There is an audience for everything. Since all of ypou seem to be experts at this, will there ever be another Hard Rock/AOR/Metal radio station in D/FW? A station that ignores alternative rock and bands that have been beat to death like ZZ top and Skynyrd? Why can't there be a station that caters to the needs of metalheads. There are a lot of them out there. And if it won't ever happen, how much money would it take to do that?
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Will there ever be another Hard Rock/Metal/AOR station in D/FW???
- Thread starter OzzyStillbourne
- Start date
C
charles123
Guest
Maybe on KLLI 105.3, if the ratings don't get better
H
henderson_s454
Guest
I know of several people who would want for something like that to happen, but I seriously doubt it at this time. When changes are made in the management, though, all bets will be off. The bad news is that I'm not sure if, or when, THAT will ever happen in the Metroplex!
V
VERITAS DE VOCE
Guest
These days - the times of yore of CONsultants and corporate tyrants..er...uh...business people in radio - radio fits trends, not needs. In the 80s, glam metal and superb rock was king, and in this market, so was the Q and the Zoo. In the 90s, metal was rising and hard rock was kicking butt, as was Z Rock, Edge and Eagle. In the oughts? Grunge is gone. Alt is not. And the Edge is Dead.
There is no trend to fit the bill, and so, the aficionados of said formats will have to stick to iPods and albums. The music sales don't warrant the need. And besides, who cares to see 8,000 45-year old Black Sabbath fans in one place anyway?! ;D
There is no trend to fit the bill, and so, the aficionados of said formats will have to stick to iPods and albums. The music sales don't warrant the need. And besides, who cares to see 8,000 45-year old Black Sabbath fans in one place anyway?! ;D
Well whether the need is there or not, how can one go about starting a station like this? How much money would it cost? There ought to be a radio station for music fans , not typical radio listeners who like the same crap day after day. And there are many people that love hard rock that despise alternative. And they aren't all 45 years old either. i understand radio is about making money, but a format like this would do well.
VERITAS DE VOCE said:
Well not quite. Some of the early digital processors for broadcast use, had a ton of grunge. Digital grunge, that is. ;D
R
There might be, but I wouldn't hold my breath...OzzyStillbourne said:
Here's why (IMHO)
The Bone tried it a few years back with their 'rocks harder' positioning. The problem comes in that there's a small batch of songs there that aren't the "AOR that's been beat to death", and aren't alt, grunge, etc...and let me qualify that by saying a small batch that are familiar, 'hits' whatever you want to call them...
So if you have a small number of hits, you can either play the crap out of them (and drive people away through repitition) or expand your playlist (and drive people away through unfamiliar cuts)...
So the first problem is there's only so much widely popular music in that format. Then metal tends to draw extremely young males. Who aren't a huge draw with advertisers....
There's certainly a lot of hard rock/metal/Deep Tracks fans in the Metroplex.....
Enough to validate offering this on a HD-2 channel, as an alternate to hits and commercial hits.....
But, so far, this has not been done.
The incredible short-sightedness of this soul-less industry.
The Quality of Lofe for the country and for the Metroplex is impared by this balls to the wall capitalism. If commcercial radio cannot support a Hard Rock station in the Metroplex, I would rather not see any commercial music radio at all. I'm a consumer. I do not need commercial music radio for anything in my life.
Commerical Talk and Sports radio give me the "information" I might need.
Commercial Muisc radio gives me NOTHING that I need on any level.
Led Zeppelin and their huge draw is much deeper than commercial rock radio's presentation. But no one gets it... What a mess we've inherited !!!! :-[
Enough to validate offering this on a HD-2 channel, as an alternate to hits and commercial hits.....
But, so far, this has not been done.
The incredible short-sightedness of this soul-less industry.
The Quality of Lofe for the country and for the Metroplex is impared by this balls to the wall capitalism. If commcercial radio cannot support a Hard Rock station in the Metroplex, I would rather not see any commercial music radio at all. I'm a consumer. I do not need commercial music radio for anything in my life.
Commerical Talk and Sports radio give me the "information" I might need.
Commercial Muisc radio gives me NOTHING that I need on any level.
Led Zeppelin and their huge draw is much deeper than commercial rock radio's presentation. But no one gets it... What a mess we've inherited !!!! :-[
T
Tripp214
Guest
I have a friend that worked at KEGL and apparently they are no longer Hispanic radio....I think they are playing Christmas music right now be she said that they are going to go to Classic Rock or Rock.
Who knows...may go back to the old Eagle...maybe they can get Howard Stern back and Russ Martin!
Who knows...may go back to the old Eagle...maybe they can get Howard Stern back and Russ Martin!
F
FOZZIE BEAR
Guest
Sorry, if you program a station the right way. You could get an ACTIVE ROCK station in the DFW market and make it damn successful. Thats a promise. I don't care about trends or consultants etc.... It's very simple... you program well, have talent that doesn't suck.... your over half way to your goal. The reason why the BONE sucks is becuz of it's programming and the talent isn't really there either. Just becuz you say you are cool etc... Doesnt make you a cool station. This is what the BONE and THE EDGE do. More the BONE then the EDGE. Are you taking in the local rock scene? Are you promoting the small shows? Not just the ARENA shows? Are you playing a good mix of classic tracks with the ACTIVE ROCK TOP 40 stuff. Are you playing the PANTERA'S, POWERMAN'S, UNION UNDERGROUND'S, BLACK LABEL'S etc...? There's more, but hopefully you get what I am saying.
Now, I know there are going to be those who disagree. Thats fine. That is your opinion.
However, I have personally witnessed for the past 5 yrs an ACTIVE ROCK station kick ass.
If you build it.... they will come.
Now, I know there are going to be those who disagree. Thats fine. That is your opinion.
However, I have personally witnessed for the past 5 yrs an ACTIVE ROCK station kick ass.
If you build it.... they will come.
N
NJ
Guest
Tripp214 said:
Lets hope it could go hard rock without Howard, but especially without Russ...If programmers would quit thinking that the only hard rock/metal listeners are 18 year old boys with only T & A on their minds, then it could work. I am not male nor a young'un and I LOVE hard rock and metal. I just cant stand the way it is represented in radio.
Even if The Eagle did return, it would be without Howard. He's through with terra radio.
R
R
D
dallasrockradio
Guest
Your wants for a Dallas rock station has been fullfilledOzzyStillbourne said:
I'm not sure about Dallas, but stations in smaller markets go for millions.
That all depends on your interpretation of "Hard Rock/Metal/AOR"
See, we still live in a research driven industry, and most of the artists/titles that would make up a great "Hard Rock" station won't "test." In order to do a station of this kind, it would have to programmed by people who truly know the music (and lifestyle that accompanied it) inside-out. Otherwise, we'll get the same 4 Motley songs, same 5 AC/DC songs etc.
The problem lies with the fact that niche formatted stations, and that's what you're asking about, need to be credible. And credibility doesn't come from test scores. A song like "Say What You Will" from Fastway will never score, but when heard by those who love that music, they react. We run stations more on data and less on "gut" because the few people who know music that programmed, were systematically replaced by marketing people with Selector skills.
Those niche formats have to be run by music people, and they need to be trusted by those who placed the station's control in their hands. That's just too much to ask in this current radio landscape. Wall St. and corporate don't have the time, money, or patience to rebuild what's been broken down and mechanized for the past 2 decades. That's just the reality of the world we exist within.
The people who love Hard Rock & Metal love it because they feel a connection to it. There's passion. And we as an industry don't elicit that response from the listeners the way we should. It's one of the major disappointments I found with my XM. The Boneyard is a great idea that's faltering because they're missing the point. Any station that caters to a specific niche audience needs to be staffed by people who can tell you every guy that's ever played in Loudness. Just in case they're playing "Let It Go" and it's Minoru Nihara's birthday. Or, Obsession's playing some crap club in Tunafish Montana, and Mike Vescera, who replaced Minoru, is back in the band. You can't just play those songs. You must tie them in to the listener. They're there not to use the radio as background noise, or for service elements. They really LOVE the music. That's why they're coming, and you've got them wanting to love the station. But you're just reading liners, and backselling. There's no content. And trust me...Most people who love that music can name everyone in Iron Maiden, but couldn't tell you who the drummer in Nickelback is. Why? Because those bands had personality, and today we just throw everything against the wall for 6 weeks, and move on. We don't entrench the audience into the music.
The listeners of those niche formatted stations want to know this stuff. Not because they need to, but to know that the station they're listening to is genuine and lives the lifestyle that they (the listener) loved so much.
To ask management to trust that things would be done differently, and to find people to staff this station would take time, effort, and money. The product is there. The talent who know & love that stuff (Remy Maxwell, Long Paul, Eddie Webb, Eddie Trunk, and so many more) are out there and would love to be part of it. There's no lack of people who want to work for a station like that. There appears to be, based upon the amount of programming hours VH-1 & VH-1 Classic devote to the older Hard Rock, enough audience desire.
It would just take us back into an age where control would have to be ceded to individual talent whose knowledge of the product must be vast, and credible. And that's a whole lot to ask your average GM, or PD in 2007 to gamble their job on.
We, as an industry have become so safe, we're scared to try anything. I often wonder if Ahmet Ertegun threw "Physical Graffiti" on the turntable and plotted which single would go for 6 week increments, or if Mark Parenteau, or Jeff Gonzer just took the full length and said "Hey..new Zeppelin...let's pick a song and listen"
How do you think those 300 songs became so popular that they tested? Someone had to play them, and seed passion into those that were listening. Isn't that why we got into this?
That Hard Rock station you asked about a month ago when I started writing this, would have to be able to do the same with "Running From The Law" by Riot.
Might be a little too much to ask.
...but I'd certainly want to work there. If not, I'd listen
See, we still live in a research driven industry, and most of the artists/titles that would make up a great "Hard Rock" station won't "test." In order to do a station of this kind, it would have to programmed by people who truly know the music (and lifestyle that accompanied it) inside-out. Otherwise, we'll get the same 4 Motley songs, same 5 AC/DC songs etc.
The problem lies with the fact that niche formatted stations, and that's what you're asking about, need to be credible. And credibility doesn't come from test scores. A song like "Say What You Will" from Fastway will never score, but when heard by those who love that music, they react. We run stations more on data and less on "gut" because the few people who know music that programmed, were systematically replaced by marketing people with Selector skills.
Those niche formats have to be run by music people, and they need to be trusted by those who placed the station's control in their hands. That's just too much to ask in this current radio landscape. Wall St. and corporate don't have the time, money, or patience to rebuild what's been broken down and mechanized for the past 2 decades. That's just the reality of the world we exist within.
The people who love Hard Rock & Metal love it because they feel a connection to it. There's passion. And we as an industry don't elicit that response from the listeners the way we should. It's one of the major disappointments I found with my XM. The Boneyard is a great idea that's faltering because they're missing the point. Any station that caters to a specific niche audience needs to be staffed by people who can tell you every guy that's ever played in Loudness. Just in case they're playing "Let It Go" and it's Minoru Nihara's birthday. Or, Obsession's playing some crap club in Tunafish Montana, and Mike Vescera, who replaced Minoru, is back in the band. You can't just play those songs. You must tie them in to the listener. They're there not to use the radio as background noise, or for service elements. They really LOVE the music. That's why they're coming, and you've got them wanting to love the station. But you're just reading liners, and backselling. There's no content. And trust me...Most people who love that music can name everyone in Iron Maiden, but couldn't tell you who the drummer in Nickelback is. Why? Because those bands had personality, and today we just throw everything against the wall for 6 weeks, and move on. We don't entrench the audience into the music.
The listeners of those niche formatted stations want to know this stuff. Not because they need to, but to know that the station they're listening to is genuine and lives the lifestyle that they (the listener) loved so much.
To ask management to trust that things would be done differently, and to find people to staff this station would take time, effort, and money. The product is there. The talent who know & love that stuff (Remy Maxwell, Long Paul, Eddie Webb, Eddie Trunk, and so many more) are out there and would love to be part of it. There's no lack of people who want to work for a station like that. There appears to be, based upon the amount of programming hours VH-1 & VH-1 Classic devote to the older Hard Rock, enough audience desire.
It would just take us back into an age where control would have to be ceded to individual talent whose knowledge of the product must be vast, and credible. And that's a whole lot to ask your average GM, or PD in 2007 to gamble their job on.
We, as an industry have become so safe, we're scared to try anything. I often wonder if Ahmet Ertegun threw "Physical Graffiti" on the turntable and plotted which single would go for 6 week increments, or if Mark Parenteau, or Jeff Gonzer just took the full length and said "Hey..new Zeppelin...let's pick a song and listen"
How do you think those 300 songs became so popular that they tested? Someone had to play them, and seed passion into those that were listening. Isn't that why we got into this?
That Hard Rock station you asked about a month ago when I started writing this, would have to be able to do the same with "Running From The Law" by Riot.
Might be a little too much to ask.
...but I'd certainly want to work there. If not, I'd listen
^^
It's nice to know inside stuff about music and songs -- that matter.....
What gets me, is they'll want to talk on and on, and give you inside stuff....abut music and songs, --that don't mean a thing anyways--. You know, like the "interesting" stories that movies stars have to tell about the trials and tribluations -- about making their latest piece of cr*p! If the movie is good, it should sell itself. If you want to like your cr@ppy movie, just becuase you went through hell to make it --- No Dice -- Too Bad -- Try again Next Time!!
What we need to a station with the credibility to play only the good stuff, and not call fluff -- the right stuff!
WE, the music lovers, have no voice on commercial radio.
But the 'robot' people... well now ! ! They --do-- have a voice on commercial radio!
The advertisers have reached their target! Now, we should all be happy, and enjoy !!
I think not.
It's nice to know inside stuff about music and songs -- that matter.....
What gets me, is they'll want to talk on and on, and give you inside stuff....abut music and songs, --that don't mean a thing anyways--. You know, like the "interesting" stories that movies stars have to tell about the trials and tribluations -- about making their latest piece of cr*p! If the movie is good, it should sell itself. If you want to like your cr@ppy movie, just becuase you went through hell to make it --- No Dice -- Too Bad -- Try again Next Time!!
What we need to a station with the credibility to play only the good stuff, and not call fluff -- the right stuff!
WE, the music lovers, have no voice on commercial radio.
But the 'robot' people... well now ! ! They --do-- have a voice on commercial radio!
The advertisers have reached their target! Now, we should all be happy, and enjoy !!
I think not.
R
rebelrawker83
Guest
Neanderpaul said:That all depends on your interpretation of "Hard Rock/Metal/AOR"
See, we still live in a research driven industry, and most of the artists/titles that would make up a great "Hard Rock" station won't "test." In order to do a station of this kind, it would have to programmed by people who truly know the music (and lifestyle that accompanied it) inside-out. Otherwise, we'll get the same 4 Motley songs, same 5 AC/DC songs etc.
The problem lies with the fact that niche formatted stations, and that's what you're asking about, need to be credible. And credibility doesn't come from test scores. A song like "Say What You Will" from Fastway will never score, but when heard by those who love that music, they react. We run stations more on data and less on "gut" because the few people who know music that programmed, were systematically replaced by marketing people with Selector skills.
Those niche formats have to be run by music people, and they need to be trusted by those who placed the station's control in their hands. That's just too much to ask in this current radio landscape. Wall St. and corporate don't have the time, money, or patience to rebuild what's been broken down and mechanized for the past 2 decades. That's just the reality of the world we exist within.
The people who love Hard Rock & Metal love it because they feel a connection to it. There's passion. And we as an industry don't elicit that response from the listeners the way we should. It's one of the major disappointments I found with my XM. The Boneyard is a great idea that's faltering because they're missing the point. Any station that caters to a specific niche audience needs to be staffed by people who can tell you every guy that's ever played in Loudness. Just in case they're playing "Let It Go" and it's Minoru Nihara's birthday. Or, Obsession's playing some crap club in Tunafish Montana, and Mike Vescera, who replaced Minoru, is back in the band. You can't just play those songs. You must tie them in to the listener. They're there not to use the radio as background noise, or for service elements. They really LOVE the music. That's why they're coming, and you've got them wanting to love the station. But you're just reading liners, and backselling. There's no content. And trust me...Most people who love that music can name everyone in Iron Maiden, but couldn't tell you who the drummer in Nickelback is. Why? Because those bands had personality, and today we just throw everything against the wall for 6 weeks, and move on. We don't entrench the audience into the music.
The listeners of those niche formatted stations want to know this stuff. Not because they need to, but to know that the station they're listening to is genuine and lives the lifestyle that they (the listener) loved so much.
To ask management to trust that things would be done differently, and to find people to staff this station would take time, effort, and money. The product is there. The talent who know & love that stuff (Remy Maxwell, Long Paul, Eddie Webb, Eddie Trunk, and so many more) are out there and would love to be part of it. There's no lack of people who want to work for a station like that. There appears to be, based upon the amount of programming hours VH-1 & VH-1 Classic devote to the older Hard Rock, enough audience desire.
It would just take us back into an age where control would have to be ceded to individual talent whose knowledge of the product must be vast, and credible. And that's a whole lot to ask your average GM, or PD in 2007 to gamble their job on.
We, as an industry have become so safe, we're scared to try anything. I often wonder if Ahmet Ertegun threw "Physical Graffiti" on the turntable and plotted which single would go for 6 week increments, or if Mark Parenteau, or Jeff Gonzer just took the full length and said "Hey..new Zeppelin...let's pick a song and listen"
How do you think those 300 songs became so popular that they tested? Someone had to play them, and seed passion into those that were listening. Isn't that why we got into this?
That Hard Rock station you asked about a month ago when I started writing this, would have to be able to do the same with "Running From The Law" by Riot.
Might be a little too much to ask.
...but I'd certainly want to work there. If not, I'd listen
Could not have said it better myself.
- Status