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WILM's AM drive beating WDEL's AM drive

M

MikefromDelaware

I was listening to Bruce Elliot this week and he mentioned that more people are getting their news and info in the morning on WILM than any other station in Delaware. I take that to mean that WILM is pulling in larger numbers, in this latest book, during Elliot's show vs Peter and Melanie's show on WDEL. I just wonder if what we've discussed before about WDEL doing too many spots too often with too little info during that AM drive time news block has anything to do with that. As I said before, it makes a difference to me, maybe others feel the same way.

The bigger question is, will WDEL take a look at how they're presenting the news/info/features/spots, etc, and revamp their news block format to be more listener friendly.

It's a shame that non-comm numbers don't also show in the ratings, as my guess is WHYY-FM's Morning Edition also pulls in a decent amount of Wilmington market listeners, so really there are three news/info AM drive programs to choose from, WILM, WDEL, and WHYY-FM. It would be interesting to find out how well WHYY-FM does during AM Drive and other times too in Wilmington. Also, because it is FM is it pulling in a younger audience than either WDEL or WILM?
 
Not sure what demos and/or hours that Bruce is looking at, but WDEL beats WILM P12+ and P35-64 M-F 6a-10a in AQH, Cume and Share....and we stand by our statement that WDEL is "Delaware's most listened to station for news, traffic and weather."
 
He could possibly be talking of the combo WILM and WDOV. But he would not have numbers to back that up.

However Mike, your point about the WDEL morning news presentation is accurate. I find the presentation annoying. Not Peter and Melanie themselves, of course, but the layout of the news into teasers. You go far too long without actually hearing what you want to hear. KYW's presentation is far superior.
 
I find WDEL's morning news does not flow. Either take the WILM approach, or the KYW approach, but this story, spot, story spot his disjointed.
 
I don't respond to much here because you are entitled to your opinion, and I'll probably regret being pulled down into the mud, but this "story, spot, story, spot" stuff.....

Do we do traffic and weather together? No. But that's because traffic is usually sponsored and so is weather. Quite frankly, I tried to move some spots around and block the information together - and actually had it on the air that way for a few weeks, but we had to change it back to fulfill the sponsorships. A good problem to have, in my opinion. (Mike, I explained that to you on the phone a few months ago.)

But we have continuous blocks of information (be it news, traffic, etc.) from :58-:05, :07-:10, :15-:18, :30-:33, :34-:40, :45-:48 - give or take on the time because things can run late. And then we end the hour with the longform Loudell Report of The Osgood File.

Do we tease what's coming up after a commercial? Of course. Our livelihood depends on you listening to the commercial and staying with us. And, what newscast doesn't tease?

And, although I haven't listened to KYW in a while (I'm an 1150 P1), I thought our clocks were pretty similar - unless they've made a change that I'm unaware of. They may actually have fewer commercials - giving them more time for information....but we'd have fewer commercials too if we could charge their rates.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to try to change that. But this "story, spot" misconception needed to be pointed out.

There you go. Have at it. Ready...aim...fire...

PS - It's spelled "Mellany."
 
So WDEL has only two blocks per hour that are more than three minutes each.

Story-spot-story may have been an exaggeration. But KYW groups its spots differently with no less than six times per hour when they have four or more minutes of content continuously: 59-05, 7-11, 14-18 and the mirror times at the bottom of the hour.

And KYW gives you Accu Weather 8 times an hour ... a minimum of the 36-hour forecast, with the 5-day forecast 4 of those times an hour. Other threads on this board have complained previously about having to wait too long for weather on WDEL.

I used to live in Wilmington but don't anymore, so I don't hear WDEL. But since I do live near Philadelphia and Chris compared his news clock to KYW's, I thought I'd weigh in.
 
Chris, no one is asking you to get into the mud. None of us here are slinging mud at you or WDEL. Each of us is entitled to their opinion and just because I or some others don't like how WDEL is presenting their AM newsblock isn't slinging mud. Don't take the criticism personally. As I remember you didn't have much time to talk, when I finally caught up with you on the phone.

One suggestion that might make the traffic and weather together work is prior to doing the traffic which you do first on the 9's, give the promo for the advertiser of the traffic, then play the traffic, then give the promo for whoever is sponsoring the weather play the weather, then air both spots. Or air the traffic spot first then traffic with the promo of the weather sponsor play the weather then air the spot. At least there's not such a long wait between the traffic and weather.

The problem is Chris, in the morning most folks are in a rush, the two most important pieces of info they want is the weather and traffic. You may spin it any way you want, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I can only speak to what drives me away from your excellent newscast and it's the how you present your info. I'm not willing to stop moving around the house to wait several minutes for both traffic and weather. That reason alone is why I listen to WILM and not WDEL. I just don't have that kind of time fool around. Nothing personal. I've explained it to you here and on the phone.

I've listened to KYW too and as radiophiler points out, you do get far more info there than on WDEL too. Sure it's a great problem to have, having so many spots. One thing though, its one thing to air all the actual spots, but you've decided that those spot breaks must be a certain length and add PSA's to your already overloaded time allowance for spots. Do during those heavy times of real spots, drop the PSA's give your listeners a break. Air the PSA's during less spot load times. WDEL isn't the only news station any of us can get. You're competing with not just WILM/WDOV, but KYW, and WHYY-FM. Make it too much of a hassle to hear and its easy to switch stations. So you do have an interesting problem. Good Luck. Again, nothing personal, you say to-ma-to and I say tom-a-to.
 
I also do not want to pick a fight, however I find WDEL's traffic reports adding things not needed, for example the info on Pa. If I remember the New Castle market includes New Castle County, Cecil County and Salem County. The addition of Pa is not going to help with your rated area unless it's a major traffic problem that backs up into Delaware. Since you signal to the west is bad, Cecil county doesn't make sense either. Salem County, although you signal does go there is not going to have significant listenership to a Wilmington News Talk station. Keep the Traffic to the main roads, major problems and more on. Personally I think traffic reports are a waste, since if traffic is backed up around Wilmington, there's not much you can do, except put up with it. As for spot load, yes that can be difficult for an AM station, the days of top dollar ads on an AM are gone, except for the KYW's of the world. I do like that WDEL is on 93.7 HD3, however since you want wants to put them in cars (except select expensive ones) there's not much you can do there. One point about the ratings is that generally stations like WILM do better in the Spring becuase of more daylight, so they done suffer from nighttime interference. Though all AM stations have to deal with this, WILM is one of the graveyard frequencies, so it don't go far at night, and the audience for either of these stations is outside of Wilmington, that's where the money is and where the listeners for News/Talk is, not in the city. The fall book will probably show a rebound by WDEL, more power, and Phillies in the payoffs again. Finally WDEL reminds me of WSB in Atlanta a very good local stations, taking the high road with good local talk, not throwing on the satellite to save money like Clear Channel, but maybe it's time to do a morning show like WGMD, where the spots can be incorporated into the programming, and just do two great newscast every hour, dump the sports (those that wants sports are already listening to A SPORTS STATION).
 
KA3KZA: WDEL's traffic reports have picked up on a current fact of life. Many Delawareans work in Philly and vicinity, taking I-95 and the Blue Route every day. I have worked in Philly since 1995, including my current 6+ years in Ridley Park. Of the 14,000 employees at my site, around 35% are from Delaware. Including 95 north and the Blue Route is important. Remember, for 8 years we had a governor who let Delaware bleed jobs. For us to get work, we had to search for jobs in PA.

Chris, there is no intent here to throw mud. Your station produces a great product. I have many fond memories of working there. But we are complaining about how we hear the morning news. That is how it sounds to us.

There have been many improvements to the WDEL presentation in recent years. One issue that I whined about was the weather. In the overnight top of the hour news, Frank would not include a weather forecast. He recorded a "past-cast". At 5am, he would be telling me what the overnight weather had been. But I'm pulling into the parking lot at 5am and need to know the weather forecast for the day. Do I need rain gear or not? The answer I received was that I should have been listening at 4:30am. You can't hear WDEL in Newark at 4:30am! But WILM is coming through. So, guess who I would listen to? The weather problem has been fixed, so now I no longer have to switch between 1150 and 1450. Thanks!
 
One recent morning at 5:35am on WDEL, perhaps last Friday, I heard MacArthur play the prior nite's forecast! I figured out quickly what was going on when the weather guy started out talking about "tonight and tomorrow" instead of "today and tonight."
 
I was listening to Bruce Elliot again this morning on WILM/WDOV and he again made the statement that more people get their news from WILM than any other station in Delaware. With the latest ratings just coming out, I could see him saying that IF the ratings show that. Chris Carl from WDEL says it doesn't. So is Bruce playing fast and loose with the numbers? Or is there something there that Chris isn't telling us.

Frankly, I can't imagine why either would misrepresent the truth as that has a way of catching up with you. I don't know either man, never have met Bruce, but did meet Chris once and he strikes me as a straight shooter.

I did go to the WILM web site and there's nothing there making that claim. I would have thought CC Delaware would have had that in large letters on WILM's website. So maybe its just wishful thinking on Bruce's part, or maybe he doesn't realize that us radio geeks and former radio folks do pay attention. Maybe he was using the basic 12+ numbers where it does have WILM beating out WDEL, but that doesn't get specific as to time as in Bruce's show. WILM probably does beat out WDEL during Rush, but may not beat out WDEL during AM drive. But apparently overall WILM had a better book than WDEL and maybe that's why Bruce is making that claim.
 
Basically, you can open the microphone and say anything you please.

Like you, I don't know Bruce. But Chris is honest. There is no way WILM is beating WDEL in the morning. And the rest of the day? They give you Delaware's news from WRVA in Richmond. Delaware's news leader, huh. Right!
 
Is that where that new voice doing sports and sometimes news on Bruce's show is from, Richmond via WRVA? Is that why Allan Krackower (sp) is no longer at WILM? So CC Delaware is now down to Bruce in Wilmington, Phil Felaciangeli and Christa Cooper in Dover, and that other guy in Virginia? Can't forget John Watson at night.

I've noticed that in the afternoon while Rush is on, Phil Feliciangeli's :05 news capsule after Fox News is pre-recorded, because he's on WDOV at the same time doing a live local newscast including weather after the Fox News. So WDOV is getting more live and local news coverage than WILM. I'd have thought you'd do it the other way around, but maybe CC's making more money in Dover with local spots than in Wilmington.
 
For those of us who remember when WDOV was one of the state's biggest radio revenue earners, the current WILM/WDOV combo is truely disheartening. Two class stations, now combined into one botom feeder. Two news people among the two stations, and they call themselves "Delaware's News Leader"?

When a tornado-like storm hits Wilmington, where do you turn? Certainly not to WRVA-Richmond!
 
Bruce is everyday chanting, We're the #1 news/talk station in Delaware. I guess he doesn't come to RI and doesn't realize that Chris Carl has put us on to the real story. Of course, most of his listeners don't come to RI, so they don't know.

Chris didn't say whether or not WILM beats WDEL during Rush, and my guess is WILM beats out Jensen. Allan probably pulls in non-Rush listeners who want a solid newscast with interviews which Allan is king in Delaware. So WDEL might even beat Rush from 12noon-1pm or come darn close to beating WILM during that hour.

If I were Chris Carl, I'd put Al Messitti on opposite Rush as Al's listeners definitely do not listen to Rush and my guess is WDEL could beat out Beck with Jensen. Yes both are right wingers and both do genuflect in front of the Republican party (that's why John Watson's on at 9pm now instead of 9am as WILM is definitely selling itself a mouth piece for the GOP/conservative underground), BUT Jensen isn't a nut case. He's just a right wing Rush wannabe talk show host (and I personally don't listen to either when if I'm in the mood for right wing talk I just tune in to Rush). But why put a Rush wannabe on during the same time the original is on? That seems like a losing strategy to me. Might as well pull in the loyal opposition (a lib Dem) during that time and possibly beat WILM in both time slots. I'm assuming WDEL with Al beats Beck on WILM. I believe Rick would also beat Beck.
 
I suspect that WGMD could have as many listeners as WILM, making them a favorite for second place in Delaware N/T radio. WDOV is dead.

You bring up an interesting point abut switching Al and Rick.
 
We don't really know how well WDOV is doing as they aren't in a rated market and don't seem to show in OC/Salisbury's ratings. WDSD shows, but isn't near the top tier at all. WDOV's signal in fairness to them probably doesn't penetrate to Salisibury/OC where the bulk of that market's listeners are. Even if WDOV did penetrate Salisbury, there's WGMD-FM airing Rush and probably an Salisbury station as well. On the other hand, I'd assume that WDOV does fine as Kent County's news/talker especially with Elliot and Rush, but after that, its hard to say. But you're probably correct that WDOV is #4 after #1 WDEL, #2 WILM, #3 or tied for 2nd WGMD-FM.

If we ever get PPM in Wilmington and Salisbury, then we'd know really how well both WILM and WGMD are doing. Kind of a shame that 1410 WDOV and 1600 DOVER really aren't counted at all. At least 92.9 WRTX and 94.76 WDSD get counted in both Wilmington and Salisbury. Still I wonder why no diaries are placed in Dover for either Wilmington or Salisbury stations since they can get some of both. There's an entire county, granted the smallest county, being totally ignored by Arbitron.

Another question, are any Wilmington market diaries being distributed in the Middletown area. There's a growing population there and they've got no radio stations to call their own so they are listening to Wilmington, Dover, Philly, and possibly some Baltimore stations.
 
Since Middletown is part of the Wilmington market, just as much as Newark, I would suspect there are diaries there.

Kent county is surveyed. Arbitron also produces a county book. I saw the Kent book back in the mid 90's, but don't remember much about it.
 
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