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Winter I trends - GSP

Earth needs to decide on either oldies or classic hits. They dig too far back in to the 60s too often to go that far in to the 80s. I don't want to start another debate on what the format should cover (that's already on another thread), but I wish they'd get off the fence.

Don't forget oldies on 106.3, which got around what MY is getting now (and we see what became of them with ratings in that area). Find me one all-80s station that was successful for an extended amount of time. It's interesting at first, but the novelty wears off fast. I don't think anything could make it work on terrestrial radio, sorry. I agree with MarkSC on all points, but actually the Cox translators have better coverage in some parts of Greenville county (and Pickens) than 103.3.

Just to comment on awp69's post, moving either 97.7/98.5 to 98.1 wouldn't help in Spartanburg county. Their signal is bad there, probably no better than the translators. Anderson, yes, 98.1 would be an improvement but that's about it.
 
Ha Scooter I'm no expert or anything, I just try to work on common sense and some "feeling" for the area as I've lived here all my life. My whole argument with the late 70s, disco, and early 80's being mixed in on Earth is that it gives what I call the "switch the channel" effect and I'm not even talking about the fact that when a 60's song goes up against a late 70's, disco, or 80's song that I'll change the channel, I will. What I mean, too, is that it feels like someone switched the channel on you while you were listening. You go from enjoying your 1969 5th Dimension singing about riding in their beautiful balloon and you're all happy and psyched out on the 60's, in a good way, then you hear "Whats love go to do with it" by Tina Turner come on. It feels like someone reached down and switched the channel in which your natural reaction is to want to bitch slap whoever done it! :) It's an abrupt change and I'm telling these guys, that affects people, its on a deeper level than most think. So what you get as you are thrown back and forth through decades from the 60s to the 80s is "ship on the high seas" effect too because you're sick from being tossed back and forth. Its just too much of a shock for me, that much I know and when stations do that I flip the dial looking for another station that is more authentic and true to a musical era such as the WNMB's of the world. I very much avoid stations that do not mix music well because I can't deal with being all over the road. Now does that mean I don't like 80's music? No not at all, it just has to be played in the right place. If I'm in the 80's mood I definitely don't want to, in a likewise fashion, hear a 60's song come on. There are way more people, especially in this area, like me than some of these guys want to believe. They just don't want to hear that. Eh but naw I'm no expert, haha, just trying to add some constructive criticism because I want to see Earth be successful. The things they have done right are having real quality talent and being almost a full service station with the right amount of news, traffic, weather, etc. As long as they don't start over the air flea markets as some full service's have done in the past, thats ewww! I once heard someone reading on a station as if the were reading the classified sales ad's out of the Greenville News. "One slightly used batman costume in good shape, call ....." LOL!!!! THAT was just weird. Interestingly enough Scooter, I do have a 2 year degree in Radio and TV Broadcasting but never worked in the field. I stayed in my first field of education but always wished Radio could have worked out but I think these days the pay might be less than Education and that is really sad. Just a radio and music lover here and a collector of CD's, Tapes, and Records and know my music. Thanks for your kind comments and considering me a member of the "Think Tank", I'm honored. Thanks guys.
 
Well,...again let me pull a few of you Nattering Nayboobs of Negativity outta the Fog of Egotistical Over-confidence: It was more than Clear that Star 103 was working in this market. It only...ONLY...only failed after some intrusive pencilneck Consultant shortened their playlist, and then poisoned it by adding 90's songs. They changed horses in the middle of the stream! When I heard this: "Star 103, the 80's & More", I knew that it was D.R.T....
Dead, Right, There!!!
 
Agreed Scooter. That's pretty much what I wanted to say about Star but didn't elaborate. I was excited about Star when it came out but when they changed it I knew it would go downhill. I still think Earth needs to tighten the playlist some and dump the 80's and disco. Today I heard several disco era tunes and for me disco was just too faddish for my taste. It just reminds me of ugly leisure suits, polyester, mirrored balls, and dance floors with the lighted squares. Even as a kid I remember when disco died and that whole 80's new wave came in. You know, the Bee Gee's are always associated with the disco era for obvious reasons but I actually like their earlier 60's and very early 70's stuff much better. They also had some decent stuff in the 80's, albeit not in heavy rotation. That 80's stuff has aged decently over the years and is nowhere near as grating on the ears as their disco stuff. Song's like "You win again" and "Heartbreaker" which Dionne Warwick also did. Point though, people forget their 60's music and 80's music and only remember the disco era with the big hair and bellbottoms. But you're right, Star could have worked if they had stayed on the original road and not took a detour. It could have been something very cool.
 
That makes for a nice story, to blame it on a consultant. Do you really think they changed it when it was kickin' butt? Really? Star did what every 80's station did. Spiked for about two books and went on a quick decline. Then they changed it to try to save it, but we know how that worked out.
 
So, I answer & thwart MarkSC,...still yet AGAIN: Yes, I blame it on the Consultant! Who else could you blame? The PD was nothing more than a Selector Monkey/Monkey-ette. So, you can't blame her. Neither of the only two...Air Staff could pour dookie out of a boot, if the instructions were written on the heel. Who else is left? The Playlist didn't shorten itself. The Pencilneck Consultant probably made all the changes, and shortenings from behind a desk in Boston. From the launch, they were fine, and on track. It only failed,...when some Pencilneck needed to justify his paycheck; by making unnessessary changes. ...and after he ran it into the ground,...they changed the format, and the Consultant still kept his job.
THAT'S HOW THAT WORKED OUT!
 
So do you think the same thing about all of the other markets it failed in (which were every market it was tried in)? Why did all-70s and all-90s fail as well?

I just don't think you can have a radio station be successful long-term just playing 10 years of music. The novelty wears off. Most all-80s stations that didn't go away eventually either added 70s to the mix or went in a Hot AC direction.
 
I've always been of the mind that 60's and 70's (pre disco, disco doesnt mix well with anything in my mind) mixes well. 80's and 90's can coexist if mixed correctly and sound decent. Remember a lot of early 90's still had an 80's sound to it, take the lighter pop, etc. Second half of the 90's can mix with early and mid 2000's. I think that is how the decades should span. 60's through 80's is too much. Bottom line, two decades is about the max you can do and make it halfway mix well. Thats my opinion for what it's worth, not that it's worth much! :)
 
Carolinaradio,...I know that it's the weekend, but put down the diet peach wine cooler, and stop typing long enough to refer to:
Reply #11 on 2/27.
 
Interesting conversation regarding the all-one-decade stations. The '80s was a fun time for pop music and I wouldn't even mind flipping to an all '80s station once in a while, but it's still something I think anyone would get burnt out on eventually. And I agree with carolinaradio in that that's one thing I really dislike about satellite radio. Some people may like how they segregate the decades like the aforementioned 80s on 8....and 90s on 9, 70s on 7, etc. But I'm the type of person who likes a mix. Not a WIDE mix like 60s to 90s. But I don't like when I'm in my wife's car (which has satellite) and she's constantly flipping every couple songs to a different decade.
 
See that is my exact point about Earth mixing 60s-1989, it feels like someone is constantly flipping the station and it drives me nuts.
 
clemsonbloke said:
See that is my exact point about Earth mixing 60s-1989, it feels like someone is constantly flipping the station and it drives me nuts.
Click to expand...

Well, my point was that I prefer a mix. But I most definately agree that there are decades that don't belong together. To me, 60s and 70s are a good fit. But stretching to the 80s is rough. Going from something like "The Sound of Silence" to "Video Killed The Radio Star" would sound awful.

It usually seems like two decades or so fits (80s/90s, 90s/2000s, etc.). I even think some more upbeat 80s sounds ok with '90s and '00s. But the '60s sound so dramatically different from the '80s that I don't think it works.
 
I have nothing wrong with the mix of 70s and 80s with a sprinkling of 60s, as I've said before. However, it has to be the RIGHT mix. You don't play "Chapel Of Love" or "Downtown" and go in to "Eye Of The Tiger." No way. You can't play a lot of 60s and a lot of 80s. You don't want to jump all over the place, and you want a good transition and for it to all be cohesive/SOUND good. That's where Earth is going wrong IMO. They are playing too big of a 60s variety to be playing that much 80s and vice-versa. The reason all of these classic hits stations I've mentioned sound so good (like SunnyFM in Orlando, check out their playlist) is because they are clearly focused. 70s is the core, 80s is second with a decent amount of the spotlight, and an occasional smash-hit from the 60s is thrown in there (Beatles, Stones, Elvis, Roy Orbison, Four Tops, etc).

I agree that 2 decades is the most that should be prominently mixed on a gold based station, but wide decade mixing works on all kinds of other formats (WESC plays 70s country alongside new country, Chuck plays 70s/80s/90s, Magic plays 70s Eric Clapton with Lady Gaga, etc and all are doing well). Keep in mind, again, most classic hits stations like the aforementioned SunnyFM is targeted at mainly a 35-54 audience as that is what they sell to advertisers. The music is tested and what that demographic likes is played, so they obviously like the variety. I don't know if this is Earth's case (I doubt they've done music testing). 60s/70s oldies is getting more in to a 55+ demographic which does not exist to advertisers.

A great example of an awesome locally-run classic hits station in SC is 104.9 The Surf in HHI. I hope Earth can be as successful as they've been. Regardless of what era of music they play, I wish them well and will be tuning in. Perhaps it's good they're doing their own thing and aren't having to follow top-down dictations. Heck, people bow down to WKRI and they play 50s-80s. I actually think the decade-mixing discussion would be a great idea for a topic on the classic hits board - I've never really heard it brought up until now, and I know I would be interested in reading what others who may know more about the format have to say about it.
 
carolinaradio said:
I agree that 2 decades is the most that should be prominently mixed on a gold based station, but wide decade mixing works on all kinds of other formats (WESC plays 70s country alongside new country, Chuck plays 70s/80s/90s, Magic plays 70s Eric Clapton with Lady Gaga, etc and all are doing well).  Keep in mind, again, most classic hits stations like the aforementioned SunnyFM is targeted at mainly a 35-54 audience as that is what they sell to advertisers.  The music is tested and what that demographic likes is played, so they obviously like the variety.  I don't know if this is Earth's case (I doubt they've done music testing).  60s/70s oldies is getting more in to a 55+ demographic which does not exist to advertisers. 
Click to expand...

I think the reason why country, variety hits and even an AC like Magic can get away with it is that they usually still have a focus in one area. Like Chuck I would say is predominately '80s with some '70s and '90s mixed in (and even occassionally '00s). And Magic/WESC are still largely focused on newer music, but they can at least program to make the transition to older songs somewhat seemlessly and they do so more sparingly.

But, yeah, when you start throwing in large amounts of '60s with large amounts of '80s and it's going to be difficult to get a groove going and sound cohesive. It's hard to pin down, but even the music selection from those decades can make a huge difference. There's some '70s songs that still sound ok against '80s. But probably fewer '60s songs just because of the nature of the "sound" of that decade.

To me '60s is oldies now. I doubt there's many people (as carolinaradio says mainly 55+) that like the '60s but feel the same way about the '80s.
 
Carolinaradio, The Surf 104.9 is a great station, however they have a large leaning to the shag/beach music circuit, and just like any other type of music , you ask and get many definitions, beach to some is old soul and motown , etc, beach/shag to others is hard core blues shag music, then there is the Drifters/Tams/Embers etc,, its all good
 
I'm 39 and 80's is not oldies to me, it may be to an 18 year old who never lived during that decade but it's not oldies to me. When someone insists that 80's are oldies it's insulting to people like me, I'd even say to someone who was 35. To my ears though, when you go from a 60's, 70's song even to the 80's it is like someone reached down and flipped my station. Usually when enough of that goes on I just go ahead and flip the station because I can't stand being jerked all over the place. I'm telling you people, you don't believe me on this but more people do that than you realize. You're walking a very thin line with listeners trying to mash this music all up. Boomers and Gen X'ers are going to go "nope, nadda, flip!, that ain't an oldies station!". That said, I still love the 80's on the right station. 80's, to most of us, is yesterday, not nostalgia.
 
That's pretty much why people have quit using the term "oldies" (remember when every station used it?). "Greatest Hits" or "Classic Hits" is the "politically correct" term and has been for a while, and if you notice, most stations have quit trying to sound like they're in the 60s or 70s (I remember a lot of oldies stations back in the day used old Drake-Chenault sounding effects/jingles, PAMS jingles (which I still love), etc. Most have opted for a more contemporary sound now. As more late baby boomers started aging in to the format, they realized the "o word" was somewhat toxic and reminded them of their parents' music and switched to the more upbeat/greatest hits presentation.

I still consider 50s and 60s music to be TRUE oldies. I'm not a fan of calling anything from the 70s-on oldies, but that's JMO. I even hear 90s music called oldies occasionally. IMO 50s/60s/early 70s = Oldies, 70s/80s = Classic Hits. In response to awp69 - very good points about the other formats, and if you notice the 60s songs that have held up and have the biggest popularity today were smash hits and might be popular with listeners who grew up in the 70s and 80s.... due to the fact that they remained getting decent airplay during their childhood, and they are also just fun, upbeat, mass-appeal, timeless songs.

I think Chuck FM does a very good job mixing the 70s-90s music. If you like 80s music, they have a fantastic variety. They definitely have the 80s crown these days.
 
Yep and that is the very mistake they are making now, not using those correct jingles, news sounders, etc to go along with the format they were designed for. They may need to get away from saying oldies although in this area that is what they're known as. However they still need to stick with the correct jingles, etc because again you cannot mix old and new, thats been my gripe ever since this mixing 80's in with 60s and 70s crap started. Most stations do what the "suits" and "researchers" tell them to do which is a dead end. Even stations that want to claim that they're not listening to that kinda stuff still do and follow suit and do the same damn thing, it makes no sense at all. You have to keep it the way it was meant to be. On Earth it just went from a 1980 John Lennon song "it's like starting over" a later to 80's "Lets hear it for the boy", I'm sorry but even that doesn't sound right. I just thought "yuck, that doesn't mix well". According to Earth they are going from 1964-1989, thats a big swath. Anyway I about give up anymore ever getting a station that I like, I don't think it's possible anymore. Nobody cares what I, or others like me think. More and more I'm tuning radio out and falling back on my LP's, CD's, and tapes. I'm just tired of all the damn "experiments". I'm convinced some disease got into Greenville radio back around the early 90's and it's just never recovered and I doubt it ever will. To be quite honest, these days for radio, I've switched to iTunes and listen to the free "decade" themed stations. No commercials, no crap, and high bit rates. It works for me for radio. I suppose if I actually worked at one of these stations and done my own show and played what I thought was correct they'd push me out the door and I'm 39! So many stations ask for input but none have ever listened to me so I'm pretty burnt on upstate radio, I wish it were different.
 
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