Limbaugh said.

As a mater of fact, many have been fired for a lot less.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I have played records the wrong speed, played the cart over again, and hit the start button twice on the computer, which screws up everything. However, I have never launched a personal attack on the air and called a young woman a slut and a prostitute.
If I had, I would deserve to be fired.

The post that sums it up brilliantly!

 

[Debaser]

Then there's this...
http://defendrush.org/