H
hornet61
Guest
Will the real Doo-Wop please stand-up?
This consensus is, or at least 90% of us agree on this board, the following:
Rock N’ Roll - coined about 1955 by probably Alan Freed, and that Rock N’Roll evolved from Blues, R&B, Rockabilly and a little POP. Evolved from as far back as the early forties.
The British Invasion – Evolved from British Groups covering mostly American songs, mostly Blues or R&B, and created this unique sound by Brits trying to sound like American/R&b/Groups.
Lets not nor re-hash the about statements I am just leading up to my point.
Starting about 1958 up to 1964 there were many groups in NY City and Philly, mostly Italian groups (about 90%), Some Jewish Groups (About 10%) and 10% other. The reason I bring up the Ethnic aspect because these groups recorded the defining sound that I am alluding too.
4-5 Five Part Harmony, a lot of nonsense syllables, simple arrangements, staccato delivery….. These were all elements of Rock N’ Roll , but they combined them all, and took them to the next level.
Like the British Invasion they were Caucasian kids raised on mostly Black R&B, who emulated this sound and created this unique sound at the time simply called Rock N’ Roll.
Dion and the Belmonts
The Earls
Elegents
Duprees
Tokens
Fireflies
Danny and the JRs
Orients
Vito and the Salutaions
Eternals
These groups created an incredible body of work and a Gold Mine of untapped gems, they had the misfortune of coming along during The British Invasion which changed the face of Rock N’ Roll and killed that very sound that this group was starting to expound.
Consequently a lot of this music never charted, but this music is as incredible as the one that did chart. And Like I said earlier the body of work is huge
Like I said on my Hit Parade Subject lets leave the Market Value aspect out and debate the real Identity of DOO-WOP
Here is where the question begins:
It is generally accepted that about the early 70’s Richard Nader or Gus Gossett coined the term DOO-WOP for some Rock N’ Roll shows in NY, featuring those groups that I referenced above or similar to, I believe they were describing this unique style which combined a lot of aspects of Rock N’Roll , but still specific to a hybrid sound that came from those NY and Philly groups.
Here is where I have a problem in that thru lazy or incompetent radio people, the term DOO-WOP has been retroactively applied to everything as far back as 1948. To me the Platters (POP) and Little Anthony (POP?R&B) are not DOO-WOP, even the Penguins to me are not DOO-WOP….they are R&B.
80% of DJ’s on the talk out of their ear, and get so many facts wrong that the DOO-WOP definition has been perpetuated into an equal definition of /R&B/Rock N Roll and it isn’t.
This become so prevalent that it has become accepted by everyone and most reference sources such wikipedia has DOO-WOP mapped back to 1954.
So don’t quote me out of wikipedia , I want to hear your opinion, not a quote from WIKI or some other reference site. Is there a true DOO-WOP definition or are you content with retro version, be prepared to defend the Platters as DOO-WOP
This is what I’m talking about incompetent DJ’s …I don’t listen to the local Doo-Wop show often, because he is awful , in his defense the only reason he got the job is because he is free, but I question the judgment of the person who put him on the air to represent their station.
He said “I’ll be right back with Johnny Maestro and his first gig the Elegents (Hello, Crests and the Brooklyn Bridge”)
He later played the Dave Clark Five (Hello, the DC Five on a DOO-WOP show????) and If that wasn’t enough he said “they(DC Five) had also done Love Potion #9..(Hello, The Searchers are the British Group that covered the Clovers - Love potion # 9)
This next one may be nit-picking but don’t let a New Yorker hear you referring to the “Earls” as a Philly group…forget-about-it) Bronx baby all the way
He does this every time I tune–in, and other doo-wop shows refer to very basic R&B as DOO-WOP so matter –o – factly…….
On last thing he was trying to talk about the Del-Satins backing Dion when the Belmonts left and he screwed that all up.. Never got to the part that the Del Satins evolved into the Brooklyn Bridge, and later with Johnny Maestro (Mastrangelo, if I remember correctly)
Let me hear your opnion where DOO-WOP starts and ends.
This consensus is, or at least 90% of us agree on this board, the following:
Rock N’ Roll - coined about 1955 by probably Alan Freed, and that Rock N’Roll evolved from Blues, R&B, Rockabilly and a little POP. Evolved from as far back as the early forties.
The British Invasion – Evolved from British Groups covering mostly American songs, mostly Blues or R&B, and created this unique sound by Brits trying to sound like American/R&b/Groups.
Lets not nor re-hash the about statements I am just leading up to my point.
Starting about 1958 up to 1964 there were many groups in NY City and Philly, mostly Italian groups (about 90%), Some Jewish Groups (About 10%) and 10% other. The reason I bring up the Ethnic aspect because these groups recorded the defining sound that I am alluding too.
4-5 Five Part Harmony, a lot of nonsense syllables, simple arrangements, staccato delivery….. These were all elements of Rock N’ Roll , but they combined them all, and took them to the next level.
Like the British Invasion they were Caucasian kids raised on mostly Black R&B, who emulated this sound and created this unique sound at the time simply called Rock N’ Roll.
Dion and the Belmonts
The Earls
Elegents
Duprees
Tokens
Fireflies
Danny and the JRs
Orients
Vito and the Salutaions
Eternals
These groups created an incredible body of work and a Gold Mine of untapped gems, they had the misfortune of coming along during The British Invasion which changed the face of Rock N’ Roll and killed that very sound that this group was starting to expound.
Consequently a lot of this music never charted, but this music is as incredible as the one that did chart. And Like I said earlier the body of work is huge
Like I said on my Hit Parade Subject lets leave the Market Value aspect out and debate the real Identity of DOO-WOP
Here is where the question begins:
It is generally accepted that about the early 70’s Richard Nader or Gus Gossett coined the term DOO-WOP for some Rock N’ Roll shows in NY, featuring those groups that I referenced above or similar to, I believe they were describing this unique style which combined a lot of aspects of Rock N’Roll , but still specific to a hybrid sound that came from those NY and Philly groups.
Here is where I have a problem in that thru lazy or incompetent radio people, the term DOO-WOP has been retroactively applied to everything as far back as 1948. To me the Platters (POP) and Little Anthony (POP?R&B) are not DOO-WOP, even the Penguins to me are not DOO-WOP….they are R&B.
80% of DJ’s on the talk out of their ear, and get so many facts wrong that the DOO-WOP definition has been perpetuated into an equal definition of /R&B/Rock N Roll and it isn’t.
This become so prevalent that it has become accepted by everyone and most reference sources such wikipedia has DOO-WOP mapped back to 1954.
So don’t quote me out of wikipedia , I want to hear your opinion, not a quote from WIKI or some other reference site. Is there a true DOO-WOP definition or are you content with retro version, be prepared to defend the Platters as DOO-WOP
This is what I’m talking about incompetent DJ’s …I don’t listen to the local Doo-Wop show often, because he is awful , in his defense the only reason he got the job is because he is free, but I question the judgment of the person who put him on the air to represent their station.
He said “I’ll be right back with Johnny Maestro and his first gig the Elegents (Hello, Crests and the Brooklyn Bridge”)
He later played the Dave Clark Five (Hello, the DC Five on a DOO-WOP show????) and If that wasn’t enough he said “they(DC Five) had also done Love Potion #9..(Hello, The Searchers are the British Group that covered the Clovers - Love potion # 9)
This next one may be nit-picking but don’t let a New Yorker hear you referring to the “Earls” as a Philly group…forget-about-it) Bronx baby all the way
He does this every time I tune–in, and other doo-wop shows refer to very basic R&B as DOO-WOP so matter –o – factly…….
On last thing he was trying to talk about the Del-Satins backing Dion when the Belmonts left and he screwed that all up.. Never got to the part that the Del Satins evolved into the Brooklyn Bridge, and later with Johnny Maestro (Mastrangelo, if I remember correctly)
Let me hear your opnion where DOO-WOP starts and ends.
