WINC-FM and B101.5, Huh?

[Slinky]

Over the past couple of days, these two Centennial-owned stations have quietly flipped formats. Both were fairly aggressive Adult Top 40s last week. The past couple of days, they've both gone to an AC format.

WINC's flip I can sort of understand- they've been losing ground to CHR Kiss-FM. There are no AC stations in the Winchester market, so they may have decided it isn't worth it to compete in the CHR arena when AC is wide open.

B101.5, on the other hand, just posted the best ratings I've ever seen it post- #1 in the market. They have little CHR competition in Fredericksburg- 99.3 has a tiny signal and is fairly rhythmic leaning. Why mess with an apparently successful station?

Funny thing is that both stations are still imaging as Adult CHRs. B101.5 is running "Today's Best Music" sweepers into Hall & Oates's "Kiss On My List".

 

[Jkf]

WINC and B101.5 had, for years, an identical playlist. Often, the same currents in the same sequence. Although the two were marketed differently, there was no doubt they were programmed identically.

WINC, instead of capitalizing on its local heritage, has gone with the awful Billy Bush show at night. Bad move. The station decline happened a year or two before the original owners sold. While its DC counterpart, Mix 107.3 actually expanded their playlist, WINC began to go in the opposite route. There are songs from the 1990s that WINC has NEVER STOPPED PLAYING in heavy rotation.

98.3 KISS FM is no prize as a CHR. It's the same plug in and play small-medium market CC Premium Choice programmed CHR that runs on the Eastern Shore. Although, with its limited signal in the Winchester market it does suggest how bad WINC has become for them to reach #2.

B 101.5 has always used Today's Best Music. Go back to the early '90s when WGRQ was successfully running the old ABC/SMN "The Heat" network, B 101.5 dropped a classic hits/rock format to become the dominant "contemporary" sound in Fredericksburg. They even ran SuperRadio's Open House Party for awhile on weekend nights. But the Today's Best Music liners would run overtop old 1980s Phil Collins songs during the workday.

Y99.3 was a decent CHR back in the mid 1990s. It was also a decent alternative rock station. At one point they even used a satellite-fed a/c format. The problem with that station has always been the signal. It fades out in its own market. I think this was originally setup as a repeater frequency for the Richmond/Petersburg urban a/c????

To summarize, neither move for either frequency makes very much sense to me.

 

[atlantaboy]

Wow B101.5 just shot up 8.1-10.1 (into first place) as a CHR-leaning Hot AC...

WINC has been in a free-fall though, so I'm guessing whoever's programming them isn't allowed to flip one and not the other - I feel like those markets are pretty different though, Fredericksburg serving a lot of wealthier suburban "DC bedroom" communities, and Winchester leaning much more rural - honestly, I can't see Fredericksburg without either a Hot AC or a mainstream CHR, so I wouldn't be surprised if 99.3 flips back to mainstream CHR in the next month - if not, I think it's almost definite that someone's gonna start up either a mainstream CHR or Hot AC by the time summer hits

 

[Slinky]

Wow B101.5 just shot up 8.1-10.1 (into first place) as a CHR-leaning Hot AC...

WINC has been in a free-fall though, so I'm guessing whoever's programming them isn't allowed to flip one and not the other - I feel like those markets are pretty different though, Fredericksburg serving a lot of wealthier suburban "DC bedroom" communities, and Winchester leaning much more rural

Yeah, there is no reason these two stations should be tied together. Different markets, different competitive situations. Fredericksburg is a bit more tied to DC, as is reflected in the ratings (more DC stations show up in F-burg).

WINC-FM actually has quite a signal in Loudon County, part of the DC market, but for whatever reason, they choose to ignore that county to focus on Winchester. They could be a factor in DC bedroom communities but choose not to be.

honestly, I can't see Fredericksburg without either a Hot AC or a mainstream CHR, so I wouldn't be surprised if 99.3 flips back to mainstream CHR in the next month - if not, I think it's almost definite that someone's gonna start up either a mainstream CHR or Hot AC by the time summer hits

99.3's not that far away from CHR right now- they're similar to 92.3 Now in NYC. All the pop, dance, and hip-hop hits without the rock. I do wonder if 104.5, which has long struggled as a Country station, would do better in the Adult CHR or Hot AC arena. F-burg listeners at least have an OK signal from DC's 107.3 to tune in to, which was what they had to do the last time 101.5 was in an AC phase (early 2000s I think?).

 

[Slinky]

WINC and B101.5 had, for years, an identical playlist. Often, the same currents in the same sequence. Although the two were marketed differently, there was no doubt they were programmed identically.

In recent years, there has been a difference, with WINC playing more 80's and 90's and B101.5 playing mostly 2000's and beyond. But even then, the currents were mostly the same, and the stations moved together, both getting more aggressive musically for a while, and now both going AC.

As an Adult Top 40, WINC's refusal to let go of the 80's and 90's was a negative, but now that they've dialed back the tempo a bit, the 80's and 90's don't sound so out of place. Interestingly, it's now B101.5 that sounds strange, trying to program an AC format with a tiny list of 2000's gold plus the occasional out-of-place 80's throwback. WINC sounds mildly boring, but B101.5 sounds like one of those Fresh stations (like 94.7 in DC) gone horribly, horribly wrong.

WINC, instead of capitalizing on its local heritage, has gone with the awful Billy Bush show at night. Bad move. The station decline happened a year or two before the original owners sold. While its DC counterpart, Mix 107.3 actually expanded their playlist, WINC began to go in the opposite route. There are songs from the 1990s that WINC has NEVER STOPPED PLAYING in heavy rotation.

True, true. I don't think Billy Bush at night was a huge factor in the decline though. Yeah it's crappy syndicated programming but nights for a Hot AC are a throwaway daypart. I think WINC's problem was always the music. They got used to having no competition and being able to play an unfocused mix of music from the 80's to today. When Kiss came in with a tight, current-focused product, WINC didn't know how to react. They thought the same old stuff would work if they just got a little more aggressive with the currents, which of course sounded even more unfocused.

98.3 KISS FM is no prize as a CHR. It's the same plug in and play small-medium market CC Premium Choice programmed CHR that runs on the Eastern Shore. Although, with its limited signal in the Winchester market it does suggest how bad WINC has become for them to reach #2.

Premium Choice had at least two things going for it over WINC: focused music and Ryan Seacrest (the guy Billy Bush wishes he was, LOL).

 

[atlantaboy]

F-burg listeners at least have an OK signal from DC's 107.3 to tune in to, which was what they had to do the last time 101.5 was in an AC phase (early 2000s I think?).

I wonder if Mix 107.3 could reposition its signal to directly target Northern Virginia (since the areas North of DC can listen to Mix 106.5 out of Baltimore) - that's a lot of extra listeners WRQX could pick up as a result of all this

Come to think of it, Star 94 has a really strong signal towards the suburban communities far north of Atlanta, so I'm not sure why Mix 107.3 can't do the same thing - it almost seems unncessary for Fredericksburg to have any radio stations that target DC suburban listeners

As far as the areas south of Fredericksburg, I guess a Hot AC might not be necessary, just cause Richmond hasn't had a current-based Hot AC in over a decade and their listeners don't seem to mind (for some reason)

 

[Slinky]

I wonder if Mix 107.3 could reposition its signal to directly target Northern Virginia (since the areas North of DC can listen to Mix 106.5 out of Baltimore) - that's a lot of extra listeners WRQX could pick up as a result of all this

Nope, there's a station in Richmond on 107.3 as well.

Even if DC's 107.3 could move south, it wouldn't be worth it for them. They promote themselves heavily as a DC at-work listening choice and would not want to do anything that would jeopardize their signal in DC. It's not worth it to gain Fredericksburg if your signal is all of a sudden not as good as WASH's in DC. Stations like 105.9 and 106.7 are perfectly situated to cover Northern VA but that's a liability in the DC ratings because they can't cover the rest of the market as well.

As far as the areas south of Fredericksburg, I guess a Hot AC might not be necessary, just cause Richmond hasn't had a current-based Hot AC in over a decade and their listeners don't seem to mind (for some reason)

Richmond seems similar to Philadelphia in that regard. It has a dominant AC and every attempt to compete with that AC falls flat. It doesn't help that 103.7 has been an absolutely terrible station for years though. Cox is right up there with Cumulus as one of my least favorite owners. The River is unlistenable for me- I really believe Pop/Alternative stations need currents to stay fresh. The River does seem to be doing better than any other flavor of AC Cox has tried on 103.7 recently, but I imagine it will burn out quickly by just playing the same 90's songs over and over again. It's similar to the "80's and more" trend that was big 10 years ago- decent ratings out of the gate, but quick burnout because it was just the same 80's mellow rock songs over and over again. Cox also had a lot of "80's and more" stations when that was a trend.

WRVQ does sound a little more adult than the average Clear Channel CHR, so that may also be filling the Richmond Hot AC void right now.

 

[atlantaboy]

^Honestly, in the past ten years, Hot AC stations have flipped to mainstream AC in Richmond, Raleigh, and Charlotte, so I wonder if it's the same deal going on in Virginia - the way it was explained to me, too many "target HAC listeners" in the Southeast listen to Country - during times when these areas experienced huge demographic growth (i. e. transplants from the North in their late 20s/early 30s), Hot AC began to flourish - but as these waves of Northern transplants aged into their late 30s and 40s, all these Hot ACs evolved into ACs (Mix 101.5 Raleigh, B103.7/Richmond, 107.9 The Link/Charlotte, and now the Virginia stations)

WRVQ/Richmond does cover some HAC-leaning stuff, but I think that was in response to B103.7 flipping to AC and leaving a hole in the market - the same pattern took place with G105/Raleigh and Kiss 95.1/Charlotte after their respective HACs flipped to AC

As far as Mix 107.3, I wonder if B101.5 would've even existed if there hadn't been that interference from that Richmond station - I kind of feel like since people listen to Star 94 in counties 45 minutes from Atlanta, people would be fine with listening to Mix 107.3 in counties 45 minutes from DC (I wonder if they could simulcast in Northern VA without sacrificing any of their signal downtown - I want to say that Mix 102.9 in Dallas simulcasts on another station about 45 minutes out from Dallas (going East)

 

[Slinky]

As far as Mix 107.3, I wonder if B101.5 would've even existed if there hadn't been that interference from that Richmond station

I wouldn't say 107.3 gets a lot of interference from Richmond. The Richmond station is lower in power. It's similar to when 101.1 existed in both Richmond and DC. DC101 still got ratings in Fredericksburg because it was much stronger than the Richmond station.

 

[shadough]

Ditto on the 107.3 from the south. It really has no effect on Mix107s signal. Before the station at 107.1 popped up in South Jersey (sometime in the late 90's), you could literaly take Mix107.3 from the Philly suburbs all the way to the doorsteps of Richmond (ie: just south of Kings Dominion). I reckon thats about 6 hours of driving, computing average traffic delays on I-95. Their signal is strong in Baltimore, DC and even Northern VA. It certainly reaches Fredricksburg, as to how strong, I'd say mediocre. You probably couldnt get it on a small radio in an office but certainly driving around in a car. Allthough I have definitly noticed that Fredricksburg has always been a city with a LOT of radio interference. Once outside the city limits your ok but in the city, radio reception of any station other than in town stations is a crap shoot.

WINC's signal is a monster, mainly cuz their tower is on top of a mountain. They are recievable in F'burg too. Allthough they don't market too much to the dc burbs of NoVa, they've certainly enjoyed the benefits of their signal reaching that area an grabbing listeners. I certainly listen to them. As for the "B", they began as a small station locally owned (WFVA) back in the mid 80's. They were only receivable in Fredricksburg. Once you drove 20 miles away, the signal was gone. Once owned by a larger broadcasting co., the FCC was petitioned for a signal increase and viola, B-101.5 started showing up in DC books. They are unique in that they serve 2 larger metro area's. I always find it interesting listening to them an hearing 2 traffic reports, a. the commute in an out of DC, b. the commute in an out of Richmond.

Down to the music, I actually liked the direction B101.5 had taken. They sounded much like Mix106.5 in B'more. WINC wasnt quite the same and to me seemed more like a HotAC station should, w/ a few "weeds" thrown in. But now, both stations making a right turn??? Doesnt make sense. A PD is sopposed to "tweak" their format, an tweak it slowly over a period of time so as to not alienate listeners. But to make an about face change like this makes no sense. I also dont understand why both stations needed to change either. I can understand changing one but not both. Well it is what it is, I guess theres not much we can do about it.

 

[DToTheJ]

... I don't think Billy Bush at night was a huge factor in the decline though. Yeah it's crappy syndicated programming but nights for a Hot AC are a throwaway daypart...

Nights are mostly considered a "throwaway daypart" among many other formats, too... Chances are, if it ain't morning or afternoon drive, in most cases, it ain't worth hiring live people to work behind the mic.