Windham County, VT and market assignment

[KML0224]

On both February 8th and March 3rd, I stayed at the Super 8 motel on US Route 5/VT Route 9 in Brattleboro, VT. The "cable" carried ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC and PBS from Boston.

Maybe it's because of viewing habits or because of the Boston area sports teams, but why is Windham County, Vermont a portion of the Boston/Worcester market? Geographically, I believe Brattleboro is closer to Springfield, MA and not Boston. Also, the last time I checked, the capitol of Vermont is Montpelier and not Boston.

Maybe, just maybe, would Keene, NH have something to do with it all, too? I know they're clustered with Brattleboro in many cases when it comes to radio. Maybe if Brattleboro, the largest town in Windham County, wasn't right on the New Hampshire state line, things would be different?

 

[vibe]

I'm not a local in BB but stayed there enough to know the area. My theory is that BB was too far away to receive the Springfield MA UHF's with a decent signal. The Albany stations are blocked by the Green Mountains. The Burlington stations are too far away and the Hanover_Rutland Vt UHF's on 31 and 41 are weak. But if you lived on a hilltop all bets are off. Then it's TV bonanza.
This leaves the Big 4 from Boston. So if one lived in Brattleboro proper AND used an outside antenna system (pre cable) Boston (and Manchester NH on Ch 9) would probably have been their best bet.
I remember staying in a motel in the early 70's about 2-3 mi W of Brattleboro and remember that the OTA reception was terrible. I always like to check to see what the place got for reception.
But we didn't go there to watch TV..

 

[Banjomax]

I'm not a local in BB but stayed there enough to know the area. My theory is that BB was too far away to receive the Springfield MA UHF's with a decent signal.

Depends on which side of the hill you're on. And elevation. I had hills blocking me due south, but I had a clear shot to the southeast. I know some people in town that could ONLY receive 22 and 40.

The Albany stations are blocked by the Green Mountains.

Back in the days of analog, WCDC 19 had the strongest signal in my experience.

The Burlington stations are too far away and the Hanover_Rutland Vt UHF's on 31 and 41 are weak.

True. Though 31 and 41 were stronger than the Springfield U's at my location.

But if you lived on a hilltop all bets are off. Then it's TV bonanza.
This leaves the Big 4 from Boston. So if one lived in Brattleboro proper AND used an outside antenna system (pre cable) Boston (and Manchester NH on Ch 9) would probably have been their best bet.

I actually had better luck with Providence (6, 10 & 12) than Boston. I could never pick up 2 or 7 reliably, but 4 & 5 were OK. No Boston UHF ever made it to my set, though 27 had a decent signal. WMUR reception was iffy at best.

I remember staying in a motel in the early 70's about 2-3 mi W of Brattleboro and remember that the OTA reception was terrible. I always like to check to see what the place got for reception.
But we didn't go there to watch TV..

The observations were made from Brattleboro using a rooftop antenna approx. 700 feet ASL, 1985-2009.

 

[ssetta]

I actually had better luck with Providence (6, 10 & 12) than Boston. I could never pick up 2 or 7 reliably, but 4 & 5 were OK. No Boston UHF ever made it to my set, though 27 had a decent signal. WMUR reception was iffy at best.

That's crazy! How could you get Providence stations up in Vermont?? How good was the reception on those?

 

[sonicdoommario]

TV Markets were assmbled based on over the air ratings way back in the hayday. However, this is beyond painfully obsolete and I really believe the FCC should come up with a new system of determining TV markets.

Because of this, Bristol County, even though in Massachusetts, is not in the Boston market. People where I live want Massachusetts news, politics, and programming, not Rhode Island news, politics, and programming. Boston stations almost never cover any weather or news out of southeastern Vermont, and I'm pretty sure southeastern Vermont residents would rather look to receive their news about their own state. So, Windham County in Vermont, hundreds of miles away from Boston, is guaranteed Boston stations without any questions, while Bristol County in Massachusetts has to fight off the Providence stations with a whip to keep their Boston channels on cable.

Crazy.

 

[KML0224]

The air mileage between Brattleboro (the largest town in Windham County) and Boston is 87 miles. Lumping Windham County with the Albany/Schenectady TV market wouldn't make any sense, since Albany isn't Vermont's capitol either. Springfield, MA is only 52 air miles away from Brattleboro. However, Springfield is culturally tied to Hartford, CT first, then Boston. The only obvious answer here is to put Windham County into the Burlington/Plattsburgh TV market. Neighboring Windsor County, VT is already a part of that market, thanks to White River Junction and WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31.

 

[vibe]

When we lived in Rutland MA, very much a hilltop town,the Providence stations were 40 mi or so SE; we were able to get stations in Hanover NH and Rutland Vt which are 50-60 mi N and NW of Brattleboro. We didn't watch the because they were not that clear and we had at least 4 stronger PBS's and 4 stronger NBC's. Close to 100 mi as the crow flies. On a HH TV and NOT under tropo conditions but a great LOS you could get those clearly. And these were med strength UHF's; using that logic it is possible, with a decent location and rotor antenna to have picked up Providence in some parts of the Brattleboro area.

 

[KML0224]

And yet I don't get a hint of Springfield, MA at my home here in New Britain, CT at all. Channels 22, 40 and 57 were never reliable in the analog days. However, when I lived on the east side of the city 20 years ago, analog channel 22 came in really good and analog channel 40 was slightly snowy, but watchable. I don't remember how analog channel 57 was.

As for the Providence area stations? Maybe if those people were up on Ames Hill in Brattleboro or on top of the big hill on the New Hampshire side? Drawing a straight line, Brattleboro is 98 miles to Rehoboth, MA (analog 10, 12) and 109 miles to Tiverton, RI (analog 6).

 

[kc1ih]

Mountains can do strange things to signals. Park your car in downtown Manchester Center, VT, tune the radio to 89.1, and WEVO in Concord, NH comes in like a local. Probably it’s bouncing off Mt. Equinox.

 

[NHRadio]

I lived in Windham county in 1990 and the networks all were from Boston, but we got WNNE(?) channel 31 from Hartford VT

 

[WEFWradio]

Boston stations almost never cover any weather or news out of southeastern Vermont, and I'm pretty sure southeastern Vermont residents would rather look to receive their news about their own state. Crazy.

The air mileage between Brattleboro (the largest town in Windham County) and Boston is 87 miles. Lumping Windham County with the Albany/Schenectady TV market wouldn't make any sense, since Albany isn't Vermont's capitol either. Springfield, MA is only 52 air miles away from Brattleboro. However, Springfield is culturally tied to Hartford, CT first, then Boston. The only obvious answer here is to put Windham County into the Burlington/Plattsburgh TV market. Neighboring Windsor County, VT is already a part of that market, thanks to White River Junction and WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31.

OTOH, Burlington stations don't particularly care about anything but a major story in the Brattleboro area either. Even St. J is a bit of a stretch.

 

[KML0224]

I know it never will be, but I wonder how different things would be if Brattleboro was one of those cities with 100,000 people? Maybe if southern New Hampshire ever became its own market once and for all, Windham County could be a part of it?

 

[sonicdoommario]

Boston stations almost never cover any weather or news out of southeastern Vermont, and I'm pretty sure southeastern Vermont residents would rather look to receive their news about their own state. Crazy.

The air mileage between Brattleboro (the largest town in Windham County) and Boston is 87 miles. Lumping Windham County with the Albany/Schenectady TV market wouldn't make any sense, since Albany isn't Vermont's capitol either. Springfield, MA is only 52 air miles away from Brattleboro. However, Springfield is culturally tied to Hartford, CT first, then Boston. The only obvious answer here is to put Windham County into the Burlington/Plattsburgh TV market. Neighboring Windsor County, VT is already a part of that market, thanks to White River Junction and WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31.

OTOH, Burlington stations don't particularly care about anything but a major story in the Brattleboro area either. Even St. J is a bit of a stretch.

Ah, ok, thanks for the insight. Yeah, it doesn't help for Brattleboro that the only in-state DMA is on the other side of Vermont. So the Brattleboro area is kind of placed in a lose-lose situation when it comes to TV markets. Another example is that during election season the Boston stations don't cover Vermont politics or anything.

 

[BRNout]

Boston stations almost never cover any weather or news out of southeastern Vermont, and I'm pretty sure southeastern Vermont residents would rather look to receive their news about their own state. Crazy.

The air mileage between Brattleboro (the largest town in Windham County) and Boston is 87 miles. Lumping Windham County with the Albany/Schenectady TV market wouldn't make any sense, since Albany isn't Vermont's capitol either. Springfield, MA is only 52 air miles away from Brattleboro. However, Springfield is culturally tied to Hartford, CT first, then Boston. The only obvious answer here is to put Windham County into the Burlington/Plattsburgh TV market. Neighboring Windsor County, VT is already a part of that market, thanks to White River Junction and WNNE-TV (NBC) channel 31.

OTOH, Burlington stations don't particularly care about anything but a major story in the Brattleboro area either. Even St. J is a bit of a stretch.

Ah, ok, thanks for the insight. Yeah, it doesn't help for Brattleboro that the only in-state DMA is on the other side of Vermont. So the Brattleboro area is kind of placed in a lose-lose situation when it comes to TV markets. Another example is that during election season the Boston stations don't cover Vermont politics or anything.

Fortunately, they can pretty much all receive WCAX-3 and WNNE-31, both of which provide full news coverage of Vermont politics. I thought that WCAX even had a translator in the Brattleboro area.

 

[KML0224]

Now to bump my own thread: I haven't been to Vermont in 4 years. I know NBC of Boston and the old channel 31 of WRJ is now CW in Montpelier. Channel 19 of Adams, MA is no more. How is reception over the air in Brattleboro now? Nada?
🤔🙄📺

 

[IM42A]

Reading this, I'm reminded of Fulton County PA, which is in the Washington DC market more or less by default. It is a difficult reception area under any circumstances, but DC stations have been historically viewed as far west as Mineral County WV (totally cable-driven, as OTA reception of DC stations is impossible). Add to this, Washington is a big city, the nation's capital, and the news is more "interesting" than something coming from Altoona or Harrisburg that is of only limited interest to people in Fulton County. Also, there are simply more stations in DC, and even in the 1960s --- when viewing habits probably crystallized --- there were four major VHF commercial stations.