WIVK questions

[the_scoop]

Guys, first off, I don't get to spend a lot of time in Knoxville. I usually only get to Chattanooga and Nashville. So, my radio knowledge of East Tennessee primarily only comes from the board and past visits. With that, I have some questions:

WIVK is number one and has been for a long time. I understand that. I also know that they aren't the most refined radio station ever invented. I'm not saying this for fact, but rather that was the comment made to me by a person from Dick Broadcasting several years ago. He noted they sometimes shifted from songs straight to a spot set without announcing a thing. They also noted that no one cared because the station was easily number one and brought in the cash. Whatever works is fine was the thinking.

Some things stood out to me this weekend however. I always figured they carried the Vols games and that has to help with the ratings. What I was surprised about was the fact that I never heard any call letters or station imaging returns into or out of breaks on the Vol network broadcast. Perhaps I didn't listen long enough, but that's odd. I was always taught to drop the 5 second returns out (or into, depending on format) breaks for maintenance. Is this the way they do it?

Second, the station is obviously number one for several reasons. It has a powerful signal, the country format plays well to the East Tennesssee audience and if you add the Vol network, that's an instant attraction. Overall, I thought they sounded pretty good. I did notice that maybe when going into a break there was extended amounts of chatter-- a little longer than what I would notice at other country stations around the region. Overall, they seem to be pretty good in my eyes.

I suppose my question is this: how long have they been dominant and could someone knock them off? I know it would take a Herculean effort to take them down and there are only one or two signals in town capable of doing it-- one of which is owned by Citadel as well. My thinking is if you had a blowtorch signal, got the rights to the Vol network and put a quality product on the air you could beat them. It happened up the road in Lexington, KY, so it could happen in Knoxville.

I'm not saying any of this would happen. It's all hypothetical for board chatter.I'm just curious as to what the natives think.

 

[wimzfan]

> Guys, first off, I don't get to spend a lot of time in
> Knoxville. I usually only get to Chattanooga and Nashville.
> So, my radio knowledge of East Tennessee primarily only
> comes from the board and past visits. With that, I have some
> questions:
>
> WIVK is number one and has been for a long time. I
> understand that. I also know that they aren't the most
> refined radio station ever invented. I'm not saying this for
> fact, but rather that was the comment made to me by a person
> from Dick Broadcasting several years ago. He noted they
> sometimes shifted from songs straight to a spot set without
> announcing a thing. They also noted that no one cared
> because the station was easily number one and brought in the
> cash. Whatever works is fine was the thinking.
>
> Some things stood out to me this weekend however. I always
> figured they carried the Vols games and that has to help
> with the ratings. What I was surprised about was the fact
> that I never heard any call letters or station imaging
> returns into or out of breaks on the Vol network broadcast.
> Perhaps I didn't listen long enough, but that's odd. I was
> always taught to drop the 5 second returns out (or into,
> depending on format) breaks for maintenance. Is this the way
> they do it?
>
> Second, the station is obviously number one for several
> reasons. It has a powerful signal, the country format plays
> well to the East Tennesssee audience and if you add the Vol
> network, that's an instant attraction. Overall, I thought
> they sounded pretty good. I did notice that maybe when going
> into a break there was extended amounts of chatter-- a
> little longer than what I would notice at other country
> stations around the region. Overall, they seem to be pretty
> good in my eyes.
>
> I suppose my question is this: how long have they been
> dominant and could someone knock them off? I know it would
> take a Herculean effort to take them down and there are only
> one or two signals in town capable of doing it-- one of
> which is owned by Citadel as well. My thinking is if you had
> a blowtorch signal, got the rights to the Vol network and
> put a quality product on the air you could beat them. It
> happened up the road in Lexington, KY, so it could happen in
> Knoxville.
>
> I'm not saying any of this would happen. It's all
> hypothetical for board chatter.I'm just curious as to what
> the natives think.

It could probably be done, but it would more than likely take to 100.3 signal to do so. WIMZ's got a strong signal too, I've heard WIMZ come in loud and clear well into Kentucky.

It would also help to steal a few of the most popular air talents from WIVK also. That would cause loyal listeners to follow their favorite DJ's. I think that, some good advertising and promotion, and the strong signal could knock old WIVIK the frog off his lillypad.

To me, WIVK does a terrible job with the country format. They have too much talking, too many commercials, and a lousy worn out playlist. They think playing a classic is going back the the late 80's. They play the same songs over and over and over within the same day. There are times that in between sets of music, they have almost 30 minutes worth of talk and commercials! If I had to bet on a station to bring down WIVK, I would put my money on South 105.7 WWSR. They've got great on air personalities that talk, but not too much. The variety is incredible. They play the current stuff and play stuff as far back as the 50's. They even throw in a little rock n roll. They keep the commercials to a minimum. But the signal is not strong at all. If that station were on a stronger signal, they might do some damage to WIVK. But, then again, you've got that WIVK name - it's been around so long, people just turn to it out of habit. I like to think of the WIVK name the same way as JFG Mayonnaise. It's been used in my family for years. My mom and dad bought it when I was a kid. When I got out on my own, I continued using it. Even though the other brands are out there and some are probably better than JFG, I still go for that jar of JFG mayonnaise simply because I've been used to it for years. Same thing with the WIVK name.
>

 

[jwk1979]

> > Guys, first off, I don't get to spend a lot of time in
> > Knoxville. I usually only get to Chattanooga and
> Nashville.
> > So, my radio knowledge of East Tennessee primarily only
> > comes from the board and past visits. With that, I have
> some
> > questions:
> >
> > WIVK is number one and has been for a long time. I
> > understand that. I also know that they aren't the most
> > refined radio station ever invented. I'm not saying this
> for
> > fact, but rather that was the comment made to me by a
> person
> > from Dick Broadcasting several years ago. He noted they
> > sometimes shifted from songs straight to a spot set
> without
> > announcing a thing. They also noted that no one cared
> > because the station was easily number one and brought in
> the
> > cash. Whatever works is fine was the thinking.
> >
> > Some things stood out to me this weekend however. I always
>
> > figured they carried the Vols games and that has to help
> > with the ratings. What I was surprised about was the fact
> > that I never heard any call letters or station imaging
> > returns into or out of breaks on the Vol network
> broadcast.
> > Perhaps I didn't listen long enough, but that's odd. I was
>
> > always taught to drop the 5 second returns out (or into,
> > depending on format) breaks for maintenance. Is this the
> way
> > they do it?
> >
> > Second, the station is obviously number one for several
> > reasons. It has a powerful signal, the country format
> plays
> > well to the East Tennesssee audience and if you add the
> Vol
> > network, that's an instant attraction. Overall, I thought
> > they sounded pretty good. I did notice that maybe when
> going
> > into a break there was extended amounts of chatter-- a
> > little longer than what I would notice at other country
> > stations around the region. Overall, they seem to be
> pretty
> > good in my eyes.
> >
> > I suppose my question is this: how long have they been
> > dominant and could someone knock them off? I know it would
>
> > take a Herculean effort to take them down and there are
> only
> > one or two signals in town capable of doing it-- one of
> > which is owned by Citadel as well. My thinking is if you
> had
> > a blowtorch signal, got the rights to the Vol network and
> > put a quality product on the air you could beat them. It
> > happened up the road in Lexington, KY, so it could happen
> in
> > Knoxville.
> >
> > I'm not saying any of this would happen. It's all
> > hypothetical for board chatter.I'm just curious as to what
>
> > the natives think.
>
> It could probably be done, but it would more than likely
> take to 100.3 signal to do so. WIMZ's got a strong signal
> too, I've heard WIMZ come in loud and clear well into
> Kentucky.
>
> It would also help to steal a few of the most popular air
> talents from WIVK also. That would cause loyal listeners to
> follow their favorite DJ's. I think that, some good
> advertising and promotion, and the strong signal could knock
> old WIVIK the frog off his lillypad.

> To me, WIVK does a terrible job with the country format.
> They have too much talking, too many commercials, and a
> lousy worn out playlist. They think playing a classic is
> going back the the late 80's. They play the same songs over
> and over and over within the same day. There are times that
> in between sets of music, they have almost 30 minutes worth
> of talk and commercials! If I had to bet on a station to
> bring down WIVK, I would put my money on South 105.7 WWSR.
> They've got great on air personalities that talk, but not
> too much. The variety is incredible. They play the current
> stuff and play stuff as far back as the 50's. They even
> throw in a little rock n roll. They keep the commercials to
> a minimum. But the signal is not strong at all. If that
> station were on a stronger signal, they might do some damage
> to WIVK. But, then again, you've got that WIVK name - it's
> been around so long, people just turn to it out of habit. I
> like to think of the WIVK name the same way as JFG
> Mayonnaise. It's been used in my family for years. My mom
> and dad bought it when I was a kid. When I got out on my
> own, I continued using it. Even though the other brands are
> out there and some are probably better than JFG, I still go
> for that jar of JFG mayonnaise simply because I've been used
> to it for years. Same thing with the WIVK name.
> >
>
I don't live in Knoxville now, but I grew up in Knoxville and still have family in Knoxville and I still get up there about once every six to eight weeks, so I feel I can talk about WIVK. WIVK is the only country station in Knoxville with a good signal. Every other station in the Knoxville area that has tried country music has ended up failing and changing formats after a year or so. The only station that had any success as a country station in recent years was WOKI when they were at 100.3. And that ended when WOKI was purchased by Dick Broadcasting, the owners of WIVK at the time. Any station that will try to program country music against WIVK more than likely end up on the short end of a losing battle. I also have to disagree with you, WIMZFan, about stealing some of the most popular air personalities from WIVK and the people will follow their favorite DJs to their new stations. Since NO ONE ELSE in Knoxville IS PROGRAMMING COUNTRY MUSIC, I don't think listeners would quit listening to WIVK just becasue Andy and Allison or Gunner went to another station. I don't think people follow their air personalities from station to station as much as most people are led to beleive. If Gunner were to leave WIVK for, lets say, WIMZ, a majority of his listeners are going to stay on WIVK, not follow him to WIMZ, unless WIMZ went country. The radio stations I listen to are based soley on the format and the music they play, not what DISC JOCKEY happens to be on the air at the time. Not only do I feel that way, but I have several friends that also choose their stations of choice based on music and format, not AIR PERSONALITIES. I will agree with you about the name WIVK. I know people that have not listened to any other station than WIVK for 25 or 30 based on the name, other than when they have gone out of town. WIVK is not programmed very well, but why change when NO ONE ELSE in Knoxville can compete with them with a country format.

 

[BRice16]

> Some things stood out to me this weekend however. I always
> figured they carried the Vols games and that has to help
> with the ratings. What I was surprised about was the fact
> that I never heard any call letters or station imaging
> returns into or out of breaks on the Vol network broadcast.
> Perhaps I didn't listen long enough, but that's odd. I was
> always taught to drop the 5 second returns out (or into,
> depending on format) breaks for maintenance. Is this the way
> they do it?
>

They can only do it at certain breaks where the Vol Network gives them an extra three seconds leading into the VN imaging.It's in their contract.

My thinking is if you had
> a blowtorch signal, got the rights to the Vol network and
> put a quality product on the air you could beat them. It
> happened up the road in Lexington, KY, so it could happen in
> Knoxville.

Nobody will get the Vol Network from them because they use the Citadel facilities as their home base and use their talent and behind the scenes people.

 

[Kent]

> I suppose my question is this: how long have they been
> dominant and could someone knock them off? I know it would
> take a Herculean effort to take them down and there are only
> one or two signals in town capable of doing it-- one of
> which is owned by Citadel as well. My thinking is if you had
> a blowtorch signal, got the rights to the Vol network and
> put a quality product on the air you could beat them. It
> happened up the road in Lexington, KY, so it could happen in
> Knoxville.
> I'm not saying any of this would happen. It's all
> hypothetical for board chatter.I'm just curious as to what
> the natives think.

Well, I'm not a native by any stretch, and I no longer reside in Knoxville. However, I'd like to comment. First of all, WIVK is the classic case of a station that only its intended audience, and almost all of its intended audience, gets. No one else gets it, but WIVK doesn't care. If WIVK were started in Dallas or Houston instead, it would still be successful (though not with the shares it has in Knoxville today). Why? Because it understands and speaks to its audience and has spoken to that audience consistently over the years. As you pointed out, WIVK is definitely not the most refined station. However, it's genuine, and it's honest. It's a great station because it is what it is and doesn't want to be anything else.

Can it be beaten? In a word, no. In more detail, so long as it sticks to its formula, beating it will be impossible. If WIVK falls, it will be for one of two reasons: (1) It makes changes and quits being what it is, or (2) radio goes the way of the dinosaur and is replaced by another medium. As another poster pointed out, it's not like no one has tried to knock it off. Pretty much everyone has.

The example you used was Lexington. I assume you're referring to WVLK-FM 92.9. If that's the case, you have to remember K-93 took to great lengths to dismantle itself. Cumulus bought it and, from what I've heard, did K-93 exactly how it did the stations I used to work for that were taken over by Cumulus. Corporate began taking over the music, and the staff began to give up. Getting any help from Atlanta to just be K-93 was impossible. In fact, Atlanta made K-93 not look anything like K-93 before long. When Cumulus took over, K-93 had almost double the ratings WBUL had. It took a lot of help from Cumulus to knock off K-93. The major market morning show (came from WKXK 94.7 Chicago and ended up moving to Atlanta a few years later), UK sports, Clear Channel promotional dollars, etc., were not enough to knock off K-93.

An upstart, no matter how good it is, simply cannot beat an established station on its own merit. Don't get me wrong, I've worked at successful upstarts, failed upstarts, established stations that have withstood the challenge of a new competitor, and established stations that have been dismantled. Certainly, goliath can be toppled, just not without a little help. In every case when the upstart was successful, it was because the established station orchestrated its own demise. In one case, it was because the PD of the established station decided the upstart was a station to be ignored and failed to check the market conditions that created the upstart in the first place. In another, it was because the established station began copying the upstart to the point that it got away from why it was so successful to begin with. The list goes on, but I've always been able to point to something the top dog has done or not done that has toppled it.

 

[wimzfan]

I also have to disagree with you, WIMZFan,
> about stealing some of the most popular air personalities
> from WIVK and the people will follow their favorite DJs to
> their new stations. Since NO ONE ELSE in Knoxville IS
> PROGRAMMING COUNTRY MUSIC, I don't think listeners would
> quit listening to WIVK just becasue Andy and Allison or
> Gunner went to another station. I don't think people follow
> their air personalities from station to station as much as
> most people are led to beleive. If Gunner were to leave WIVK
> for, lets say, WIMZ, a majority of his listeners are going
> to stay on WIVK, not follow him to WIMZ, unless WIMZ went
> country. The radio stations I listen to are based soley on
> the format and the music they play, not what DISC JOCKEY
> happens to be on the air at the time. Not only do I feel
> that way, but I have several friends that also choose their
> stations of choice based on music and format, not AIR
> PERSONALITIES. I will agree with you about the name WIVK. I
> know people that have not listened to any other station than
> WIVK for 25 or 30 based on the name, other than when they
> have gone out of town. WIVK is not programmed very well, but
> why change when NO ONE ELSE in Knoxville can compete with
> them with a country format.
>

When I wrote that, I didn't word it clearly - usually happens when I'm in a hurry. When I said that it would help to steal a couple of WIVK's most popular air personalities, I was meaning for a new country station to do so. I wouldn't follow Billy Kidd, who I've listened to for years, over to WIVK either. But I would follow him over to a new classic rock station (and it would be nice to have another one for a little competition.) Same thing for Andy & Allison or Gunner. If a new country station came up and they went to that new country station, I'd say some of their listeners would follow them, and that would benefit the new station alot, having someone on board that listeners already know. I really doubt that any of WIVK's air staff would even think about leaving the frog for another country station. I don't see anyone even having the balls to even think about flipping one of their stations to country any time soon.

 

[jwk1979]

> When I wrote that, I didn't word it clearly - usually
> happens when I'm in a hurry. When I said that it would help
> to steal a couple of WIVK's most popular air personalities,
> I was meaning for a new country station to do so. I
> wouldn't follow Billy Kidd, who I've listened to for years,
> over to WIVK either. But I would follow him over to a new
> classic rock station (and it would be nice to have another
> one for a little competition.) Same thing for Andy &
> Allison or Gunner. If a new country station came up and
> they went to that new country station, I'd say some of their
> listeners would follow them, and that would benefit the new
> station alot, having someone on board that listeners already
> know. I really doubt that any of WIVK's air staff would
> even think about leaving the frog for another country
> station. I don't see anyone even having the balls to even
> think about flipping one of their stations to country any
> time soon.
>
I don't know about the air staff at WIVK, but in most markets and with most station, the air personalities are under No Compete clauses that prohibit them from leaving one station to being on the air on another station in the same market for a specific amount of time, usually between 6 months to a year. I know Phil Williams has one because when he left WIMZ, it was about 6 months after he left WIMZ before he was allowed to to appear on WOKI. I would be really surprised if WIVK did not have their air talent under a simular contract, since it is a fairly standard practice in the radio and television business these days. Secondly, if I were to program a country station in Knoxville to compete against WIVK, there is NO ONE of the current air personalities that I would build a station around, especially Andy & Allison. There are a still a few radio personalities in the Knoxville area that I would build a station around, namely Phil Williams or Haliran Hilton Hill, but absolutely NO ONE at WIVK.

 

[wimzfan]

> I don't know about the air staff at WIVK, but in most
> markets and with most station, the air personalities are
> under No Compete clauses that prohibit them from leaving one
> station to being on the air on another station in the same
> market for a specific amount of time, usually between 6
> months to a year. I know Phil Williams has one because when
> he left WIMZ, it was about 6 months after he left WIMZ
> before he was allowed to to appear on WOKI. I would be
> really surprised if WIVK did not have their air talent under
> a simular contract, since it is a fairly standard practice
> in the radio and television business these days. Secondly,
> if I were to program a country station in Knoxville to
> compete against WIVK, there is NO ONE of the current air
> personalities that I would build a station around,
> especially Andy & Allison. There are a still a few radio
> personalities in the Knoxville area that I would build a
> station around, namely Phil Williams or Haliran Hilton Hill,
> but absolutely NO ONE at WIVK.

I agree with you about Andy & Allison. Coleen, maybe - but I'm with you on Andy & Allison. I'm glad there's someone besides me that feels that way about them. I cannot even force myself to listen to them and I've tried. It's like they steal ideas from the other morning shows and use them for themselves, and they're just too cheery and happy for me first thing in the morning. One morning I was listening because there was nothing else on the radio and after the last set of music ended, there was about 30, maybe 45 minutes worth of talk and commercials before they started the music again.

Anyone who would get Phil Williams is fortunate. He is a class act, and one of a few of his kind left in radio.

 

[BRice16]

> Anyone who would get Phil Williams is fortunate. He is a
> class act, and one of a few of his kind left in radio.
>

Now that he's done NewsTalk, he'll never do anything else. He loves it, and although exact ratings for his show are still incomplete, the volume of calls he is getting suggests that his show is doing very, very well.

He has said a couple of times that he'll never get up at 4 AM to do the morning shift again on a permanent basis.