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WINZ

And the station that I think should flip to FM News: 94.9 WMGE!

I have a feeling that an FM News format would be a ratings killer and with WMGE's mediocre ratings, this would be a good format to execute.

Thoughts?
 
Are you suggesting CC puts what has been WIOD's programming on WINZ-FM? While there still is a WINZ? Talk about confusion.
 
I meant all news, like WINZ was before adding talk. If they're going to simulcast WIOD, then obviously they should go with WIOD-FM.
 
I don't think news on the radio has anywhere near as much cache it did years ago. The news junkies have too many platforms for them to get the information they want, when they want, how they want, with the slant they want...and they don't have to turn to a staticy AM station to do wait for what they want. Same thing for all that secondary cume who'd listen to other stations but would tune in to the big news stick for the top of the hour news, a weather bulletin or a traffic report. They now can get that info anywhere anytime.

All news exists and thrives in some larger markets but is doing so because they have been doing it consistently for 30 plus years. Even then, I don't think the demos are particularly good and outside of morning drive, the numbers are usually pretty anemic.

An all news start up on AM or FM will not fly in Miami - especially since there is a history of it being fairly well done and still no numbers.

Put the old WIOD with Neil et al on to FM, that would have done fabulous.

Put on today's WIOD on FM, it'd do also real well, much better than it is doing on AM.

But I still say it's more likely - although not very - to see Cox flip 93.1 to news/talk.
 
There are obviously are many sources for news, traffic, and weather information these days, but let's pretend you're in your car, you only have AM/FM radio, and you're stuck in traffic. You may want to turn on the radio and try to find out what is going on. Or if you see ominious looking weather (although that's a daily occurrence in South Florida during the summer), you might want to flip on the radio to hear a weather report. I guess it depends on the circumstances, and I think a clear FM News signal would be a success. I'm not really talking about News/Talk, I'm talking about mostly news, along with maybe a few talk shows thrown in middays, nights, or weekends.

But a local, live, and informative FM News and information source could be a success if properly executed.
 
Given that I've already designed a logo for "Club 95" (as per another thread) taking over WMGE, I'd agree that 93.1 would be the better frequency for a News/Talk or News flip.
 
Faraway said:
I don't think news on the radio has anywhere near as much cache it did years ago. The news junkies have too many platforms for them to get the information they want, when they want, how they want, with the slant they want...and they don't have to turn to a staticy AM station to do wait for what they want.
Click to expand...

What about 1010 WINS?

Josh C. said:
Given that I've already designed a logo for "Club 95" (as per another thread) taking over WMGE, I'd agree that 93.1 would be the better frequency for a News/Talk or News flip.
Click to expand...

But do you think Cox of all companies would do that?
 
By the way, WINS was mentioned, but don't forget the others... KCBS in San Francisco, KFWB and KNX in Los Angeles, KOMO in Seattle, KQV in Pittsburgh, KYW in Philadelphia, WBBM in Chicago, WTOP in Washington and, just across I-94 from me, WWJ in Detroit.

And if anyone thinks to say that the majority of those stations are also-rans in their markets, they only need look at the numbers:
- Market 1: WINS ranks 7th and WCBS ranks 14th out of 33 rated stations.
- Market 3: WBBM ranks 3rd out of 38 rated stations.
- Market 4: KCBS ranks 3rd out of 42 rated stations.
- Market 7: KYW ranks 3rd out of 30 rated stations.
- Market 8: WTOP ranks 3rd out of 32 rated stations.
- Market 10: WWJ ranks 8th out of 31 rated stations.
- Market 14: KOMO ranks 5th out of 30 rated stations.

The notable exceptions are in Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. KQV ranks 20th out of 29 rated stations in Pittsburgh. KNX ranks 22nd and KFWB ranks 28th out of 44 stations rated in Los Angeles.
 
The stations mentioned bill huge numbers, but they took years to build and they are expensive to operate. With the exception of KOMO, they have been around 25 - 30 years. They were built when the economics of radio were a lot different.

Does anyone really think that CC or Cox or even CBS would be willing to invest in an expensive and slow build format like all news? Especially in a market lke Miami where there is no history of it having success? Expecially when the format, generally, is experiencing degrees of cume erosion. I am not underestimating the billing prowess of the format but if you think about the economies of corp radio today, then combine with the fact its a format that's expensive to operate, slow to grow and even where it's successful t's seeing a drop off of listening, why in the wide, wide world of sports would anyone think that all-news is a realistic option?

News/TALK? Different story. Cox could do something traditional, wrapping around their own Clark Howard and Neil Boortz. Of course, the biggest and quickest impact would be if they got Neil back. I'm out of the market now, but I'm told Neil isn't able to do the show he once did but he is one of those rare characters who can go to a nothing station and make it successful in one or two books. As I understand it, part of the problem right now is he's surrounded by awful programmng. Put him in a different environment - on FM - with more compatible talent around him, and watch the numbers soar. Especially in good demos. Now, who would the board like to see join Neil on an FM station? Twenty lashes with a wet noodle if you suggest R&S.
 
You're absolutely right... none of the Big Boys have the patience it would take to build an all-news station in the market.

However, take a look at the history WINZ had in the format. Now, granted, this was before consolidation and corporate radio's ADHD issues, but I believe they lasted nearly a decade (they picked up Rush first in, what, 94? 95?) as an all-news station. That's the first I recall hearing talk programming on the station, and until that point, I can remember them being all-news since I remember first being able to turn on a radio (darn near since birth). That's a pretty good chunk of time for a format that ultimately failed. Plus, you add in the fact that this is a market in which FM caught on very early on and that even by the time I was born (1985) AM listenership in the market had already started eroding quite a bit, and the more apparent it becomes: someone had to be listening for them to have lasted that long.

Could an FM news station succeed where WINZ failed? I think so. But again, as you say, no one would be willing to try it.

As for who to put on an FM talker, I'm not sure there are any syndicated voices who aren't already taken in the market, so that's all the more excuse to go local :) Neil would be great for mornings, but as for who else to round out the bill, I'm not sure who all would be available (and I agree, R&S wouldn't fly).
 
FM radio was a success here in South Florida long before it was a success in many other major U.S. markets. Some of our heritage FMers back then (including Y-100) were legendary and nationally-renown back in the early-to-mid-1970s. I believe that nationwide FM radio listenership finally surpassed that of AM radio sometime in 1977 or perhaps even into 1978. It was several years before that here in South Florida based on my historical research of the subject. Admittingly I did not live here back then. I was still a grade school kid up in the Washington D.C. area.

We do not know how well a News or Talk or News-Talk hybrid station will perform here in this radio market until it actually occurs. It's never been done before. You can't really compare how any given station's performance on AM radio will reflect its potential FM performance. Remember when the naysayers emphatically stated that TOP 40 radio was doomed to fail on FM back in the early-1970s when it was the longtime King of the AM airwaves ? Fast Forward to 2007, and we've got an entire generation that's growing up and listening to the radio that essentially doesn't recongnize the mere existence of AM radio - particularly right here in South Florida. Put it on FM. Let them discover it. They will come !

THE MAJOR
 
WINZ went all-news around 1975, but had talk in the overnight dayparts. WNWS (790) also went all-news that same year with the NBC News and Information Service. WNWS drifted toward talk by 1979, leaving only a morning all-news block and updates during the day. WINZ oscillated between more talk/less news and less talk/more news through the 80s. It won Neil Rogers away from NWS in 1984, just as Neil made the move away from traditional (liberal) political talk and began to evolve into something akin to the current day act.
WINZ moved him to middays and de-emphasized news. Then it moved Neil to its sister FM and re-upped the news content by signing with CNN for the off-hours. In 1993 it became the hub of Bud Paxson's early version of "hub and spoke" with stations in Tampa and Orlando, then picked up Limbaugh when Paxson got tired of playing radio. I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Supertalk days or Brooke Daniels... ;)

I think the biggest impediment to talk on FM is Miami - Ft. Lauderdale's relatively low English-dominant numbers. If Miami were ranked with other markets according to raw numbers of English-dominant households, where would it fall? 25th? 35th? 40th?
 
smedge2006 said:
WINZ went all-news around 1975, but had talk in the overnight dayparts. WNWS (790) also went all-news that same year with the NBC News and Information Service. WNWS drifted toward talk by 1979, leaving only a morning all-news block and updates during the day. WINZ oscillated between more talk/less news and less talk/more news through the 80s. It won Neil Rogers away from NWS in 1984, just as Neil made the move away from traditional (liberal) political talk and began to evolve into something akin to the current day act.
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Hold on a sec.... WINZ was the NBC/NIS station until NBC pulled the plug on the news network, WNWS was indepedent and by the time it changed format from the short lived Beautiful Music format NBC/NIS was history. In fact WNWS bought all the old NIS sounders (staging music).

All news stations seem to have better ratings in the north where there is severe weather in the winter.
 
I don't think a 24/7 all news station on is viable. There has to be other programming too. There just isn't enough news, unless you drag in alot of filler side stories (like that Panda that's been in the news for a week, local feel good stuff or human interest stories). It works on Television, because after a half hour, you can change and put on another show. Unless something major happens, the news doesn't change that often during the course of a few hours.

People like diversity, but also don't like having to keep flipping the dial so much. Sure a news based FM would be a good idea, but it has to have the right mix of news vs talk. Take it from television. Do news from 5-9a, noon-1 & 4-7, keep the repetition in those hour blocks to a minimum and allow "Breaking News" anytime...when it warrants. Go syndicated or Local for talk in between.
 
Stuart Elliott said:
I don't think a 24/7 all news station on is viable. There has to be other programming too. There just isn't enough news, unless you drag in alot of filler side stories (like that Panda that's been in the news for a week, local feel good stuff or human interest stories). It works on Television, because after a half hour, you can change and put on another show. Unless something major happens, the news doesn't change that often during the course of a few hours.

People like diversity, but also don't like having to keep flipping the dial so much. Sure a news based FM would be a good idea, but it has to have the right mix of news vs talk. Take it from television. Do news from 5-9a, noon-1 & 4-7, keep the repetition in those hour blocks to a minimum and allow "Breaking News" anytime...when it warrants. Go syndicated or Local for talk in between.
Click to expand...

Don't tell WINS, WCBS, WBBM, and WTOP that. They have been doing all news for a long time now.
 
AM or FM the problem with all news is it's expensive and owners are reluctant to spend unless there is a big payoff. It takes reporters anchors and support staff to make it work. People cost money.

It's also why TV stopped doing any local programming other than news. It's cheaper to play reruns of sitcoms rather than come up with origional local programming. That's a loss for all of us.

I wonder if anybody in local TV will figure out they could do a local version of "reality" TV that the networks are doing without the network. The fun thing about a local show is you are more likely to see someone you know on TV. Call me crazy!
 
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