WIZE AM goes Country

[pioneer71]

I must ask Sterolane if he has ever run an AM small market radio station? If so then he is speaking from experience. If not, with all due respect ,listen to people who are doing very well or have done well running such stations.

You can make money not only on sports coverage but also with a local morning live show, remotes and a number of NTR events. I know of several NTR events that could produce a very solid profit column.

This does not incude what you can generate with a solid web site. and certain program elements that I would add that will give you another revenue source. Will Kiss Country stations isten to WIZE? The answer is never in the numbers Kiss had. However, they will pull some numbers with a known product such as Lee Riley in the morning, some local news elements and the high school sports.

The problem is Clear Channel does not have the experience in A.E's who know how to sell small market radio and high school sports.They also don't have someone in Dayton who knows how to program ths station. What may work elsewhere does not mean it will work here.

Is Clear Channel the right company to pul t off ? I doubt it because they will not go outside the box and get help from outside.

 

[TANKSBACK]

Guess I was really really bored. Checked out the new WIZE website. What a piece of crap. Should be top rated at loser-websites.com.

 

[microbob]

CC uses the same template for all their websites. They all look like crap.

 

[KevinFodor]

I must ask Sterolane if he has ever run an AM small market radio station? If so then he is speaking from experience. If not, with all due respect ,listen to people who are doing very well or have done well running such stations.

You can make money not only on sports coverage but also with a local morning live show, remotes and a number of NTR events. I know of several NTR events that could produce a very solid profit column.

This does not incude what you can generate with a solid web site. and certain program elements that I would add that will give you another revenue source. Will Kiss Country stations isten to WIZE? The answer is never in the numbers Kiss had. However, they will pull some numbers with a known product such as Lee Riley in the morning, some local news elements and the high school sports.

The problem is Clear Channel does not have the experience in A.E's who know how to sell small market radio and high school sports.They also don't have someone in Dayton who knows how to program ths station. What may work elsewhere does not mean it will work here.

Is Clear Channel the right company to pul t off ? I doubt it because they will not go outside the box and get help from outside.

Pioneer:

While I agree with a lot of what you say regarding small markets...no listening these days ever goes from FM to AM. It doesn't matter who you put on...no one moves from FM to AM..period. The problem is: no one under 50 bothers to listen to AM for any reason whatsoever. You're talking to an older audience which might get you some local buys at a small amount per minute...but, obviously few and far between agency buys...except, for the local sports perhaps.

To even have a chance, you also need local news (not just condensed headlines from the local paper), farm information, etc. And...a constant, deliberate...presence in the community. But, forget Miracle Mile. Sources who've been in the building tell me it's in bad shape and has not been well taken care of.

The best small market stations that do still exist are in markets unlike Springfield...they are not near larger cities and are, an oasis amongst themselves, and thus, still marketable properties.
This WIZE...is not the WIZE of old and would not be automatically accepted as such. Most Springfield residents, I would believe, think "that WIZE" went off the air a long time ago...just as WBLY did.

You can't bring either station back on its laurels. It could be made profitable...but I question whether the present owners are willing to do what's necessary to make that truly happen.

 

[pioneer71]

KevinFoder

Thank you for your comments. You make a lot of solid points. I can agree that its only the established major market AM's that get the agency buys on a regular basis. I agree you need local news as part of your programming. If C.C. Dayton does not provide a local jock who is plugged into the community they will fail. If they don't have the dollars to commit to that they never should ave gone down this path.

On making money I can't comment on what you may have experienced or know about. I can only speak from experience. You can make a nice sum of money from local sports which not only incudes high school sports but also college and the pros. In addition, local news is important but news blocks would not be the way to go when you are trying to start up an AM opertion..

You need to have people with AM small market experience to make this work. You are right that if an FM listener wants their music they wll not turn over to the AM dial. However a local morning jock will really be a plus. I would think that there is an audience in Clark and Champaign County who would want and would support their own station. The best a station can do is around $750,000 .

I wish C.C. the best but I believe they will fail unless they reach out to someone with this kind of experience..

 

[stereolane]

WIZE, today, in 2011, is a station that could bill 200K a year at most. I still think 12K a month is more realistic. And yes, I have built, and / or operated 7 radio stations, including 2 that were off the air for a number of years.

As to the Georgian colonial studio building on Miracle Mile, I can tell you from experience: Clear Channel wins the slumlord award when it comes to deferred maintenance. And before someone in Cincinnati comes on here to argue, I can cite many examples from county assessor's offices around the country, with PICTURES. I've been trying to figure out this "deferred maintenance" justification for years, and can only guess it's some sort of accounting trick, to create something in the "loss" column. The WIZE building is built against the grade of the property. It's 2 stories in front, 1 in back, with a dramatic entry foyer. It's mostly concrete block. I imagine it needs a new roof. I recall it had some plumbing issues. New construction is pure crapola. I don't know where you would get a facility this large, or with better "bones"... A couple of engineers (read: I.T. guys) milling around a building saying "this can't be fixed" have no credibility with me. They've never even picked up a hammer.

I don't mean to be negative about everything. This can work, but the numbers have to make sense. As for the community sentiment that "WIZE and WBLY went off the air years ago..." that's probably correct.

 

[stereolane]

WIZE, today, in 2011, is a station that could bill 200K a year at most. I still think 12K a month is more realistic. And yes, I have built, and / or operated 7 radio stations, including 2 that were off the air for a number of years.

As to the Georgian colonial studio building on Miracle Mile, I can tell you from experience: Clear Channel wins the slumlord award when it comes to deferred maintenance. And before someone in Cincinnati comes on here to argue, I can cite many examples from county assessor's offices around the country, with PICTURES. I've been trying to figure out this "deferred maintenance" justification for years, and can only guess it's some sort of accounting trick, to create something in the "loss" column. The WIZE building is built against the grade of the property. It's 2 stories in front, 1 in back, with a dramatic entry foyer. It's mostly concrete block. I imagine it needs a new roof. I recall it had some plumbing issues. New construction is pure crapola. I don't know where you would get a facility this large, or with better "bones"... A couple of engineers (read: I.T. guys) milling around a building saying "this can't be fixed" have no credibility with me. They've never even picked up a hammer.

I don't mean to be negative about everything. This can work, but the numbers have to make sense. As for the community sentiment that "WIZE and WBLY went off the air years ago..." that's probably correct.

 

[Limp73]

As to the Georgian colonial studio building on Miracle Mile, I can tell you from experience: Clear Channel wins the slumlord award when it comes to deferred maintenance.


I don't mean to be negative about everything. This can work, but the numbers have to make sense. As for the community sentiment that "WIZE and WBLY went off the air years ago..." that's probably correct.

You hit the nail on the head. CC's slumlord attitude is atrocious! When WULM was located there there were chuckholes in the driveway that were marked off with orange safety cones.
The decorative front doors that once graced the building in the 70s and 80s were replaced with generic looking doors that look as if they were bought at Menards or Home Depot. It already was beginning to look like a slum.

WULM's predicessor WBLY was also there (thanks to Jerry Stagg's LMA) for several years. Afterwards when Urban Light purchased it,they fought an uphill battle trying to keep the bills paid,mind you they rented both the WIZE studio and the WDHT tower. (is it any wonder why they never made any money with it) When Radio Maria bought WULM it moved out of the WIZE building within a years time.

BTW:
A new online station started operating this week....though it also lacks local jocks (since its a Live 365 stream) it DOES air local announcements by Dale Grimm who operates the local online stream...and is comparatively speaking locally originating. Give Dale a holler and ask him if you would like to help out.

www.clarkcountry.com

 

[SFIND]

As to the Georgian colonial studio building on Miracle Mile, I can tell you from experience: Clear Channel wins the slumlord award when it comes to deferred maintenance.


I don't mean to be negative about everything. This can work, but the numbers have to make sense. As for the community sentiment that "WIZE and WBLY went off the air years ago..." that's probably correct.

You hit the nail on the head. CC's slumlord attitude is atrocious! When WULM was located there there were chuckholes in the driveway that were marked off with orange safety cones.
The decorative front doors that once graced the building in the 70s and 80s were replaced with generic looking doors that look as if they were bought at Menards or Home Depot. It already was beginning to look like a slum.

WULM's predicessor WBLY was also there (thanks to Jerry Stagg's LMA) for several years. Afterwards when Urban Light purchased it,they fought an uphill battle trying to keep the bills paid,mind you they rented both the WIZE studio and the WDHT tower. (is it any wonder why they never made any money with it) When Radio Maria bought WULM it moved out of the WIZE building within a years time.

BTW:
A new online station started operating this week....though it also lacks local jocks (since its a Live 365 stream) it DOES air local announcements by Dale Grimm who operates the local online stream...and is comparatively speaking locally originating. Give Dale a holler and ask him if you would like to help out.

www.clarkcountry.com

The correct website address is clarkcountry.net.

It is a nice effort by Dale, but no one is going to look at it as more local than WIZE. Just because the pre-recorded promos are done by a Springfield resident won't make a difference. With WIZE doing local HS sports and having name recognition of the Lee Rileys and Gary Littells, they'll in fact consider WIZE more local.

Hope Dale can make it work. Don't forget he's tied up with his newspapers too.

 

[Doodical]

Standing outside and looking in I have to agree that WIZE owned by CC will not do well. There is an AM station in the Dayton area thats not doing too bad in my opinion. Joe Mullins (son of the late Moon Mullins) is doing quite well with his 3 AM stations...WBZI, WKFI and WEDI and 100.3FM. He has taken his classic country and bluegrass brand and built a little empire. He has Bucks Braun in the mornings, Butch Brown, Chubby Howard and himself doing shows on the air. It may be a little old school, but it has a huge heart. Joe Mullins radio stations own Greene County, Clinton County and the Eaton area in a way that K99 could never reach an audiance.

The smartest thing CC could do is change Lite 99 to country and battle K99. It would take a little time to make your mark, but as a strong country station playing new and old country you could beat K99. The dj's on K99 are dry and have no life, but win because there is no competition. The morning show is a mess and sounds unconnected with it's listeners. I call it "Im A Star" syndrome. LOL, very sad.

 

[Limp73]

CC has tried a country format in Dayton several times(Buckeye Country later The Bull on 106.5 Greenville),and was unsuccessful in beating K-99.1 FM.

 

[pioneer71]

I may be mssing something but I wouldn't care what condition the old studios in Springfield are.

Why can't C.C. run all the programing from their studios in Dayton? In Dayton, they have everything to you to run the station from traffic, engineering, production and studios.

If I was Nick Gnau I would put Lee Riley in morning drive, have Rob Carpenter voice track Mid Days and get both out on the streets doing remotes and getting involved in the community.

WIZE will never beat K99 but they will make an impact in the market. This not a game where C.C. will beat K99 in ratings and revenue. However, they can make money if you have the right person calling the shots.

Doodicial is right. Joe Mullins is doing very well and he is doing it on the AM dial and could care less about his FM competition. That's the kind of thinking tha can make WIZE be a success.

 

[stereolane]

I may be mssing something but I wouldn't care what condition the old studios in Springfield are.

You're missing something alright...Great attitude to begin reconnecting with the community. Let's add more blight to an already blighted city. In fact, hey! Let's not even have an office or studio there! : I'm sure that the local Springfield banker would be delighted to drive to Dayton at $4.17 a gallon to record that new spot package in CC's shiny big city-slicker studios.

Why can't C.C. run all the programing from their studios in Dayton? In Dayton, they have everything to you to run the station from traffic, engineering, production and studios.

Because WIZE is NOT a Dayton radio station. Sales, and at least some production facilities need to be in Springfield for this to work... but it's a moot point anyway. The AE's in Dayton will never find the time to go over to Springfield.

If I was Nick Gnau I would put Lee Riley in morning drive, have Rob Carpenter voice track Mid Days and get both out on the streets doing remotes and getting involved in the community.

Interesting. You've already voluntarily disconnected yourself from "the community" above, yet now, you want the talent to get out and do remotes... Unless you're using the old POTS system, I can't see a remote being bounced from Springfield, to Dayton, then back to the transmitter in Springfield without it sounding like crap. I still believe in the MARTI for remotes.

WIZE will never beat K99 but they will make an impact in the market. This not a game where C.C. will beat K99 in ratings and revenue. However, they can make money if you have the right person calling the shots.

No they won't... No it isn't... and one or two people who may or may not be from Springfield "mailing it in" from Dayton will never make an impact.

 

[alans613]

CC/Dayton's studios aren't exactly "Bright and Shiny" if you ask me. I've been there on a few occasions and they are far from it. Every time someone walks on the floor above it creaks. The spiral staircase is kind of neat, though.
Cox/Dayton probably has the best studios since they were just built. Main Line/Dayton's studios aren't too bad. That building has been there and first housed WING-AM in 1976.

 

[techie2]

Interesting. You've already voluntarily disconnected yourself from "the community" above, yet now, you want the talent to get out and do remotes... Unless you're using the old POTS system, I can't see a remote being bounced from Springfield, to Dayton, then back to the transmitter in Springfield without it sounding like crap. I still believe in the MARTI for remotes.

In this day and age, you don't need a Marti anymore. A Comrex and a 3G card can get a great sounding remote from anywhere that cell service is available. Or one can prerecord the breaks and send them in from a laptop.

That said, CC used to have a Marti receiver on the WIZE tower that was backhauled to Dayton to use for any remotes from Springfield on their stations.

 

[stereolane]

Interesting. You've already voluntarily disconnected yourself from "the community" above, yet now, you want the talent to get out and do remotes... Unless you're using the old POTS system, I can't see a remote being bounced from Springfield, to Dayton, then back to the transmitter in Springfield without it sounding like crap. I still believe in the MARTI for remotes.

In this day and age, you don't need a Marti anymore. A Comrex and a 3G card can get a great sounding remote from anywhere that cell service is available. Or one can prerecord the breaks and send them in from a laptop.

That said, CC used to have a Marti receiver on the WIZE tower that was backhauled to Dayton to use for any remotes from Springfield on their stations.

That's true, and I will admit to being "old school". But honestly, I have heard some scratchy sounding remotes (one on my own station) where cell service was relied upon. Not to be sarcastic, but if the breaks are prerecorded, then why are we there LIVE?

Is the Marti receiver on the WIZE tower a licensed "inter-city relay"? Back in the day, Randy Michaels liked to install those wherever there happened to be a terrain issue.

 

[techie2]

Interesting. You've already voluntarily disconnected yourself from "the community" above, yet now, you want the talent to get out and do remotes... Unless you're using the old POTS system, I can't see a remote being bounced from Springfield, to Dayton, then back to the transmitter in Springfield without it sounding like crap. I still believe in the MARTI for remotes.

In this day and age, you don't need a Marti anymore. A Comrex and a 3G card can get a great sounding remote from anywhere that cell service is available. Or one can prerecord the breaks and send them in from a laptop.

That said, CC used to have a Marti receiver on the WIZE tower that was backhauled to Dayton to use for any remotes from Springfield on their stations.

That's true, and I will admit to being "old school". But honestly, I have heard some scratchy sounding remotes (one on my own station) where cell service was relied upon. Not to be sarcastic, but if the breaks are prerecorded, then why are we there LIVE?

Is the Marti receiver on the WIZE tower a licensed "inter-city relay"? Back in the day, Randy Michaels liked to install those wherever there happened to be a terrain issue.

Cell remotes usually sound horrible. I hate using them and only will do sports that way if it's a last resort. The vocoders in the cell phones do not handle crowd noise well at all. They are OK for breaking news or a quick hit if there's no time to get equipment there or just a very short drop-in. Doing an IP remote over 3G data is a different animal and can sound really good as long as the cell network isn't overloaded and the 3G aircard is functioning properly. Otherwise, dropouts can result.

There's no STL or ICR license associated with WIZE. That's a long microwave shot anyway, so it's likely fed via T1, which would make for a two-way connection that one could backhaul STL-quality audio over. There's no license needed for a Marti receiver, the license is associated with the transmitter and is defined as "mobile" operating within some defined radius from a control point.

 

[nmoore6676]

Standing outside and looking in I have to agree that WIZE owned by CC will not do well. There is an AM station in the Dayton area thats not doing too bad in my opinion. Joe Mullins (son of the late Moon Mullins) is doing quite well with his 3 AM stations...WBZI, WKFI and WEDI and 100.3FM. He has taken his classic country and bluegrass brand and built a little empire. He has Bucks Braun in the mornings, Butch Brown, Chubby Howard and himself doing shows on the air. It may be a little old school, but it has a huge heart. Joe Mullins radio stations own Greene County, Clinton County and the Eaton area in a way that K99 could never reach an audiance.

The smartest thing CC could do is change Lite 99 to country and battle K99. It would take a little time to make your mark, but as a strong country station playing new and old country you could beat K99. The dj's on K99 are dry and have no life, but win because there is no competition. The morning show is a mess and sounds unconnected with it's listeners. I call it "Im A Star" syndrome. LOL, very sad.

I don't think Butch Brown is doing shows for WBZI_WEDI_WKFI anymore. I do occasionally hear him doing commercials so he is still somewhat associated. But Joe Mullins was right on to get an FM translator on the air. I would suppose that a properly engineered AM station could still sound good and especially for oldies and Classic Country but did WIZE turn of the I-Hash?

If the IBOC is still on it would sound like crap for any kind of music and I doubt that Springfield is loaded with HD receivers. Here where I live now one AM station at 1480 is doing oldies and it doesn't sound bad but they have no IBOC, in fact the nearest to me may well be Des Moines where our favorite broadcast slum lord, CC, is also present. In the way old times of my high school days at Northwestern WBLY and WBLY-FM did a lot of simulcasting and you could switch back and forth and the sound was not that much different. Back then they only had Gates limiters probably in both feeds. I recall seeing one Level-Devil in the rack at the old studio in the Chamber of Commerce Building.

 

[KevinFodor]

Standing outside and looking in I have to agree that WIZE owned by CC will not do well. There is an AM station in the Dayton area thats not doing too bad in my opinion. Joe Mullins (son of the late Moon Mullins) is doing quite well with his 3 AM stations...WBZI, WKFI and WEDI and 100.3FM. He has taken his classic country and bluegrass brand and built a little empire. He has Bucks Braun in the mornings, Butch Brown, Chubby Howard and himself doing shows on the air. It may be a little old school, but it has a huge heart. Joe Mullins radio stations own Greene County, Clinton County and the Eaton area in a way that K99 could never reach an audiance.

The smartest thing CC could do is change Lite 99 to country and battle K99. It would take a little time to make your mark, but as a strong country station playing new and old country you could beat K99. The dj's on K99 are dry and have no life, but win because there is no competition. The morning show is a mess and sounds unconnected with it's listeners. I call it "Im A Star" syndrome. LOL, very sad.

Doodical:

Your entitled to your opinion, but your rhetoric doesn't meet reality. You obviously have not listened to K-99.1 anytime in the recent past.

The DJ's are now uptempo, adding their abilities to be personable over the ramps of songs. The music is all young country with a few "familiar" favorites and the station is now playing more recent and current product than it ever has.

You're also dead wrong about the morning show...it connects very well.. If it didn't, it wouldn't have been #1 in Dayton in the last book (with Kiss Country still on the air), and #1 Clark County. Mornings, 25-54, in Clark County , K-99.1 was #1...with Kiss Country tied for 9th.
K-99.1 had almost double the cume of Kiss in Clark County as well.

Anyone who actually listens knows this. Anyone who knows radio programming knows a bad product will produce minimal ratings (or will obviously under perform the market) even if it's the only game in town. That might make the station do OK so-to-speak, but a bad or inferior product never makes a strong #1 radio station, regardless of market competition or promotion.

It's only people who don't know radio programming who don't understand it.

Oh yeah...one more thing: In recent PPM numbers from Cincinnati, among adult women, I believe...K-99.1 came in 8th...beating at least one of the Cincy country stations. If K's product was as bad as you suggest, it sure as heck wouldn't do that.

 

[KevinFodor]

I doubt an FM translator is going to happen...but maybe a local from Springfield may want to consider starting up a sports webcasting service..similar to Jack Kramer's Scores Broadcast
(see other WIZE posts.)

www.scoersbroadcast.com

WMVR "Hits 105 5" farmed out its high school coverage to this local firm starting about a year or so ago. Kramer used to be sports director at Hits before striking out on his own. It also has an archive of aired games.

The area actually already has a couple of different "stations" trying to do that.

The Springfield Paper's (the weekly one) parent company Penda Publishing has a website for their sports dept. on www.pendasports.com. They have a radio stream they've used a little bit and have archived games. From what I hear it was basically from the prodding of their sports writers as to why they did it. And they were doing it before KISS left.

That whole company is dabbling into a bunch of stuff and has a TV wing (www.htnchannel.com) that I guess has actually done well. The content isn't going to win any awards but their existence alone shows people will buy ads/support simply for being there and putting out a product.

I guess they also submitted for an FCC license and want to do a radio station as well. However, the company's run by a couple of Evangelicals, so it'd probably be a Christian station, and with Cedarville's WCDR and WEEC right by, the success of that's probably questionable.

Wittenberg's student station also did some HS sports this year as an outreach attempt. I think a former WULMer Jim Scoby is footing the bill himself to do it and buying time. They have an internet stream on WUSO's site and on Wittenberg's athletics website.

As far as WIZE goes, Scott Leo, a former WULMer, is employed by Clear Channel. He worked at WULM under Marty Bannister and knows that the area has some cash for HS sports. I'm sure they will do some (they have a press release on www.wizeam.com stating as much).

Since I happen to also run a Live 365 station, and since you are now in the position of attempting to sell advertising on your stream, it might be a good idea to publish here, or to your potential advertisers at any rate, some of your listening statistics.

Now, I know Live 365's stats can't show the actual number of listeners, but you can display total listening hours, number of streams opened, average time spent streaming and the geographical location of your audience. Many Live 365 stations are sampled not only by local area listeners, but also places around the country and world. It's all there under "stats" on your pull down menu when you log in to your station.

Over the air radio has ratings to show potential advertisers, providing stats on listening gives you something more credible than to simply say, "we're local".