Wisconsin Vote Makes MSNBC Anchors Cry

[recto101]

In the two messages giving audience size, are we comparing oranges to oranges?

I got the idea the the audience numbers for the cable channels was actual audience size at any given time or cumulative audience for one given night. The audience numbers for the radio news states appear to be weekly cumes or something.

The numbers showing two NYC news station with almost as many listeners combined as there are people in NYC. If that was for a given time period on one night, that would mean all the other stations in the market had a wimpy audience of practically nothing.

I know Nielsen took data on this but out of 310 million people in the United States only 2.9 million watch Fox News and 1 million watch MSNBC I would think the cumes would be much larger. I remember when Peter Jennings died, Broadcasting and Journalism experts thought the 30 Minute Network News would dissapear and only 24 hour cable News/Talk stations will only exist.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Who is saying Schultz is a journalist?

You are correct about Schultz. He is a former sports jock turned talk show host. Plus he landed his current time slot at MSNBC when Keith Olbermann was let go by the network.

Olberman too was once a Sports Voice. He was never a journalist though (if you ask me). Since his latest meltdown-de-fatale at Current TV, Olberman has appeared as a guest on mainstream media Talk segments.

 

[Ultimajock]

Olberman too was once a Sports Voice. He was never a journalist though (if you ask me). Since his latest meltdown-de-fatale at Current TV, Olberman has appeared as a guest on mainstream media Talk segments.

...Olby still has business ties to Major League Baseball, and in fact has one of their "official" blogs - http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/ - which is normally entertaining to read, even for more casual fans of the sport like me. As for Current TV, I suspect there's a damned good chance that Olbermann will sock it to 'em real good when his lawsuit gets onto the docket; I voted for Algore in the 2000 General Election but had to go directly home and shower immediately afterwards, I felt so unclean about having to choose between him and GWB. I suspect his business ethics will be proven to be as distasteful as John Edwards' has been, conviction or not...

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

Olberman too was once a Sports Voice. He was never a journalist though (if you ask me). Since his latest meltdown-de-fatale at Current TV, Olberman has appeared as a guest on mainstream media Talk segments.

...Olby still has business ties to Major League Baseball, and in fact has one of their "official" blogs - http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/ - which is normally entertaining to read, even for more casual fans of the sport like me. As for Current TV, I suspect there's a damned good chance that Olbermann will sock it to 'em real good when his lawsuit gets onto the docket; I voted for Algore in the 2000 General Election but had to go directly home and shower immediately afterwards, I felt so unclean about having to choose between him and GWB. I suspect his business ethics will be proven to be as distasteful as John Edwards' has been, conviction or not...

I myself finally went with GWB, but I admit the pickin's that year were scant. Getting back to the thread, NBC dropped Olberman from MSNBC's Bush-Kerry coverage team in '04. Even NBC bristled at his loose canon reporting style, fearing he would go ballistic if Bush won, which he did.

 

[recto101]

Olberman too was once a Sports Voice. He was never a journalist though (if you ask me). Since his latest meltdown-de-fatale at Current TV, Olberman has appeared as a guest on mainstream media Talk segments.

...Olby still has business ties to Major League Baseball, and in fact has one of their "official" blogs - http://keitholbermann.mlblogs.com/ - which is normally entertaining to read, even for more casual fans of the sport like me. As for Current TV, I suspect there's a damned good chance that Olbermann will sock it to 'em real good when his lawsuit gets onto the docket; I voted for Algore in the 2000 General Election but had to go directly home and shower immediately afterwards, I felt so unclean about having to choose between him and GWB. I suspect his business ethics will be proven to be as distasteful as John Edwards' has been, conviction or not...

Wait for one second I remember Keith Olbermann on Current complained about his treatment at Fox Sports Net during the height of the Murdoch's UK scandal.

 

[Ultimajock]

Wait for one second I remember Keith Olbermann on Current complained about his treatment at Fox Sports Net during the height of the Murdoch's UK scandal.

...well. Rupert Murdoch is his own galaxy of corruption. ;D ...

 

[Bob1370]

Leaving aside the fact that a 53-47 vote isn't exactly an overwhelming win, the ratings some folks use as a kind of political plebiscite can be misleading. Fox News may be on top in total viewers but its share is declining AND it's also skewed old (50+) and male--so MSNBC is actually a more profitable network because its audience, which is heavy with 25-49s, is more desirable for advertisers. TV is a business, and while Fox may win the Nielsen total audience battle, MSNBC wins the money war. Businessman that he is, Rupert Murdoch would gladly switch places with NBC any day of the week.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Leaving aside the fact that a 53-47 vote isn't exactly an overwhelming win, the ratings some folks use as a kind of political plebiscite can be misleading. Fox News may be on top in total viewers but its share is declining AND it's also skewed old (50+) and male--so MSNBC is actually a more profitable network because its audience, which is heavy with 25-49s, is more desirable for advertisers. TV is a business, and while Fox may win the Nielsen total audience battle, MSNBC wins the money war. Businessman that he is, Rupert Murdoch would gladly switch places with NBC any day of the week.

The actual ratings don't back this up. FNC's prime time gathers about 2.5 times the viewership of MSNBC's prime time on a typical night. In the adults 25-54 demo, not in total viewers.

Yes, FNC's does draw in more old viewers than MSNBC, but they are doing fine in the demos as well.

 

[Irishfl]

Leaving aside the fact that a 53-47 vote isn't exactly an overwhelming win, the ratings some folks use as a kind of political plebiscite can be misleading. Fox News may be on top in total viewers but its share is declining AND it's also skewed old (50+) and male--so MSNBC is actually a more profitable network because its audience, which is heavy with 25-49s, is more desirable for advertisers. TV is a business, and while Fox may win the Nielsen total audience battle, MSNBC wins the money war. Businessman that he is, Rupert Murdoch would gladly switch places with NBC any day of the week.

So basically barley anybody watches fox news, those who do are all old people, and even with them fox is just preaching to the choir anyway?

So that begs the question...why does the left make such a big deal about such an insignificant network? All the websites charting fox's bias, nicknames like "faux noise" & "We Distort, You comply", protests, ect?

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

So basically barley anybody watches fox news, those who do are all old people, and even with them fox is just preaching to the choir anyway?

So that begs the question...why does the left make such a big deal about such an insignificant network? All the websites charting fox's bias, nicknames like "faux noise" & "We Distort, You comply", protests, ect?

Assuming you are right about the age of the Fox News audience, that could be an indication that the channel is less than great as an advertising medium. BUT, continuing to assume you are right, the LEFT concerns itself with the Fox listeners.... even if they are not good commercial advertising targets, they are still eligible VOTERS. Elections are won and lost on the vote count, not on the advertising agency assessment of the audience values. And these commercially less-than-desireable viewers make great "evangelists" of the message of the Right.

We can make a similar assessment of the audience of the channels catering to people of the Left. You can analyze their buying habits every which way from Sunday. For ideology purposes, it is their willingness to vote, to help get other voters out, and their skills at being "evangelists" that must be evaluated.

 

[FreddyE1977]

And these commercially less-than-desireable viewers make great "evangelists" of the message of the Right.

Funny that even though I watch Fox News and lean to the right, I never quite pictured myself as an "evangelist".
I have never walked up to a stranger in a parking lot to discuss politics or to try and persuade him or her how
they should vote. Nor do I take the bait when people from the left approach me with that intent.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as I see it, whether I agree with them or not. This
picture of Fox News viewers as some telepathically directed army sent out to subvert the minds of American
voters is just plain silly.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

And these commercially less-than-desireable viewers make great "evangelists" of the message of the Right.

Funny that even though I watch Fox News and lean to the right, I never quite pictured myself as an "evangelist".
I have never walked up to a stranger in a parking lot to discuss politics or to try and persuade him or her how
they should vote.

Maybe I should move to where ever you live!

I was out mowing my front yard Saturday. A man is walking down the street and waves. I shut the mower down long enough to say hello. He explained to me where he lives. We exchanged names. Within 90 seconds, the evangelist mode is on!!!

It's the "Georgia Way". I live in the second most conservative voting county in America. They didn't get that distinction by keeping their politics out of casual conversation.

 

[jfrancispastirchak]

I live in the second most conservative voting county in America. They didn't get that distinction by keeping their politics out of casual conversation.

And that's the qualifier. There is comfort in numbers; expression comes easy to people of like mind gathering in such grand clusters. I witnessed such ease while living in Texas. Many, myself included, stay mum on their views, and refrain from risking confrontation, unless of course they feel comfortable in a familiar crowd they trust would embrace my opinions.

 

[quadraphonic]

Maybe I should move to where ever you live!

You could move to wherever FreddyE lives, or any of the other thousands of counties where strangers don't encounter one another on politicized terms, or at least to a lesser degree than in the second most conservative voting county in America.
It would open your eyes, I guess....

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Maybe I should move to where ever you live!

You could move to wherever FreddyE lives, or any of the other thousands of counties where strangers don't encounter one another on politicized terms, or at least to a lesser degree than in the second most conservative voting county in America.
It would open your eyes, I guess....

I'm not sure how I am supposed to interpret the part of your message that I have underlined.

How we "socialize" in this country changes more rapidly today than I remember changes happening a few decades back. I doubt that this unique little piece of Georgia geography is all that different than what much of America has become.... when it comes to the way we converse with one another, the way we wear our affiliations "on our shirtsleeves" to paraphrase a concept that comes right out of Christian scripture.

Tell me what I might be seeing if somehow my eyes were to open. What would be new? I've lived in 15 different counties scattered over eight different states. I did Conservative Talk Radio back in the height of the Civil Rights Movement and the Vietnam "backlash". I once worked for a man who instructed me to attend at least three signficant seminars a year, and to not always attend them the same cities over and over... he wanted me to bring home the thinking and techniquest from around that nation. I took him at his word. I traveled as far west as Phoenix, as far east as NYC and Hartford. As far north as Chicago and as far south as Orlando, New Orleans and Houston. And for a guy in his 30s, it left me with "eyes as wide open as saucers!"

The events in Wisconsin last year along with the "spill over recall election" this year is the tip of a nationwide iceberg. Two political parties that decided neither would give and we will fight over these issues "the the death of one of us!" has become a national epidemic. Cable channel talkers siding with the political factions as cheerleaders rather than journalists. Truckloads of out of state campaign money coming to the aid of both sides.

To paraphrase the Oldsmobile advertising verbiage from a few years back: "This is not your father's political stage."

And all this political chaos that our nation needs to digest and sort out comes at a time when the institutions of journalism cannot fund and finance the level of coverage that would be beneficial in helping us digest and sort out. A century ago Wisconsin was a place where a lot of ideas were given birth that spread out to become the foundational fabric of much of the nation. Maybe it is their time to rise to the occasion and once again show the rest of the nation a better way to do things.

Now if you will excuse me, I am the web-master for a group in Americas second most conservative voting county, and need to go do a bit of HTML Housekeeping. ;D

 

[FreddyE1977]

Maybe I should move to where ever you live!

You could move to wherever FreddyE lives, or any of the other thousands of counties where strangers don't encounter one another on politicized terms, or at least to a lesser degree than in the second most conservative voting county in America.
It would open your eyes, I guess....

I live in a traditionally union blue collar yellow-dog Democrat area just outside Pittsburgh.
I like to joke that the local Republican Party consists of my brother and I, and holds it's
quarterly meetings in a booth down at the local pub. And that ain't far from the truth.
I am sure most of my neighbors don't agree with me politically, but that's their right, and
who wants the stress of fighting all the time? Anyhow, I doubt I am going to change any
minds by annoying them.

Most people continue to pull the Democrat lever each election but cannot tell you why.
"Because my dad and grandpa did, and they told me they're for the WORKIN' MAN" is a
typical response. Although curiously the area is socially quite conservative (Pittsburgh is
a heavily and traditionally Catholic town). Most voters seem to agree with the Democrats
on economic issues, but abhor their views on social ones.

(actually I think I understand the people who are diametrically opposed to my views, but
can offer a cogent explanation of why, much better than all those who just go on voting the same
way year after year for reasons they can't explain).

Towards that end I think Mr. Obama is going to have some serious problems with the voters around
here. He is not at all popular with most of the people I encounter, the vast majority of whom are
registered Democrats. Much of that has to do with the economy. But his stance on gay marriage
seems to have offended their socially conservative sensibilities, and his mandate that they must pay
for birth control has the Catholic Church actively campaigning against him.

The closest thing to an evangelist here are some people a couple of blocks away who have a fairly new
van on which they have painted their own ads urging people to watch the nightly program line-up
on MSNBC. They are nice enough folks, but that strikes me as an odd thing to do with a perfectly
good van. At least MSNBC could kick in some gas money in return for the free advertising.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I live in a traditionally union blue collar yellow-dog Democrat area just outside Pittsburgh.
I like to joke that the local Republican Party consists of my brother and I, and holds it's
quarterly meetings in a booth down at the local pub. And that ain't far from the truth.
I am sure most of my neighbors don't agree with me politically, but that's their right, and
who wants the stress of fighting all the time? Anyhow, I doubt I am going to change any
minds by annoying them.

With more radio stations on the air than ever, and with the "all you can eat... and more" choices we have on Cable TV and Satellite TV, one could dream that the American people would reach out and expand their view of the political scene. And some have. (I like to think that I have.) But when we look around us, I think we see that a lot of people.... if they are drinking in any political input at all, are simply going to sources that re-enforce their existing views.

If you and I could go up and down the streets where you live and just listen to people, maybe engage them in conversation (No evangelism!!!) you and I would agree that some of what they claim to believe, claim to have an allegiance to.... just doesn't make sense for them and their circumstances.

If you and I could go up and down the streets where I live, we would find people much the reverse of what you find in your neighborhood, but I think we would agree that some of what they support in my neighborhood does not make sense for them and their circumstances.

We have a real challenge in this country.... and I guess we have always had this challenge. We don't like society and government taking the "Big Brother" attitude and coming in to tell us what is good for us. And yet, for self-government to work and continue working, people who vote, and people who roll up their sleeves and get projects and movements done, need input from outside sources. It is like comparing your watch to a master clock now and then to make sure your watch is still accurate. How do my neighbors know if their philosophical and political watch is accurate? What about your neighbors?

Now, let's go back to the topic of our thread and look at MSNBC, and maybe look at what is something of a mirror image over at Fox News. Would they be more effective or a bit less effective if the Anchors would remain a bit less emotionally attached to the events/news they are reporting and discussing? Is there something both of these networks (and maybe all news outlets) could do that would cause viewers who do not share the bias of the network to tune in from time to time because they find that it expands their understanding to hear the other side's view. I'm afraid the performance of both MSNBC and FOX do a good job of making the faithful more rigid than ever.

I am CURIOUS to a fault. I want to know WHY my friends and I choose the side we stand with. I want to know if it is time we modify where we stand. I want to know if the people I disagree with are just being selfish or are they in favor of things that are good for our future. (And good for our today?) As ugly as it has been, whatever is happening in Wisconsin is going to be good for the NATION in the long run. Yes, I have some personal disappointment in what the voters decided last week, and the effect that may have on the upcoming national election. But it is a state that still has some balance of strength between the two sides, and it is a state with some good intellectuals and think-tanks. In the coming months so good editorials, surveys and books will emerge from Wisconsin sources that will be helpful to the rest of us in this nation. This battle could have happened in a state where one side was not able to tell it's story after the battle. In Wisconsin, both side will lick their wounds, do some self examination, and we will have access to their wisdom. And Fox News and MSNBC will make sure we know about these editorials, surveys and books.

Thanks for your evaluation of your neighborhood in the Pittsburgh area. I don't know much about the demographics of your area. I do know from the "politics" of my own religious group that Pittsburgh is an "anchor" area within my group that I find hard to deal with. (And they don't have nice things to say about me. ;D )