Just saw the fall Wilmington numbers posted. Way to go WJBR! It's Christmas all the time at 99.5.
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Wilmington Fall Ratings
- Thread starter radio19720
- Start date
In the on going ratings race between WDEL and WILM this time last year the 12+ numbers showed WDEL with a 0.3 lead over WILM. Last Spring WDEL moved to a 1.0 lead. The latest 12+ numbers how WDEL having on a 0.1 lead over WILM.
It would be great for someone, who isn't employed at either WDEL or WILM who have access to the real numbers and data could simply chime in and say without using numbers as that isn't allowed, but could say which AM/PM news block is winning, Watson vs Messitti who is winning, Jensen vs Rush/Hannity, who is winning. The 12+ numbers seem to show a pretty much even split. My guess is WILM may skew older than WDEL, but probably not by much.
The problem I have with having WDEL or WILM employees offer the data is they generally only note where their respective station is a head and not where it is behind so it offers a skewed view. I understand the reasons, but this thread isn't about spin or trying to build up your station over your cross town rival. All of us (former radio folks and radio geeks) just want the facts as they are, minus the spin.
However, it is interesting to note that at least when I listen to WDEL or WILM, WDEL has far more spots where as WILM airs far more PSA's implying that possibly WDEL's sales force is better at closing the deal, as both stations essentially have the same market share of the news/talk audience for Wilmington.
It looks like WXCY continues to dominate the Country airwaves even though all three country stations lost significant numbers.
Other info that would be interesting to hear, what sort of ratings does WHYY-FM get in Wilmington (as compared to WDEL and WILM). What sort of rating does WXHL-FM (non-comm) CCM station get compared to that Christian AC station (forget the calls) that ranked just below WOGL.
If you have any of this info feel free to share without using numbers.
It would be great for someone, who isn't employed at either WDEL or WILM who have access to the real numbers and data could simply chime in and say without using numbers as that isn't allowed, but could say which AM/PM news block is winning, Watson vs Messitti who is winning, Jensen vs Rush/Hannity, who is winning. The 12+ numbers seem to show a pretty much even split. My guess is WILM may skew older than WDEL, but probably not by much.
The problem I have with having WDEL or WILM employees offer the data is they generally only note where their respective station is a head and not where it is behind so it offers a skewed view. I understand the reasons, but this thread isn't about spin or trying to build up your station over your cross town rival. All of us (former radio folks and radio geeks) just want the facts as they are, minus the spin.
However, it is interesting to note that at least when I listen to WDEL or WILM, WDEL has far more spots where as WILM airs far more PSA's implying that possibly WDEL's sales force is better at closing the deal, as both stations essentially have the same market share of the news/talk audience for Wilmington.
It looks like WXCY continues to dominate the Country airwaves even though all three country stations lost significant numbers.
Other info that would be interesting to hear, what sort of ratings does WHYY-FM get in Wilmington (as compared to WDEL and WILM). What sort of rating does WXHL-FM (non-comm) CCM station get compared to that Christian AC station (forget the calls) that ranked just below WOGL.
If you have any of this info feel free to share without using numbers.
Someone contacted me to offer some additional data points to consider in our discussion.
The bottom line is, that this was a great book for Rush and Hannity on both WILM and WPHT (in terms of their piece of the Wilmington market as Philly's WPHT's solid signal into the Wilmington Metro area pulls some listeners possibly away from WILM for Rush and Hannity). Those were the parts of the day where it appears that WILM is ahead of WDEL. Mid day 10-3 WILM is ahead of WDEL by almost double. PM drive 3-7pm WILM also is ahead of WDEL by 0.6 so they are much closer than during the mid day hours.
In the AM drive (6-10), WDEL is ahead of WILM by approx. 3x. So it would appear from that number that considerably more folks are getting their Delaware News in the morning from WDEL rather than WILM. In the PM hours after 7pm WDEL is ahead of WILM by about 0.6, and the overnight WDEL is ahead of WILM with approx 0.3.
Those dayparts where WILM is ahead of WDEL could be due to Rush and Hannity as those shows have solid numbers. I find it interesting that WDEL continues to air Rick Jensen, local conservative talker opposite Rush rather than having the liberal leaning Al Messitti opposite Rush and moving Jensen opposite the liberal John Watson on WILM. I guess, one thought as to why not do that is possibly Rick Jensen hopefully would pull in some conservatives where as if Messitti was on during Rush all the conservative listeners would go to WILM. That might imply that there are more conservative talk listeners in the Wilmington market than liberal ones. I'm sure someone has the demo data that could prove or disprove that sort of assumption. However, MY Guess is, that WDEL's mid day numbers would be better with Messitti airing opposite of Rush or some sort of topical non-political talk show (local or from the bird) to pull in a totally different piece of the audience during Rush and Hannity, but that's simply my opinion.
As to age of listeners both WDEL and WILM have the same numbers of 35-64. WDEL beats out WILM in *** by a very substantial number.
So, both stations have their strength and their weaknesses. One other thing I noticed with the ratings is that many stations serving the Wilmington market seemed to lose listeners (possibly that's what made the huge increase for WJBR during the Christmas season?).
It will be interesting to see if or what WSTW does to regain their position as being tied for #1 with WJBR. They've been in a bit of slump for a while now resting in the #3 slot. Does that mean a possible format change or simply a tweaking of what they are now doing.
I found DX's comment, on another thread, about WSTW's graffitte radio HD2 using live talent at night to be interesting. Could this format be what is coming to 93.7 as a replacement for what's airing now? It is interesting that Delmarva would sink extra money in live talent for a station that is only available online and HD2, unless they are really pulling in both listeners and spot revenue.
Any thoughts or comments or additional insights, anyone?
The bottom line is, that this was a great book for Rush and Hannity on both WILM and WPHT (in terms of their piece of the Wilmington market as Philly's WPHT's solid signal into the Wilmington Metro area pulls some listeners possibly away from WILM for Rush and Hannity). Those were the parts of the day where it appears that WILM is ahead of WDEL. Mid day 10-3 WILM is ahead of WDEL by almost double. PM drive 3-7pm WILM also is ahead of WDEL by 0.6 so they are much closer than during the mid day hours.
In the AM drive (6-10), WDEL is ahead of WILM by approx. 3x. So it would appear from that number that considerably more folks are getting their Delaware News in the morning from WDEL rather than WILM. In the PM hours after 7pm WDEL is ahead of WILM by about 0.6, and the overnight WDEL is ahead of WILM with approx 0.3.
Those dayparts where WILM is ahead of WDEL could be due to Rush and Hannity as those shows have solid numbers. I find it interesting that WDEL continues to air Rick Jensen, local conservative talker opposite Rush rather than having the liberal leaning Al Messitti opposite Rush and moving Jensen opposite the liberal John Watson on WILM. I guess, one thought as to why not do that is possibly Rick Jensen hopefully would pull in some conservatives where as if Messitti was on during Rush all the conservative listeners would go to WILM. That might imply that there are more conservative talk listeners in the Wilmington market than liberal ones. I'm sure someone has the demo data that could prove or disprove that sort of assumption. However, MY Guess is, that WDEL's mid day numbers would be better with Messitti airing opposite of Rush or some sort of topical non-political talk show (local or from the bird) to pull in a totally different piece of the audience during Rush and Hannity, but that's simply my opinion.
As to age of listeners both WDEL and WILM have the same numbers of 35-64. WDEL beats out WILM in *** by a very substantial number.
So, both stations have their strength and their weaknesses. One other thing I noticed with the ratings is that many stations serving the Wilmington market seemed to lose listeners (possibly that's what made the huge increase for WJBR during the Christmas season?).
It will be interesting to see if or what WSTW does to regain their position as being tied for #1 with WJBR. They've been in a bit of slump for a while now resting in the #3 slot. Does that mean a possible format change or simply a tweaking of what they are now doing.
I found DX's comment, on another thread, about WSTW's graffitte radio HD2 using live talent at night to be interesting. Could this format be what is coming to 93.7 as a replacement for what's airing now? It is interesting that Delmarva would sink extra money in live talent for a station that is only available online and HD2, unless they are really pulling in both listeners and spot revenue.
Any thoughts or comments or additional insights, anyone?
From outside the market looking in (I'm in Ocean County NJ and can get WSTW and WDEL very well on my car radio, WJBR decently, WVLT decently (if you want to count them as Wilmington), and WXHL has a simulcast here via WVBH), I cannot get any other Wilmington stations (WJKS/WILM/etc.).
WSTW sounds bland and boring by day and decent by night. The "hotter" night time sound is very good.
WDEL sounds like a clone of every other generic talk station out there but I think the local news is a saving grace.
WJBR sounds like a decent AC but not too different than WBEB.
WVLT, when it is playing Oldies sounds good but who can tolerate all the random brokered programming?
WXHL sounds awesome, energetic and well presented. Sounds like a top-notch CHR if you ignore the religious undertones.
WSTW sounds bland and boring by day and decent by night. The "hotter" night time sound is very good.
WDEL sounds like a clone of every other generic talk station out there but I think the local news is a saving grace.
WJBR sounds like a decent AC but not too different than WBEB.
WVLT, when it is playing Oldies sounds good but who can tolerate all the random brokered programming?
WXHL sounds awesome, energetic and well presented. Sounds like a top-notch CHR if you ignore the religious undertones.
An interesting post Jersey Shor. Have you listened, online to WSTW's HD2 graffiti radio? If so, what were your impressions?
I guess the only difference now between WJBR and WBEB (at least to my ear) is WJBR still airs Delilah in the evenings. Both are popular AC stations for their respective markets (Wilmington for WJBR and Philly for WBEB.
Giving WDEL some points for doing all live and local during the day time hours rather than simply airing syndicated talk from the bird as most talk stations do. I agree with you WDEL's local news coverage is very well done and given the fact that Wilmington doesn't have any local TV news available (see Philly TV section of RI for more details on that topic) it, as well as WILM's local news coverage are the only places to get Wilmington news other than the News Journal papers. Kind of sad for a market (#76) that has just under 600,000 listeners/viewers when other much smaller markets, like Salisbury (#150) have two TV stations providing their much smaller population plenty of local TV news coverage. Oddly enough, the FCC doesn't seem to see a problem with this, but that is a topic for that Philly TV thread.
I'm fascinated by your interest in WXHL (WXHL sounds awesome, energetic and well presented. Sounds like a top-notch CHR if you ignore the religious undertones./color]. I believe their format would be considered CCM (Contemporary Christian Music). Are you a religious person or does WXHL's music appeal to you so well that you'd ignore the religious aspects of the station to hear the music which does have spiritual lyrics, spot breaks, and programs? Generally, religious oriented stations appeal only to religious listeners. Or did you listen, only because of this discussion just to hear what they were doing and you'd not tune in again?
Thanks for sharing your insights of the Wilmington stations you've heard.
I guess the only difference now between WJBR and WBEB (at least to my ear) is WJBR still airs Delilah in the evenings. Both are popular AC stations for their respective markets (Wilmington for WJBR and Philly for WBEB.
Giving WDEL some points for doing all live and local during the day time hours rather than simply airing syndicated talk from the bird as most talk stations do. I agree with you WDEL's local news coverage is very well done and given the fact that Wilmington doesn't have any local TV news available (see Philly TV section of RI for more details on that topic) it, as well as WILM's local news coverage are the only places to get Wilmington news other than the News Journal papers. Kind of sad for a market (#76) that has just under 600,000 listeners/viewers when other much smaller markets, like Salisbury (#150) have two TV stations providing their much smaller population plenty of local TV news coverage. Oddly enough, the FCC doesn't seem to see a problem with this, but that is a topic for that Philly TV thread.
I'm fascinated by your interest in WXHL (WXHL sounds awesome, energetic and well presented. Sounds like a top-notch CHR if you ignore the religious undertones./color]. I believe their format would be considered CCM (Contemporary Christian Music). Are you a religious person or does WXHL's music appeal to you so well that you'd ignore the religious aspects of the station to hear the music which does have spiritual lyrics, spot breaks, and programs? Generally, religious oriented stations appeal only to religious listeners. Or did you listen, only because of this discussion just to hear what they were doing and you'd not tune in again?
Thanks for sharing your insights of the Wilmington stations you've heard.
Re: WXHL
I am not religious / spiritual at all, I just think that WXHL (airing on WVBH here in NJ) is presenting a good product in general. The station doesn't seem "preachy" like most religious stations and if you don't pay attention to the words in the music I feel the average person wouldn't even know it is religious.
I do like CHR/Top 40 radio so I guess that plays a role too.
I have not listened to WSTW-HD2 at all.
I am not religious / spiritual at all, I just think that WXHL (airing on WVBH here in NJ) is presenting a good product in general. The station doesn't seem "preachy" like most religious stations and if you don't pay attention to the words in the music I feel the average person wouldn't even know it is religious.
I do like CHR/Top 40 radio so I guess that plays a role too.
I have not listened to WSTW-HD2 at all.
JerseyShor, you make an interesting point about WXHL (WVBH)'s approach to their format.
It mirrors a similar approach that many of the "popular" churches (that target the younger demos) are using today as well. They use very modern rock praise type music and tend to not use "preachy" sermon styles, but rather offer uplifting messages using video clips, music, jokes, almost a "G" rated monologue rather than a sermon (it feels very much like being in a Christian version of the Tonight Show rather than being in a worship service as rather than an organ and choir there is a praise band that really is a Christian Rock Band.
Many of these same churches will avoid "Church speak" religious sounding words, many will even avoid referring directly to the Bible or having bibles in the seats for people to use (these churches rarely if ever have pews), and don't refer to Bible texts in their sermons or if they do it is very low key. Many won't even have a cross or crucifix anywhere in the sanctuary. The pastor dresses in jeans or slacks and sports shirt rather than a coat and tie or a vestments (robes). For someone, like me, who's been a Christian for most of their life, it almost comes across like these churches and possibly a station format like WXHL is almost ashamed of their spiritual heritage.
On the other hand, they could simply be doing, what so many other parts of our society are doing these days, and that is "dumbing" down the message.
In WXHL's (WVBH)'s and this type of churches favor could also be, that as you said you're not religious and would possibly never listen to a "religious" radio station (and by implication you might also not ever darken the door of a church to attend a Sunday service), these "scaled back/low key versions" of Christian Radio and Church might be able to, in a limited way, present to you and other "unchurched" folks out there the Gospel message of Jesus Christ where you might never hear it otherwise. So, there's pluses and minuses for this approach to both Christian Radio and Church, depending on your point of view.
No matter what the viewpoint, it appears that WXHL (The Reach FM from Faith City Church in Christiana Delaware) has done rather well as they have repeaters and stations airing their programming all over the mid-Atlantic area into Ohio and other states ). Quite often those repeaters and stations are in markets where there isn't a Christian station at all or more probably there isn't a CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) formated station available. So WXHL fills a void in those markets.
Of course, as a non-comm their ratings numbers never show, but obviously, the people who listen are voting not just with their radio tuner, but with their wallet as WXHL isn't just a local CCM FM station in New Castle County Delaware, but has become a network of stations serving millions of listeners. It is very possible that WXHL actually has more listeners than any other Delaware radio station (even though most of those listeners may not live in Delaware).
It mirrors a similar approach that many of the "popular" churches (that target the younger demos) are using today as well. They use very modern rock praise type music and tend to not use "preachy" sermon styles, but rather offer uplifting messages using video clips, music, jokes, almost a "G" rated monologue rather than a sermon (it feels very much like being in a Christian version of the Tonight Show rather than being in a worship service as rather than an organ and choir there is a praise band that really is a Christian Rock Band.
Many of these same churches will avoid "Church speak" religious sounding words, many will even avoid referring directly to the Bible or having bibles in the seats for people to use (these churches rarely if ever have pews), and don't refer to Bible texts in their sermons or if they do it is very low key. Many won't even have a cross or crucifix anywhere in the sanctuary. The pastor dresses in jeans or slacks and sports shirt rather than a coat and tie or a vestments (robes). For someone, like me, who's been a Christian for most of their life, it almost comes across like these churches and possibly a station format like WXHL is almost ashamed of their spiritual heritage.
On the other hand, they could simply be doing, what so many other parts of our society are doing these days, and that is "dumbing" down the message.
In WXHL's (WVBH)'s and this type of churches favor could also be, that as you said you're not religious and would possibly never listen to a "religious" radio station (and by implication you might also not ever darken the door of a church to attend a Sunday service), these "scaled back/low key versions" of Christian Radio and Church might be able to, in a limited way, present to you and other "unchurched" folks out there the Gospel message of Jesus Christ where you might never hear it otherwise. So, there's pluses and minuses for this approach to both Christian Radio and Church, depending on your point of view.
No matter what the viewpoint, it appears that WXHL (The Reach FM from Faith City Church in Christiana Delaware) has done rather well as they have repeaters and stations airing their programming all over the mid-Atlantic area into Ohio and other states ). Quite often those repeaters and stations are in markets where there isn't a Christian station at all or more probably there isn't a CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) formated station available. So WXHL fills a void in those markets.
Of course, as a non-comm their ratings numbers never show, but obviously, the people who listen are voting not just with their radio tuner, but with their wallet as WXHL isn't just a local CCM FM station in New Castle County Delaware, but has become a network of stations serving millions of listeners. It is very possible that WXHL actually has more listeners than any other Delaware radio station (even though most of those listeners may not live in Delaware).
J
jhguthlac
Guest
WSTW has billboards on I-95 towards Phillie for their HD2. I could be they are going to pump up the expenditures for that operation in hopes it could catch on. But I don't see more than tweaks for the main station.
Regarding WPHT vs WILM for listening to Rush. I normally listen to WPHT or WABC on-line for Rush. I can't stand WILM because of the poor quality PSA's they run (they have no commercials). WPHT has far better spots on-air and on-line and sounds much better than WILM. The news breaks at the top and bottom of the hour are way superior.
Regarding WPHT vs WILM for listening to Rush. I normally listen to WPHT or WABC on-line for Rush. I can't stand WILM because of the poor quality PSA's they run (they have no commercials). WPHT has far better spots on-air and on-line and sounds much better than WILM. The news breaks at the top and bottom of the hour are way superior.
jhguthlac said:
Same thing with WDOV WRT endless PSA's and poorer sound quality when compared to Baltimore WCBM (my alternative for Rush & Sean). Can't these stations (WILM & WDOV) sell local advertisements?
Or are the PSAs from the networks for local stations to run local ads over? Do WILM & WDOV let the network PSAs run rather than do local insert ads via automation or board ops. ???
Located in Dover I just listen to 680, especially since they got FOX news at the top of the hour.
I believe both WILM and WDOV are automated during Rush with pre-recorded local weather/news updates. During Hannity WILM does have live local weather/news updates/ and traffic reports. My guess is the PSA's are in the computer system and get pulled when there aren't any local spots slated to air during the local avails on these syndicated shows from the bird.
I've heard from some local folks who were involved in Wilmington radio at both WDEL and WILM who said both Rush and Hannity are hard sells in the Wilmington market. Apparently WDEL had more success, but not great success, than WILM in selling local spots during Rush and Hannity as you noted WILM airs mostly PSA's during those shows. It almost makes you wonder if CC Delaware (which would include both WILM and WDOV) even send out sales folks to sell either Rush or Hannity. I've listened to Rush on Rehoboth Beach's WGMD-FM 92.7, and I remember them airing plenty of local spots during Rush. Granted, Sussex County is far more conservative generally than New Castle County and that might explain some of the difference in local spot sales during Rush.
The weird thing is WILM apparently beats out WDEL, ratings wise, during both Rush and Hannity, yet WDEL has far more local spots during those times than WILM. Are New Castle County businesses that uptight about having their product associated with Limbaugh that WILM and apparently WDOV end up airing the show minus local spots? It's sort of a paradox.
I believe both WILM and WDOV both air Fox News on the hour and the Fox Update on the 0:30:00.
I've heard from some local folks who were involved in Wilmington radio at both WDEL and WILM who said both Rush and Hannity are hard sells in the Wilmington market. Apparently WDEL had more success, but not great success, than WILM in selling local spots during Rush and Hannity as you noted WILM airs mostly PSA's during those shows. It almost makes you wonder if CC Delaware (which would include both WILM and WDOV) even send out sales folks to sell either Rush or Hannity. I've listened to Rush on Rehoboth Beach's WGMD-FM 92.7, and I remember them airing plenty of local spots during Rush. Granted, Sussex County is far more conservative generally than New Castle County and that might explain some of the difference in local spot sales during Rush.
The weird thing is WILM apparently beats out WDEL, ratings wise, during both Rush and Hannity, yet WDEL has far more local spots during those times than WILM. Are New Castle County businesses that uptight about having their product associated with Limbaugh that WILM and apparently WDOV end up airing the show minus local spots? It's sort of a paradox.
I believe both WILM and WDOV both air Fox News on the hour and the Fox Update on the 0:30:00.
J
jhguthlac
Guest
During Rush, the air-time during local avails is filled with commercial parities. Often very funny stuff. We used to listen to it in the WDEL news room back in the days that WILM was running Rush on an hour delayed basis. We weren't listening to WILM, but rather the satellite feed.
On the Saturday "Best of Rush" feed, you'll hear one or two of the parities as WILM does not have their clock-template exactly correct.
On the Saturday "Best of Rush" feed, you'll hear one or two of the parities as WILM does not have their clock-template exactly correct.
Every now and then, one of those slips through on WILM during the week too. Frankly, I wish they'd air those commercial parodies rather than the same ole PSA's every day.
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