M
mostb1
Guest
calguy said:
I can't wait to see some of the comments on this board as more of the mandates get implemented at Clear Channel L.A. over the next few weeks. Do we all like our radio to sound like an iPod?
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Winter 2007 Phase II Arbitrends
- Thread starter calguy
- Start date
I can't wait to see some of the comments on this board as more of the mandates get implemented at Clear Channel L.A. over the next few weeks. Do we all like our radio to sound like an iPod?
S
StopWhining
Guest
calguy said:
Thought that might shut you down. But thanks for playing.
StopWhining said:
Share range is a function of the number of stations in a market, not the quality of those stations. Particularly, it is a function of the number of viable (full coverage) stations in the market. If there are 75 stations in the market (as there are in the LA MSA) then 100 shares will be divided among 75 contenders. The viable signals will take most of that... there are 26 viable FMs per BIA and about 6 to 7 AMs are truly viable. So they will take about 80 shares among them, or something like an average of 2.2 share points each. So being #1, like KOST and KLVE are tied for, means each station is overperforming by about 100% or more!
Interestingly, the tie for #1 is between the two mainstream AC's in the market...
In a rich competitive market, they are tied for #1. That is a major achievement. Particularly, the February number indicates that the station has "life after Christmas" and is getting even better.
When we have everything from KKGO to KROQ to KOST to KDAy to KPWR to KLVE to KSCA, the stations are hardly the same flavor. Some stations are well done, others do not hit their target; the bad ones will improve and the best ones will be fragmented.
As all stations, collectively become better and formats fragment, the range between #1 and #25 in LA will become even tighter. This is the effect of competiton, not disintegration of the individual stations.
If the February number is an indication and if it holds, the KOST programming team can be called enormously successful.
P.S. Unless you are a woman, you are not supposed to be KOST's primary target, anyway.
S
StopWhining
Guest
[/quote]
Thought that might shut you down. But thanks for playing.
[/quote]
Didn't shut me down. I just a have better things to do than to keep replying to your posts. Besides, David has given a definitive answer above...
[/quote]
He said, as replied to another one of my posts. hehe
This may come as a surprise to you, but David is not God. Just because he says something does not mean it is 100% accurate or "definitive". While I agree with some of what David said, I also believe his response was spoken like a true consultant. Since he cannot make the product better, he insists the product is not only great, but cannot be improved. WAKE UP! CONSULTANTS AND PROGRAMMERS HAVE TO TAKE THAT POSITION, OTHERWISE, THEY ARE BASICALLY ADMITTING THEY ARE NOT THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB. And I may be mistaken, but isn't David affiliated with the Spanish station that tied KOST for #1?
Thought that might shut you down. But thanks for playing.
[/quote]
Didn't shut me down. I just a have better things to do than to keep replying to your posts. Besides, David has given a definitive answer above...
[/quote]
He said, as replied to another one of my posts. hehe
This may come as a surprise to you, but David is not God. Just because he says something does not mean it is 100% accurate or "definitive". While I agree with some of what David said, I also believe his response was spoken like a true consultant. Since he cannot make the product better, he insists the product is not only great, but cannot be improved. WAKE UP! CONSULTANTS AND PROGRAMMERS HAVE TO TAKE THAT POSITION, OTHERWISE, THEY ARE BASICALLY ADMITTING THEY ARE NOT THE BEST PERSON FOR THE JOB. And I may be mistaken, but isn't David affiliated with the Spanish station that tied KOST for #1?
StopWhining said:
Look at it this way: if you put 32 to 33 of the best programmers on the 32 to 33 viable LA signals, they will create the best stations that you can ever have. Assuming each is pretty mass appeal, and only overlap on fringes, each station will have about a 2.2 share... all 33 of them. You would have 33 of the world's best radio stations, and because each is so well done, none would score a difinitive win.
Already LA has many truly great radio statons, including KFI, KYSR, KIIS, KOST, KROQ, KRTH, KLOS, KTWV, KJLH, KPWR, KSCA, KLVE, KBUE, KSSE, KRCD, KXOL and KCBS. The other viable FMs are trying to make their place, and there will always be some station in a turnaround or disaster situation... that is the real world where tastes change and songs burn out and there are ethnic issues as well as age imbalances, differences in signals, etc.
That "Spanish station" is KLVE, which is probably the best performing staiton in LA of the last 12 years! Amazing, you criticize a market and me, personally, and yet are oblivious of the calls of the market's leading station. That does not do too much for your cred, man.
Yes, I have been with KLVE since 1995 when I was a day to day part of the programming team. Now I am involved with all stations in the company, but not as a consultant. KLVE has been imitated and compied from Fresno to Mexico City, and has been #1 or #2 25-54 in about 42 of the last 48 Arbitron books; if you consider that only 25% of LA shareres are Spanish language shares, then KLVE has a 20 share among its target, and does better than all the 17 or 18 stations that compete in this segment.
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StopWhining
Guest
<<Look at it this way: if you put 32 to 33 of the best programmers on the 32 to 33 viable LA signals, they will create the best stations that you can ever have.>>
That's a great idea. We should try that sometime, instead of putting interns behind the wheel.
Assuming each is pretty mass appeal, and only overlap on fringes, each station will have about a 2.2 share... all 33 of them. You would have 33 of the world's best radio stations, and because each is so well done, none would score a difinitive win.>>
OR, because each is so bland and unoriginal, no one would score a definitive loss. It works both ways.
<<Already LA has many truly great radio statons, including KFI, KYSR, KIIS, KOST, KROQ, KRTH, KLOS, KTWV, KJLH, KPWR, KSCA, KLVE, KBUE, KSSE, KRCD, KXOL and KCBS.>>
About a third of those stations WERE truly great radio stations at one time, but not today. (Three of the first seven you mentioned, IMO) AND, might I add, I love how you mentioned pretty much every one of Univision's stations. LOL THAT does not do too much for YOUR cred, man.
<<That "Spanish station" is KLVE, which is probably the best performing staiton in LA of the last 12 years! Amazing, you criticize a market and me, personally, and yet are oblivious of the calls of the market's leading station.>>
First of all, I did not attack you personally. Do not try to make this into something it is not. As far as cricizing the market, is this not a Los Angeles Radio discussion board? Second, excuse me for using the words "the Spanish station that tied KOST for #1" instead of using the actual call letters. I did not realize failing to mention it by name would bruise your ego so. My bad. STEVE HOLT!!!
That's a great idea. We should try that sometime, instead of putting interns behind the wheel.
Assuming each is pretty mass appeal, and only overlap on fringes, each station will have about a 2.2 share... all 33 of them. You would have 33 of the world's best radio stations, and because each is so well done, none would score a difinitive win.>>
OR, because each is so bland and unoriginal, no one would score a definitive loss. It works both ways.
<<Already LA has many truly great radio statons, including KFI, KYSR, KIIS, KOST, KROQ, KRTH, KLOS, KTWV, KJLH, KPWR, KSCA, KLVE, KBUE, KSSE, KRCD, KXOL and KCBS.>>
About a third of those stations WERE truly great radio stations at one time, but not today. (Three of the first seven you mentioned, IMO) AND, might I add, I love how you mentioned pretty much every one of Univision's stations. LOL THAT does not do too much for YOUR cred, man.
<<That "Spanish station" is KLVE, which is probably the best performing staiton in LA of the last 12 years! Amazing, you criticize a market and me, personally, and yet are oblivious of the calls of the market's leading station.>>
First of all, I did not attack you personally. Do not try to make this into something it is not. As far as cricizing the market, is this not a Los Angeles Radio discussion board? Second, excuse me for using the words "the Spanish station that tied KOST for #1" instead of using the actual call letters. I did not realize failing to mention it by name would bruise your ego so. My bad. STEVE HOLT!!!
StopWhining said:
Ha your exclamation is very Arresting!
I sometimes referred to David as Cliff Claven and at the time he had no idea who that was.
StopWhining said:
So... because a person is a new PD it means they are bad? In other areas of the arts, talent is recognized in the teens and early 20's... so what is so special in this case that a person can not be a "natural" in a short time?
Anecdotally, on my first PD gig at age 17 I beat 40 other stations within 6 months of going on the air. Previously, I had been an intern, and before that, a board op and bathroom cleaning specialist.
You are assuming that nobody has any talent in the market. Let's start with Kevin at KROQ and KCBS... one of, if not the, best PD in America. And we have some excellent programming and PDs at stations like Power, The Wave, KOST, etc. The fact that the market has $1.1 billion in revenue allows staitons to pay vastly more than even New York and nearly anyone who is career oriented wants to be in LA.
They all are very good stations. I mention KLVE because of being #1 or #2 25-54 for at least 40 of the last 48 books... KSCA for being #1 or #2 in the same demo pretty consistently since 1997, and KRCD/V for averageing over a 3 share 25-54 despite covering less than 25% of the market and less than 35% of the population. Could you do that? The reason I mentioned th eother stations, too, is that they are consistent sales-demo ratings achievers, with a good tradition of maintaining position or correcting any problems very fast (another sign of competency).
In case you did not know, it is vastly harder to stay #1 than it is to get there.
Calling a person who is not a consultant a consultant, in a context that is anti-programming consultants, sure sounded like an insult to me. But what do I know... we were just the only radio company in the US to get an A grade on the Lehman Bros ratings delivery analysis not just once but twice last year.
Remember, ratings are intended to generate sales. This is a business intended to make money, not a museum where art can exist for art's sake.
Finally, were I to have referred to KJLH as "that Black station" I think anyone would senst that such a statement was dismisive or derisive; in the case of KLVE there are about 18 Spanish staitons in LA and it is not obvious to anyone who has not seen the ratings which one might be the ongoing #1 station for the last year.
Of course, I have no idea who Steve Holt is, so you will have to explain that one.
I agree that KBIG is a very schizophrenic radio station; between Delilah, 'Thump Radio', Casey's Hot 20 on Sunday mornings, and the 1980's edition of 'Kid Kelly's Backtrax USA", the station is essentially all over the map.
But it is also being programmed in such a manner, thanks to the explosion of DEFENSIVE programming in radio since 'clusterization' came into vogue in the nineties, in a manner which snags adults who may or may not listen to KOST but need a punchier station to listen to without the rap/rhythmic stuff on KIIS, while making the launch and existence of Movin even less relevant.
If memory serves, KIIS, KPWR, KOST and KLVE have all had at least an eight share as market leaders since KIIS hit 10.0 in the fall of 1984, when CHR/Pop was a mass-appeal format.
Granted, none of those stations will ever hit 8.0 again, but all are doing very well in the market, in spite of ratings which are half (or less) of what they were at their respective peaks, and their 25-54 numbers (with the possible exception of KPWR) aren't too shabby either.
So yeah, the stations here are overconsulted and/or overresearched, with librarires that are too small to encourage lengthier TSLs (except for JACK-FM, and to a lesser extent, KRTH) but that's not a problem just in LA.
But it is also being programmed in such a manner, thanks to the explosion of DEFENSIVE programming in radio since 'clusterization' came into vogue in the nineties, in a manner which snags adults who may or may not listen to KOST but need a punchier station to listen to without the rap/rhythmic stuff on KIIS, while making the launch and existence of Movin even less relevant.
If memory serves, KIIS, KPWR, KOST and KLVE have all had at least an eight share as market leaders since KIIS hit 10.0 in the fall of 1984, when CHR/Pop was a mass-appeal format.
Granted, none of those stations will ever hit 8.0 again, but all are doing very well in the market, in spite of ratings which are half (or less) of what they were at their respective peaks, and their 25-54 numbers (with the possible exception of KPWR) aren't too shabby either.
So yeah, the stations here are overconsulted and/or overresearched, with librarires that are too small to encourage lengthier TSLs (except for JACK-FM, and to a lesser extent, KRTH) but that's not a problem just in LA.
Marv-L.A. said:
The highest KLVE ever got was Winter, 1996 and that was a 7.2, good for #1. A year later, KSCA also had just above a 7. Since then, nobody has broken the 7's, and in the last 5 years, only a couple of times we have seen a 6 (KLVE has done it in trends a couple of times recently, but not in a full book).
High 4's is enough for a 12+ #1 these days. The playing field has leveled as stations have overall learned how to fragment the big players.
Very few LA stations have consultants... especially when you have PDs like Kevin Weatherly in the market. And research simply finds out what listeners want. When you have more fragmented formats, the libraries tend to be rather focused. Stations find that when they expand the list, the TSL goes down... there is only one occasional top 10 station, KRCD that consistently "works" with a library in excess of 1200 songs.
T
TheLaffer
Guest
StopWhining said:
Is that where PDs in the 2nd largest market are coming from...the INTERN dept. WoW
TheLaffer said:
Is that where PDs in the 2nd largest market are coming from...the INTERN dept. WoW [/quote]
Stella has been there a long time, and trained with Jhani... not a bad way to learn. And her February (extrap) nubers were the best the station has had in a decade.
Saying a person is not capable of being a PD after years of working at the same staiton (instead of becoming a radio gypsy and U-hauling their ass all over America) is negating talent. I have seen fresh PDs take dogs to #1 and I have seen veteran run of the mill PDs never make an impact no matter where they go.
LA, as a radio market, is actually #1.
TheLaffer said:StopWhining said:
So someone who started out as an intern 14 years ago and is now a program director having moved up through the ranks at one station is somehow un-worthy of their success? Everyone starts somewhere. Most in radio start as interns or unpaid employees and work their way up. That's how I started in commercial radio. This whole "intern" thing sounds more like jealousy. This is typical. Someone becomes successful and are therefore a target of those who somehow resent that success.
For the record according to Don Barrett's LA Radio Stella Schwartz also did on-air work in the Inland Empire while working her way up at KOST.
S
StopWhining
Guest
Is that where PDs in the 2nd largest market are coming from...the INTERN dept. WoW [/quote]
Yup, sad but true. What everyone has failed to mention is that AC stations are doing well IN MOST OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. Check the Top 10 markets and you will see that more half currently have an AC station at #1 12+. Still MORE proof that Intern Stella really hasn't done anything to make KOST better, she is just riding a wave of good luck. Maybe CC should put an intern in charge of the gawd-awful STAR 98.7. It's not like they could make it sound much worse than it already does.
StopWhining said:
This "intern" thing is getting sickening. Stella began as an intern, but has done on air, been morning show producer and been APD over quite a few years... she is eminently qualified to lead KOST today.
AC's have always done well for the last 20 years or so. KOST has a unique challenge in that it is doing such a format in a market that is so overwhelmingly ethnic and immigrant and doing so well.
StopWhining said:
Yup, sad but true. What everyone has failed to mention is that AC stations are doing well IN MOST OF THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW. Check the Top 10 markets and you will see that more half currently have an AC station at #1 12+. Still MORE proof that Intern Stella really hasn't done anything to make KOST better, she is just riding a wave of good luck. Maybe CC should put an intern in charge of the gawd-awful STAR 98.7. It's not like they could make it sound much worse than it already does.
I will grant you that AC's are doing well in many markets, but really that's not the whole story. You're generalizing in order to make your point.
You still have to be good to succeed in this business, or at least better than your competition. Here again, I ask, how would you make KOST better? Your very good at putting successful people down, but lets try to be positive for just a moment. Give us an idea how you would improve this station? Did you get turned down for an internship by Ms. Schwartz? Why such hatred? Do you even know her? If she had worked in 10 different markets over the same period of time would that make her more worthy of her position in your eyes, or is there something deeper going on to bring out so much hatred? DE already made valid points so we already know that your wrong about this woman, but there has to be a reason why you feel this way. By the way, a station's success isn't just the PD's. KOST has a good solid staff. Most are veterans that came to Los Angeles way before the current conglomerate dominated culture and were there when KOST was beating even more direct competitors over the years like Magic 106, KHTZ 97, EZ 98.7, Lite FM (many of them) and KBIG. Are you saying that the airstaff, marketing and support crew are bad because many of them started out as interns? Remember, that's how most people start out in this business. You're actually insulting them as well. I'm not trying to get into a name calling war with you because it's not productive and we've done this dance before, but there really must be something else going on here as your hatred seems to be very strong for this woman. It can't just be jealousy can it?
S
StopWhining
Guest
<<I will grant you that AC's are doing well in many markets, but really that's not the whole story.>>
Umm yes, that pretty much is the whole story. Currently, 6 of the Top 10 markets have an AC station at #1. (NYC, LA, San Francisco, Houston, Philly and Detroit) The AC format is surging right now, and not because of anything intern Stella Schwartz is doing.
<<You still have to be good to succeed in this business, or at least better than your competition.>>
Considering her competition is owned by the same company she works for, this is hardly true a statement. If Stella is such a great programmer, why hasn't she been asked to save KBIG and/or Star? I think we all know the answer to the that, because she wouldn't have a clue where to start! Fortunately for Stella, she fell ass-backwards into a successful station that is on auto-pilot.
<<Here again, I ask, how would you make KOST better?>>
For starters, I would get rid of that horrible new TV commercial they are running. It is an animated nightmare. The cheap graphics were okay at Christmas, since those commercials matched the holiday theme, but those new commercials are an embarrassment. That shows the lack of creativity at KOST. I can just hear Stella in the meeting now: "I have a great idea, let's use the same commercial, minus the Santa hats! I'm a genius! Can one of the interns get me some coffee?"
<<Did you get turned down for an internship by Ms. Schwartz? Why such hatred? Do you even know her?>>
Puh-lease, like I'd ever work for a no-talent puppet like Ms. Stella Schwartz. I prefer an employer with vision and some talent to back it. And no, AGAIN, I do not know her personally. My comments are about her as a programmer, not as a person.
<<DE already made valid points so we already know that your wrong about this woman>>
Again, David Eduardo is not our savior. Just because he says something does not make it fact. I happen to disagree with him on this one, deal with it. And in answer to David's question, YES, I WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE RESPECT FOR STELLA IF SHE HAD MOVED TO A SMALLER MARKET AND WORKED HER WAY BACK TO LOS ANGELES. That was exactly my point!!! She is nothing more than a puppet who fetched coffee for Mark & Kim and answered request lines. I think interns are a great thing for radio, and I understand many people start out that way. No problem with that. I just don't like how CheapChannel is fast-tracking these puppets to the position of PD just to save a few bucks. What's more sickening are you corporate suck-ups who praise Stella Schwartz just because your boss told you too, or because you hope to land a gig with her.
<<your hatred seems to be very strong for this woman. It can't just be jealousy can it?>>
I have absolutely no hate for this woman. Again, I do not know her. I just don't respect her as a programmer, it's as simple as that. What would I be jealous of? Intern Stella hasn't done anything spectacular, she is merely in the right place at the right time. The bottom line is the music cycle is currently on AC, so she and KOST win. Good for her. But with that comes the realization that it will only take another huge boy band or Nirvana to put KIIS or KROQ back on top. AC stations are doing well right now because the other formats are slumping. With that said, I'll let you all get back to praising Stella Schwartz for a <ahem> job well-done. Good intern, remember---Christmas music all December!!
Umm yes, that pretty much is the whole story. Currently, 6 of the Top 10 markets have an AC station at #1. (NYC, LA, San Francisco, Houston, Philly and Detroit) The AC format is surging right now, and not because of anything intern Stella Schwartz is doing.
<<You still have to be good to succeed in this business, or at least better than your competition.>>
Considering her competition is owned by the same company she works for, this is hardly true a statement. If Stella is such a great programmer, why hasn't she been asked to save KBIG and/or Star? I think we all know the answer to the that, because she wouldn't have a clue where to start! Fortunately for Stella, she fell ass-backwards into a successful station that is on auto-pilot.
<<Here again, I ask, how would you make KOST better?>>
For starters, I would get rid of that horrible new TV commercial they are running. It is an animated nightmare. The cheap graphics were okay at Christmas, since those commercials matched the holiday theme, but those new commercials are an embarrassment. That shows the lack of creativity at KOST. I can just hear Stella in the meeting now: "I have a great idea, let's use the same commercial, minus the Santa hats! I'm a genius! Can one of the interns get me some coffee?"
<<Did you get turned down for an internship by Ms. Schwartz? Why such hatred? Do you even know her?>>
Puh-lease, like I'd ever work for a no-talent puppet like Ms. Stella Schwartz. I prefer an employer with vision and some talent to back it. And no, AGAIN, I do not know her personally. My comments are about her as a programmer, not as a person.
<<DE already made valid points so we already know that your wrong about this woman>>
Again, David Eduardo is not our savior. Just because he says something does not make it fact. I happen to disagree with him on this one, deal with it. And in answer to David's question, YES, I WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE RESPECT FOR STELLA IF SHE HAD MOVED TO A SMALLER MARKET AND WORKED HER WAY BACK TO LOS ANGELES. That was exactly my point!!! She is nothing more than a puppet who fetched coffee for Mark & Kim and answered request lines. I think interns are a great thing for radio, and I understand many people start out that way. No problem with that. I just don't like how CheapChannel is fast-tracking these puppets to the position of PD just to save a few bucks. What's more sickening are you corporate suck-ups who praise Stella Schwartz just because your boss told you too, or because you hope to land a gig with her.
<<your hatred seems to be very strong for this woman. It can't just be jealousy can it?>>
I have absolutely no hate for this woman. Again, I do not know her. I just don't respect her as a programmer, it's as simple as that. What would I be jealous of? Intern Stella hasn't done anything spectacular, she is merely in the right place at the right time. The bottom line is the music cycle is currently on AC, so she and KOST win. Good for her. But with that comes the realization that it will only take another huge boy band or Nirvana to put KIIS or KROQ back on top. AC stations are doing well right now because the other formats are slumping. With that said, I'll let you all get back to praising Stella Schwartz for a <ahem> job well-done. Good intern, remember---Christmas music all December!!
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