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Winter Book

D

djdan

No big surprises. KUBE wins the glory contest 12+, while KRWM slips from Christmas numbers but still retains solid ratings. In the prime demos for men, in no particular order, the winners are KISW, KMPS, KIRO, KZOK. For women: KRWM, KPLZ, KMPS, KCMS. For adults KISW, KZOK, KRWM, KMPS. Your winners 18-34 are KUBE and KISW.

Not much change with the usual suspects doing well in the prime demos in mornings. Stations that remain troubled are KBKS, KBSG, KNDD and some of the AM stations. Not too much spin to be had on the Winter book. Seattle as remained a stable market compared to other parts of the country.

For those that complain about JACK and Movin, both stations did fine. JACK was off a bit and MOVIN up a bit. Mornings remain the weak point on both stations. I doubt either will change format any time soon. MOVIN is now well ahead of KBKS in the 18-34 demographic and seems to alternate with JACK hitting the top ten 25-54 every other book. All in all no big surprises from the sales perspective.
 
Dan,

You mention that JACK cracks the top 10 25-54 one book, then will slip out, and then pop back in top 10. I think I asked this before when talking about KNDD but can't remember what you had said. How can a station be in good shape when there are 9 other more attractive buys in the demo they shoot after? I mean what would you say there are maybe 12-13 stations that target that demo in Seattle (including AM)? How can you be happy with your performance when let's say you are number 10 out of the 13 or so stations that actually target the demo you are trying to reach?

The same thing with KNDD. I've heard people say the station isn't going anywhere because they are constantly top 5 in their demo. Well I can only think of around 5-6 stations that target young listeners. So if you are #5 in your demo, the way I see it is that you are one of the least attractive buys out of all the stations that attract young listeners.

Am I analyzing this incorrectly? I just think if I was in charge of a cluster and one of my stations was near the bottom in their key demo, I'd be a little concerned.
 
For a station to be successful from a sales point of view they should be top ten 25-54 adults. Many national advertisers won't look at stations out of the top ten. The next step is to be top three to five in specific key advertiser demographics like 25-54 men, 25-54 women and 18-34 adults. 80% of the buys are placed in these four demographic areas 6a-7p Monday through Friday. 12+ is pretty meaningless as are nights and weekends.

For stations like JACK, MOVIN and KJR-FM they tend to slide in and out of the top 10 25-54, but rarely are top three in specific demographics. It makes them a tougher sell, because they aren't as well targeted from a sales perspective. However because all three do slide into the top ten, it does put them ahead of 15 other signals in the market, so I don't think format change is likely, just adjustments to try and win a demographic.

25-54 male or female buys tend to go three to five stations deep. 25-54 adult can sometimes go 5-10 stations deep. 18-34 rarely goes beyond two or three deep. That is why KBKS and KNDD are in such trouble because they are not top three 18-34 any longer and are 20th or worse 25-54. Too much sales talk for a programming board!
 
kbks is #4 P18-34 and had a solid month and is way up a from a year ago. kndd is #9 P18-34. neither one of them care about any "adult" ratings above the age of 34. i think one is in more trouble than the other.outside kube and kisw, no one cared in the younger demos. country radio in general was down, but the wolf is really struggling compared to a year ago. movin has hung on much long than any of us anticipated and kdds the regional mexican station went from 25th to 6th P18-34?? whats that about??
 
Mamma lets the ratings speak for her. MOVIN is top three 18-34 and top two women 18-34 and had its best rating 25-54 too. Ya ya! Mamma thinks if the best the station can do is 4th or 9th in the 18-34 numbers and 15th or 20th in the adult numbers might be time to turn off thetransmitters. Movin doubled kBKS in the last month of this book for March. No need to say anuything but look at the numbers and you will know that mammaknowsbest!! Props to Monti, Brooke and the yaya sisterhood of 92.5!! The boy girl team at KIss is over, the END has been over for some time. Look for KUBE and KPLZ to feel the wrath of MOVIN next. MOVIN even beat both country stations 25-54 in March cause country music is losin appeal to ouir gender. Too much dude country and talkin about trucks y'all. No need to read Mamma's posts just look at hte eveidence in the ratings. MOVIN is for real as a Seattle based format with Seattle based talent unlike other MOVIN knock offs around the country and it works. Ya ya good!!!!
 
djdan said:
For a station to be successful from a sales point of view they should be top ten 25-54 adults. Many national advertisers won't look at stations out of the top ten. The next step is to be top three to five in specific key advertiser demographics like 25-54 men, 25-54 women and 18-34 adults. 80% of the buys are placed in these four demographic areas 6a-7p Monday through Friday. 12+ is pretty meaningless as are nights and weekends.

For stations like JACK, MOVIN and KJR-FM they tend to slide in and out of the top 10 25-54, but rarely are top three in specific demographics. It makes them a tougher sell, because they aren't as well targeted from a sales perspective. However because all three do slide into the top ten, it does put them ahead of 15 other signals in the market, so I don't think format change is likely, just adjustments to try and win a demographic.

25-54 male or female buys tend to go three to five stations deep. 25-54 adult can sometimes go 5-10 stations deep. 18-34 rarely goes beyond two or three deep. That is why KBKS and KNDD are in such trouble because they are not top three 18-34 any longer and are 20th or worse 25-54. Too much sales talk for a programming board!
Click to expand...

Your posts Dan are always insightful. So from a sales standpoint what stations are Top 5 throughout in what you called the key demos - P 25-54 / W 25-54/ and M 25-54

If thats where the dollar$ go where do you golks from sales see as the strongest stations?
 
The strongest stations in Seattle from the sales perspective are KMPS, KZOK, KRWM, KISW, KUBE and KIRO. KPLZ, KOMO, KMTT are your next strongest. Billing numbers tell most of the story. KMPS, KZOK, KRWM and KISW are your top stations on a four book 25-54 adults and they are top two in females or males. KUBE is your strongest 18-34, with KISW far behind in second. KIRO is the top AM buy. The next level would be KOMO as the number two AM buy, KMTT in adults and KPLZ women. If you look at Seattle revenue figures for 2008 these stations are the top ten in the market. Morning numbers are very strong on KMPS, KISW, KZOK, KPLZ and KUBE on a four book in male and female prime demos which helps these stations too, plus they have market heritage.
 
hang on cowboys,.The only reason KMPS and the WOLF are off is the format is off this winter. For the last year country has lost its roots and focused on the American Idol Pop Country. Now that pop and adult 40 are playing all those songs too like KISS, STAR and KPLZ the format lost the younger demo :'(

That will change as focus is turning back to country only stars with the good ole country sound not the pop crap :p

Damn insightful stuff on ratings and selling, from what this cowboy is reading it is better to be number one two or three in something and 6th place across the board in a lot of demos. Kinda makes sense in a sales puke kinda way ;)

mamma don't get your panties in a bunch. Seems every other book MOVIn is up and then in the crapper. Fall is was crapper time, now you are in 6th place in a bunch of demos and this summer is crapper time :D
 
djdan: Daypart breakdowns in the prime demos? Wondering if Mr. Wonderful :D--that midday dude at KIRO--is still #1 in the Western Hemisphere.
Tnx
 
Actually, Dan, I really appreciate your insight on this so-called "programming" board. You help us understand the "whys" in the decision making process.

Just because I think Dori Monson comes off like a morally malleable sanctimonious twit doesn't change the fact that his bosses view him as a $$$ making asset. It's good for the rest of us to have some clue as to why some people are still on the air.

so- thanks!
 
Sales and ratings are only part of the story on why stations stay on the air. I find it likely that KBSG will change format soon based on four straight books of down numbers. I find it unlikely that KBKS or KNDD will change format. Each serves a value parameter in their clusters. For KBKS the station does well in younger demographics rounding out the combos in the rest of the cluster that lean 35+. The station can execute promotions, web initiatives and other money making projects that don't show up in the typical Miller/Kaplan numbers. Jackie and Bender are a safe place to go for pre-teens and their parents and for advertisers that do not want to associate with the T-Man or BJ Shea. Maybe another morning show could be safe and get better ratings but it is difficult to find high end talent. Shows like the aging Kent and Alan show survive with 25-54 year old women because of weak competition.
THE END also serves a purpose in their cluster by protecting KISW and KMTT. No one will try a young based rock or alternative while the END is around. If they end were any stronger it would only hurt KISW or KMTT. Give it up and you can bet a new young male station would be launched. Better to keep your enemies close, in my humble view.
KBSG is another matter. The Bonneville cluster is changing FM stations to talk, sports and news. A music station in a poor demo format makes little since for Bonneville in my humble view.
Bonneville does well with news based formats and AC. Expect a change soon. While sales is an important part of the success of stations as are big prime demo ratings they are not the whole story. KIRO and KOMO are rarely in the top ten 25-54 and if they are it is only in morning drive or sports broadcasts. They bill well because they have more inventory and a perception of value. 80% of the "agency" buys are 6a-7p in the 25-54 male, female and adult demographics but a great deal of radio business is not agency business. Don't be fooled by a sales poster with lots of numbers. His numbers are correct but his interpretation is flawed in my humble view.
 
It's quite sad that Oldies now 'Classic Hits' which is stupid to call it..can't survive in the Puget Sound. KBSG sounded better before they switched to B 97.3 vs now. Seems to me like they're looking to kill it intentionally to flip it. That'll be a sad day in Puget Sound Radio.
 
DXMeister said:
It's quite sad that Oldies now 'Classic Hits' which is stupid to call it..can't survive in the Puget Sound. KBSG sounded better before they switched to B 97.3 vs now. Seems to me like they're looking to kill it intentionally to flip it. That'll be a sad day in Puget Sound Radio.
Click to expand...

I do agree it will be sad if and when this market no longer has an outlet for this music on the radio! However I must disagree with the idea that it's "stupid" to call it classic hits.

The name Oldies has a stigma to it. No one like to be called "Old". Ask any woman, tell her she looks old and well...you can only guess what happens then. As Americans today and our youth driven culture no one wants anything that is "Old". The word Old itself conjures up ideas and images of wrinkled, grey haired, retired, no energy, near death people in an institutional style group home.

Look at the ads on tv...Even Ameritrade with Dennis Hopper hocking the "retirement funds for the generation that would never grow up" They are showing folks in their 50's and 60's out surfing, or mountain biking, or parachuting, showing a youthful zest and are marketing a certain "hipness" factor to the late boomers who don't want to be..whats the word.........."OLD"

So losing the "Oldies" title is good but losing the music and the audience is BAD BAD BAD!
 
I don't think calling KBSG's format "Oldies" has anything to do with their decline. Over the years KBSG has played the same songs over and over and over and over and over.........well, you know what I mean. They refused to inject a few "lesser" hits in occasionally to "freshen" up the format. Even I, who grew up on rock from 1957 on got burnt out on their music. I listen to KBSG now only in my car,and that is not a lot of time, mixed in with CD's of the oldies from the 50's and early 60's that they don't play.
 
I am sorry you took away the wrong impression...not implying that "oldies" was why the ratings declined. Just for clarification..."Oldies" leaves one with a sour taste in their mouth.....anything "old" is not considered cool. Retro can be cool but again look it's "Retro" or "vintage" these words have a "hipness" or "cool" factor that redeem it..where as again "Oldies" sounds like something that happens to ones milk when left in the fridge too long and it turns "Oldies" and gets sour....

The reason for the ratings decline is an issue that is more along the lines of programming....agree?
 
25-54 Mornings. KZOK keeps kicking butt. KISW had a great winter book mornings. They are #2 KMPS and KCMS tied for third. Morning folks not doing very well include KMTT tied for 12th place with KQMV.KJR-FM in 16th place.
 
..."Oldies" leaves one with a sour taste in their mouth.....anything "old" is not considered cool.

It doesn't bother me one bit to be considered an "oldie" There are a heck of a lot of people around who are old that are considered "cool". I still like the term "oldies" and I enjoy 50's and 60's rock. I do think KBSG is now a lost cause and it is because of programming decisions.
 
It's pretty sad how radio has become here in Seattle. KBSG ratings would be worse if they switched to a news talk format and I think Bonneville knows that. I have noticed they have made some adjustments in their format lately. I am hearing a more pop-based format instead of classic rock like KJR-FM is doing which is starting to fail for them too. KBSG is so much better than KJR .I still feel to this day if KJR went oldies they would do very well based on their heritage from the old KJR-AM. KJR-FM is declining which I predicted would happen due to the fact they play the same songs over and over again.Who wants to hear Queen, Steve Miller Band and Supertramp over and over again. I think KBSG is doing much better even though time will tell what happens.
 
KentMcN said:
KBSG ratings would be worse if they switched to a news talk format and I think Bonneville knows that.
Click to expand...

How do you know that? Bonneville has had success with FM news in DC and there have to be younger people who would listen on FM but don't even realize an AM band exists.
 
So it's better to keep a floating turd like thee End on the air just to deflect any intruders aimed at kisw & kmtt than try to put back together some sort of competitor in the market?

Nuthin' like being #1, 1.9! :p
 
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