WINZ

[livingfruitvirus]

Anyone else wondering if WINZ will keep up the liberal talk much longer? Every week it seems I hear Clear Channel is flipping one of its liberal AM talkers to a format like sports. This week it's WAVZ. Only thing here is WINZ was flipped FROM sports, and WAXY and WQAM seem to have that local market covered.

 

[Faraway]

It's doubtful it will flip anytime soon. For the most part, the flips are happening at smaller stations, where operators just set it and forget. They put little into the property, they shouldn't expect to get more outof it. Bet those stations that are flipping now, will be flipping again in a year or two. Instead, WINZ is following the models of the bigger market CC AM's carrying the format, like KLSD, KPOJ, and KKZN and they are all doing fine. They have local morning shows, they mix and match programming that works for the market (as opposed to just taking the AAR feed 24/7). I know we're not supposed to get into deep numbers on this board, but I know the station is doing tons better than when it was a sports station, and understand that in some key male demos, WINZ is competitive with WQAM and WIOD. I don't think there's a question that when and where it has tried, Clear Channel puts on a good "liberal" station. The jury is still out, however, on whether or not the format can be sold.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

WINZ has struggled for as long as I can remember. There have been a few bright spots but for the most part it's been an uphill battle for the last 35 years! Problems are:

It's AM in a very FM dominated market
It's signal goes into the ocean at night
It's English language in a largely hispanic market

 

[jbrasco951]

Clear Channel will probably make it a brokered station like they have it set in Tampa with WHNZ, and West Palm with WBZT, with Medical, business and lifestyle programs. There's no ratings in it but it is a cash cow. Also, there's a need for that type of station since WAXY flipped.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I know what you mean but as a listener I don't find the need for or the value in a brokered station. It doesn't serve the public and turns the station into one big commercial that translates usually into inferior programming.

The origional intent was for radio stations to be granted a license to serve the public, now it's a license to make money with zero obligation to do anything else.

 

[artradioguy]

I have to agree with Mike. The broadcast de-regulation act took the local owner out of the picture and as a result the mega companies take the easy way out. Today it's all the national buy. Break up the monopolies, make radio local again, that's the only way to compete with the earbuds. 12-24's don't listen to radio as much these days, why, because it doesn't relate to them. Local radio can get in touch with local audiences again, just ask the Cuban broadcasters in Miami.

 

[livingfruitvirus]

I have to agree with Mike. The broadcast de-regulation act took the local owner out of the picture and as a result the mega companies take the easy way out. Today it's all the national buy. Break up the monopolies, make radio local again, that's the only way to compete with the earbuds. 12-24's don't listen to radio as much these days, why, because it doesn't relate to them. Local radio can get in touch with local audiences again, just ask the Cuban broadcasters in Miami.

What's strange about this statement is we are literally one of the last few countries that has any semblance of localized radio left. 99% of the world's radio stations have been consolidated to the point where the biggest and most listened to stations are the country's national radio networks. Take W Radio in Mexico. It's one network broadcast on over 20 stations throughout Mexico. European radio is a much better example, where it's harder to start up a local radio station because most people will listen to the nationwide ones.

 

[davideduardo]

You picked, unfortunately, a very bad example. W Radio gets less than a half-share in Mexico City, and less elsewhere.

However, what the real difference is has to do with centralization. Most nations, especially in Latin America, have literally no local infrastructure. There are no city police, the school system is national, the roads and such are handled by the national, centralized government. Cities generally do not have suburbs... the main town just expands as population increases the geography covered.

So, if you are in Ecuador, the interests in Cuenca are identical to the ones in Quito or Guayaquil.

THis also applies to Europe, but with a big difference. Most of Europe did not have commercial radio, or only limited commercial radio, just as recently as the 1960's and 1970's. All radio was national, run by the government... with scant local material.

The US goes back to the the 30's with an FCC and government mandated focus on localism, which hightened in the 40's. That is why we never had true national stations, and strict ownership limits applied. In contrast, Cadena SER in Spain has 180 or so transmitters all over the nation.... and has for decades.

So entrenched is national radio in parts of Europe that when Metromedia put a news staiton on FM in Berlin, they did not even realize that there are no local ad budgets in radio! They sold at a huge loss, too.

 

[davideduardo]

I have to agree with Mike. The broadcast de-regulation act took the local owner out of the picture and as a result the mega companies take the easy way out. Today it's all the national buy. Break up the monopolies, make radio local again, that's the only way to compete with the earbuds. 12-24's don't listen to radio as much these days, why, because it doesn't relate to them. Local radio can get in touch with local audiences again, just ask the Cuban broadcasters in Miami.

What's strange about this statement is we are literally one of the last few countries that has any semblance of localized radio left. 99% of the world's radio stations have been consolidated to the point where the biggest and most listened to stations are the country's national radio networks. Take W Radio in Mexico. It's one network broadcast on over 20 stations throughout Mexico. European radio is a much better example, where it's harder to start up a local radio station because most people will listen to the nationwide ones.

 

[ajhenderson]

I know what you mean but as a listener I don't find the need for or the value in a brokered station. It doesn't serve the public and turns the station into one big commercial that translates usually into inferior programming.

The origional intent was for radio stations to be granted a license to serve the public, now it's a license to make money with zero obligation to do anything else.

I may agree that local ownership is a good thing, but this standard line about how horrible brokered programming gets is old. It would make sense to me, in a market like Miami-Ft L with WIOD getting mediocre numbers as the #1 talker, to keep the best remnants of liberal talk and program brokered around it.

Think about it, though... would DR companies buy time on stations in every market if no one bought their crap? Apparently there are plenty of people happy to listen to such programming. While I would prefer to keep brokered stuff off the best stations, you have to admit that there are people listening. This is a typical "radio person" issue... it's not about the listener, as you claim, it's about this image of radio as some form of holy grail, and keeping your job. This is nothing against you personally, but the line you tout is so typical. It's kind of like saying that when CC has one person read traffic for three cities, it's "anti-listener". In reality, the listener doesn't know or care; it comes down to the fact that the people who used to read traffic in the other two markets are miffed over losing a job. Such is technology and the advancement of business.

BTW, if the FCC wants broadcasters to do more to serve the public, they should enact regulations to such an extent. Do you blame licensees for wanting to make the most out of THEIR investment? If a station runs PSAs/community programming, runs a legal ID, and puts a contour over its COL, it's serving the public. The public does own the airwaves, and this is what their government has sold their rights for.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

I stand by what I said. Brokered programming serves no one.

Taking the same arguement to another level. A woman can sell her body and make some good money. That doesn't mean that she should.

You might ask yourself why this topic keeps coming up. Programming people (jocks, news people, etc) tend to be idealistic. They got into radio to serve the public with information and entertainment. In most cases these jobs don't pay well, we do it because we love what we're doing. Then you have the sales and marketing people who are strictly motivated by how much money can they make. In truth broadcasting needs both but the idealistic folks are getting their butts kicked and probably always will.

Do me a favor though and read what the first broadcasters had in mind for the medium known as radio. To educate, inform, and entertain. Notice it doesn't say to pander or sell.

Commercials and sales are important. However the problem come in when people think that's the only reason for radio's existance. The early station owners took public service more seriously than many stations do today. Please do your homework, then come back and flame me if you want. If you want a cash register then go buy a store, not a radio station.

 

[sheldon94]

Let's talk about traffic reporting for WINZ. I reported traffic on 940 WINZ from 1990-1997 then again from 2004-2006 along with WIOD and several other Clear Channel stations. I thought my job would last this time! It did not. The idiot news director of WIOD wanted an all female airstaff for WIOD! So since ALL traffic reports are recorded that ONE FEMALE get's to do traffic for not just WIOD but WLVE and WINZ in the afternoons. It's the same report for all three stations updated 4 times an hour in NEXT GEN again stupid! TRAFFIC should be live. All the men were reduced to producing positions which most have quit. CC screwed me and just at the 10 year mark when Metro Networks screwed me in 1997. That's twice in ten years! I moved back here for CC thinking this was it I was going to make a difference and I did NOT! I have wasted time and money living in South Florida so I am leaving the area yet AGAIN and this time for good.LISTEN UP RADIO PEOPLE NO-MORE JOB OFFERS I AM RETIRED! AND SICK OF THE ATTITUDE OF MY HOMETOWN so I am Going back to Western North Carolina where life is a little less stressful and a wonderful teaching career that was on hold. Meanwhile the ratings for WINZ and WIOD will continue to fail unless South Florida gets another powerful hurricane or some other natural disaster then WIOD will see a 4 share but that's only for ONE BOOK. Otherwise they will continue in the mid 2's. Traffic Reporting use to be a stable career well not any more! it's all data entry now and how boring is that! I was a broadcast professional not a damned data clerk! Let me quote a line from the movie MR. Hollands Opus "you work your whole life in one career thinking that you have made a difference then you wake up one morning and have discovered opps I was wrong I am expendable" I am 40 years old and need stability and need to grow up and get out of this miserable career and big city. Good Luck WINZ, WIOD your going to need it. The all FEMALE thing will not work! you will see that's I'm right and your wrong. I'll be listening and laughing at you from 1000 miles away. Oh by the way CC thanks for the depression, anxiety and the wonderful health insurance.

 

[ajhenderson]

I stand by what I said. Brokered programming serves no one.

Taking the same arguement to another level. A woman can sell her body and make some good money. That doesn't mean that she should.

You might ask yourself why this topic keeps coming up. Programming people (jocks, news people, etc) tend to be idealistic. They got into radio to serve the public with information and entertainment. In most cases these jobs don't pay well, we do it because we love what we're doing. Then you have the sales and marketing people who are strictly motivated by how much money can they make. In truth broadcasting needs both but the idealistic folks are getting their butts kicked and probably always will.

Do me a favor though and read what the first broadcasters had in mind for the medium known as radio. To educate, inform, and entertain. Notice it doesn't say to pander or sell.

Commercials and sales are important. However the problem come in when people think that's the only reason for radio's existance. The early station owners took public service more seriously than many stations do today. Please do your homework, then come back and flame me if you want. If you want a cash register then go buy a store, not a radio station.

Well, you make a decent point or two,but it confusing where you believe the sales should stop. Where is the line drawn? I'll agree with you - when WABC brokers time, it's a bit silly. My point is primarily focused on stations that came along well after many others in the market and have floundered for years. These stations are generally failues, yet their owners have just as much a right to make money as anyone else. Again, I understand the idealism, but it's just that. Furthermore, as I said, it's up to the community to hold the FCC responsible for the way it manages their ownership of their airwaves. Why should a conglomerate care about spending a lot of money for "community service" when the FCC doesn't even mandate that they do so?

THere are many brokered programs, from health infomerials, to mortgage brokers, to investment gurus, getting results nationally. Again, please tell the people that do business with them that brokered radio doesn't service their interest as a member of the "public".

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Sales should stop when it becomes the only reason for the radio station's existance.

Radio stations often did more than just the bare minimum required by the FCC. Today the FCC is so underfunded it's little more than a joke really. It survives by selling spectrum and fining stations. In the really important matters the FCC is no match for big business. So just what do you think the community can do?

A conglomerate should spend money for "Community Service" for the same reason a shop owner sponsors the local little league team. It's good for business and it shows their concern for the community they are a part of.

My problem with infomercials and brokered programming is they can masquerade as an actual prorgram rather than a long commercial which sells rather than informs. You are not assured of getting the downside to the product being pushed when the goal is to sell people on whatever it is.

While I'm on my soapbox I'd like to see a return to the equal time rule. It used to be talk shows presented both sides of an issue not just the side the host agreed with.

 

[ajhenderson]

Sales should stop when it becomes the only reason for the radio station's existance.

How is this defined? Sales ARE the only reason for a station's existance. Just because, to use your word, most stations masquerade their commercials as messages from friends supporting your favorite programming, doesn't mean that if no one sold anything there would still be a station. There wouldn't be. Radio, like it or not, is a content delivery service. It serves to program content people want to hear in order to attract enough of them to sell commercials to advertisers. The reason for the content is (generally) not because the licensee wants to air country or talk or sports. It's because if he/she ran nothing but commercials, no one would listen. That's basically what a brokered station is, and it's up to the licensee/sales staff at those stations to get past that hurdle, or have SOME programming that builds an audience.

I too am a big fan of radio and love the medium and have so much trivial knowledge from my persistent interest in the business. However, it does come down to the money for all but a tiny handful of operators who have money to throw around for their entertainment.

A conglomerate should spend money for "Community Service" for the same reason a shop owner sponsors the local little league team. It's good for business and it shows their concern for the community they are a part of.

Well, again, this is well meaning, but who defines this? Do shop owners on 5th Avenue in NYC support the local Little League team? You're speaking of a small town and suburban phenomenon that exists as a cost of doing business in such environments. I understand some peoples' desire to do this, but many don't.

My problem with infomercials and brokered programming is they can masquerade as an actual prorgram rather than a long commercial which sells rather than informs. You are not assured of getting the downside to the product being pushed when the goal is to sell people on whatever it is.

The FTC defines this. The basic rule is that any infomercial beyond 15 minutes in length (on radio) has to state its nature as a paid program. This can differ in different circumstances but is a good guideline to follow. TV shows have display this disclaimer visually. I'm not aware of any commercial that points out the negative points about its product/service. While the programming on a "traditional" radio station might be deemed more desirable, don't confuse the motives of the sales department or the lengths to which they'll go to make money on these stations. Do you think every host reading a spot has used the product/service in question? Does the sales department of WIOD cares more than that of WSBR about the claims made in commercials? The value of the products? No.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

Sales should stop when it becomes the only reason for the radio station's existance.

How is this defined? Sales ARE the only reason for a station's existance. Just because, to use your word, most stations masquerade their commercials as messages from friends supporting your favorite programming, doesn't mean that if no one sold anything there would still be a station. There wouldn't be. Radio, like it or not, is a content delivery service. It serves to program content people want to hear in order to attract enough of them to sell commercials to advertisers. The reason for the content is (generally) not because the licensee wants to air country or talk or sports. It's because if he/she ran nothing but commercials, no one would listen. That's basically what a brokered station is, and it's up to the licensee/sales staff at those stations to get past that hurdle, or have SOME programming that builds an audience.

You have me at a loss here. I haven't heard a brokered station invest in programming.

I too am a big fan of radio and love the medium and have so much trivial knowledge from my persistent interest in the business. However, it does come down to the money for all but a tiny handful of operators who have money to throw around for their entertainment.

A conglomerate should spend money for "Community Service" for the same reason a shop owner sponsors the local little league team. It's good for business and it shows their concern for the community they are a part of.

Well, again, this is well meaning, but who defines this? Do shop owners on 5th Avenue in NYC support the local Little League team? You're speaking of a small town and suburban phenomenon that exists as a cost of doing business in such environments. I understand some peoples' desire to do this, but many don't.

It can be done in other ways even in NYC. To quote Bruce Morrow NYC is nothing but a big little town. People reacted to WABC's Principal of The Year and ate it up just like they would have in a small town

My problem with infomercials and brokered programming is they can masquerade as an actual prorgram rather than a long commercial which sells rather than informs. You are not assured of getting the downside to the product being pushed when the goal is to sell people on whatever it is.

The FTC defines this. The basic rule is that any infomercial beyond 15 minutes in length (on radio) has to state its nature as a paid program. This can differ in different circumstances but is a good guideline to follow. TV shows have display this disclaimer visually. I'm not aware of any commercial that points out the negative points about its product/service. While the programming on a "traditional" radio station might be deemed more desirable, don't confuse the motives of the sales department or the lengths to which they'll go to make money on these stations. Do you think every host reading a spot has used the product/service in question? Does the sales department of WIOD cares more than that of WSBR about the claims made in commercials? The value of the products? No.

True, but since people are continually tuning in and out some could miss the disclaimer, but point taken

 

[ajhenderson]

You have me at a loss here. I haven't heard a brokered station invest in programming.

WWRL/NYC (formerly): AMD and PMD shows, Larry Elder, Alan Colmes
KLAA/LA: Glenn Beck
KYCY/SF (formerly): Imus, Tom Leykis
WMET/DC: Greaseman
KFNX/Phoenix: Charles Goyette, Dr. Laura, Bill O'Reilly, Jerry Doyle
KMYL/Phoenix (formerly): Dave Ramsey, Larry King
WHNZ/Tampa: WSJ This Morning, Joy Browne, Dean Edell, Clark Howard, Lionel, Joey Reynolds
WTAN/Tampa: Imus
KCAA/Riverside-San Bernardino: Imus
WBZT/West Palm: Joy Browne, Hannity

And in cases of religious and foreign language brokered programming (WHSR, KXMX, etc), the brokered programming IS the attraction.

 

[davideduardo]

KLAA/LA: Glenn Beck

KLAA is not brokered. It is owned by the owner of the Angels, and controls its own programming.

Brokering means you sell time to someoen else, and that person sells all ad time in the brokered time. Barter is not the same as brokering... Glenn Beck is barter-based syndicated show, not a brokered show.

 

[ajhenderson]

KLAA/LA: Glenn Beck

KLAA is not brokered. It is owned by the owner of the Angels, and controls its own programming.

Brokering means you sell time to someoen else, and that person sells all ad time in the brokered time. Barter is not the same as brokering... Glenn Beck is barter-based syndicated show, not a brokered show.

David, I was a bit skeptical mentioning KLAA, and I know that they will not be "brokering time" much past the end of this year (save weekends), but the 9a-3p block of health, religion, and finance peddlers is clearly brokered. No, Glenn Beck isn't brokered; he's bartered through Premiere. My point was that these stations broker some of their hours and fill the other ones with audience-generating, non-brokered shows, be they bartered syndication or paid local hosts. You are right in that KLAA may be somewhat different from the others, but in that they sell 60 or so hours a week, I'd say they qualify at least for consideration.

 

[raydioaydio]

Just perusing this board for the first time. As a long-time radio vet, I'm somewhat amazed at the speculation that WINZ, which is showing life for the first time in many years, would abandon their format. The addition of Jim DeFede in mornings has added a much-needed element, and a nice bump in the fall book as well.

I'm surprised that no one has commented on that show in this thread. Or do people here just speculate without listening?