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WJZA and WTDA

> According to the FCC today, they are allowing the move of
> WJZA from Lancaster to Pickerington, and will not allow WTDA
> to move their tower to a new location due to short spacing
> with WPAY-FM in Portsmouth (a Class C). All the info is
> here...
>
http:> //hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-337A1.pdf
>

It doesn't look like it's moving far. Perhaps 8 or 9 miles northwest?
Trick_Magnet
 
> According to the FCC today, they are allowing the move of
> WJZA from Lancaster to Pickerington, and will not allow WTDA
> to move their tower to a new location due to short spacing
> with WPAY-FM in Portsmouth (a Class C). All the info is
> here...
>
http:> //hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-337A1.pdf
>

Columbusradio or anyone with a good grasp of these things: Does this mean WTDA has exhausted all its option for signal upgrade, short of somehow arranging to move from 103.9? <P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
> According to the FCC today, they are allowing the move of
> WJZA from Lancaster to Pickerington, and will not allow WTDA
> to move their tower to a new location due to short spacing
> with WPAY-FM in Portsmouth (a Class C). All the info is
> here...
>
http:> //hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-337A1.pdf
>
Ted just got kicked in the nuts by the FCC. We all know if this was a Clear Channel request it would have been granted.<P ID="signature">______________
Chris
202.FM</P>
 
> >
> Ted just got kicked in the nuts by the FCC. We all know if
> this was a Clear Channel request it would have been granted.
>

Too bad WJZA is not a CC station, it's a Saga station...the same ones that own Sunny 95. The explaination for WTDA is correct. WPAY is a 100kW Class C (one of two) station at 104.1, and we all know WTDA is at 103.9. That is called short spacing. If North American owned WPAY, they could probably get away with the move since they will be interfering their own station (like WBWR at 105.7 and WCHO at 105.5 both owned by Clear Channel)
 
> > According to the FCC today, they are allowing the move of
> > WJZA from Lancaster to Pickerington, and will not allow
> WTDA
> > to move their tower to a new location due to short spacing
>
> > with WPAY-FM in Portsmouth (a Class C). All the info is
> > here...
> >
> http:>
> //hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-337A1.pdf
>
> >
> Ted just got kicked in the nuts by the FCC. We all know if
> this was a Clear Channel request it would have been granted.
>

True. Is it because of CC's influence and connections, or because they can afford better FCC lawyers? Or both?<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
Here's the Scoop...

No, it's not a cc conspiracy, as suggested below. WTDA is Nortah American, WJZA Saga broadcasting.

About two or three years ago, now, the tower for WPAY-FM fell in an ice storm.
WPAY-FM is a Class C station because the tower is located in Kentucky (Class C territory) even though Portsmouth (and the rest of Ohio) is Class B territory.
Class B stations can operate with a maximum of 50 kw. at 150 meters above average terrain; Class C stations at 100 kw at 600 meters AHAAT.

A few years ago, the FCC created a new intermediate Class C-0 for Class C stations that could not operate (or didn't want to operate) at the full class C
The minimum distance separations from a CO station to other stations is less than for a Class C. And those other stations can ask the FCC to reclassify a Class C station to a Class C-0 if it's power/antnenna height combination doesn't match the minimum set for a Class C.

The FAA refused to allow WPAY rebuild their tower to its original height. WPAY decided to move further south & build a new tower to remain a full Class C station. This created an opening for WTDA to move south (closer to Columbus).
Then PAY changed their minds, and decided to rebuild close to their old site at South Shore, KY (just across the Ohio from Portsmouth). TDA jumped up and down and said that PAY must be reclassified as a Class C-0 channel, allowing them to still move south. In the meantime, WJZA requested the move to Pickerington.

What the FCC did here is to say: 1. TDA--your request for a move based on reclassifying PAY is a new request, and we have the WJZA request. 2. You would be too close to WJZA if we approved both requests, we are going to consider your changed request as a counterproposal to what JZA wants 3. You can't move unless we re-classify PAY, we don't believe we have to do that, so your requst fails.
4. Since you can't move, we don't have to worry about you and can move JZA to Pickerington.

It is likely that this is the end of efforts to move 103.9 further south. They can't move off their channel because nothing will fit.
 
> > According to the FCC today, they are allowing the move of
> > WJZA from Lancaster to Pickerington, and will not allow
> WTDA
> > to move their tower to a new location due to short spacing
>
> > with WPAY-FM in Portsmouth (a Class C). All the info is
> > here...
> >
> http:>
> //hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-06-337A1.pdf
>
> >
> Ted just got kicked in the nuts by the FCC. We all know if
> this was a Clear Channel request it would have been granted.
>
That's a load of crap. CC is the biggest in the industry and - so - is the obvious target. Goto work for Clear Channel in a decent sized market and I guarantee you that your gripes will be allayed. Mine were.
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

> No, it's not a cc conspiracy, as suggested below. WTDA is
> Nortah American, WJZA Saga broadcasting.
>
> About two or three years ago, now, the tower for WPAY-FM
> fell in an ice storm.
> WPAY-FM is a Class C station because the tower is located in
> Kentucky (Class C territory) even though Portsmouth (and the
> rest of Ohio) is Class B territory.
> Class B stations can operate with a maximum of 50 kw. at 150
> meters above average terrain; Class C stations at 100 kw at
> 600 meters AHAAT.
>
> A few years ago, the FCC created a new intermediate Class
> C-0 for Class C stations that could not operate (or didn't
> want to operate) at the full class C
> The minimum distance separations from a CO station to other
> stations is less than for a Class C. And those other
> stations can ask the FCC to reclassify a Class C station to
> a Class C-0 if it's power/antnenna height combination
> doesn't match the minimum set for a Class C.
>
> The FAA refused to allow WPAY rebuild their tower to its
> original height. WPAY decided to move further south & build
> a new tower to remain a full Class C station. This created
> an opening for WTDA to move south (closer to Columbus).
> Then PAY changed their minds, and decided to rebuild close
> to their old site at South Shore, KY (just across the Ohio
> from Portsmouth). TDA jumped up and down and said that PAY
> must be reclassified as a Class C-0 channel, allowing them
> to still move south. In the meantime, WJZA requested the
> move to Pickerington.
>
> What the FCC did here is to say: 1. TDA--your request for a
> move based on reclassifying PAY is a new request, and we
> have the WJZA request. 2. You would be too close to WJZA if
> we approved both requests, we are going to consider your
> changed request as a counterproposal to what JZA wants 3.
> You can't move unless we re-classify PAY, we don't believe
> we have to do that, so your requst fails.
> 4. Since you can't move, we don't have to worry about you
> and can move JZA to Pickerington.
>
> It is likely that this is the end of efforts to move 103.9
> further south. They can't move off their channel because
> nothing will fit.
>


I'm aware of the WPAY history.<P ID="signature">______________
Chris
202.FM</P>
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

Thanks for the detailed explanation a few posts up, tpt. Sure helps demystify this (to me) unfortunate convergence of events.

But I'm not sure I fully understand what you're referring to in the last sentence ("They can't move off their channel because nothing will fit"). Maybe I'm being a little dense here, but I can think of a couple different ways to interpret that statement. What exactly did you mean?
<P ID="signature">______________
Nu_Roo_2 formerly Nu__Roo formerly Nu_Roo</P>
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

>
> But I'm not sure I fully understand what you're referring to
> in the last sentence ("They can't move off their channel
> because nothing will fit"). Maybe I'm being a little dense
> here, but I can think of a couple different ways to
> interpret that statement. What exactly did you mean?
>

I think he is refering to the fact that there are no more frequencies available in the Columbus market that has decent power and coverage. CC is making one available by moving some of their own stations around to move in WMRN to Dublin with a frequency change. WTDA can't do that since the company only owns 3 stations, all being in Columbus.
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

> > What about 98.5?

> > But I'm not sure I fully understand what you're referring
> to
> > in the last sentence ("They can't move off their channel
> > because nothing will fit"). Maybe I'm being a little
> dense
> > here, but I can think of a couple different ways to
> > interpret that statement. What exactly did you mean?
> >
>
> I think he is refering to the fact that there are no more
> frequencies available in the Columbus market that has decent
> power and coverage. CC is making one available by moving
> some of their own stations around to move in WMRN to Dublin
> with a frequency change. WTDA can't do that since the
> company only owns 3 stations, all being in Columbus.
>
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

> > > What about 98.5?
>

With 98.5 in both Cleveland and Cincinnati, it may not be worth it to North American Broadcasting, but it would work for someone like Otterbein, which would make WOBN a good contender in this town.
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

> > > > What about 98.5?
> >
>
> With 98.5 in both Cleveland and Cincinnati, it may not be
> worth it to North American Broadcasting, but it would work
> for someone like Otterbein, which would make WOBN a good
> contender in this town.
>

Second adjacent to 98.9, so 98.5 can't be used.
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

> > > > > What about 98.5?
> > >
> >
> > With 98.5 in both Cleveland and Cincinnati, it may not be
> > worth it to North American Broadcasting, but it would work
>
> > for someone like Otterbein, which would make WOBN a good
> > contender in this town.
> >
>
> Second adjacent to 98.9, so 98.5 can't be used.
>
I could be wrong. But I thought a second adjacent could be used, just not an adjacent. 103.9 (to 103.7 or 104.1) is already surrounded by second adjacents 103.5 and 104.3 in close geographic proximity nonetheless. I would think it might be possible to slide in a class A licenced to Columbuus or Westerville as a non-directional signal. Put it on 1 Nationwide, call it a Westerville station, good to go just like 105.7 FM.

On another note, why is WXEG 103.9 Dayton/Beavercreek seem unaffected by WPAY 104.1? Since there is a 103.9 so close, you would also think you could sneak a class A on 98.5 here despite one being in Cinci and Cleveland?
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

Third adjacent to WNCI makes this impossible. Unless it might be a LPFM situation but certainly not with any kind of commercial license.

To be co-located, stations must be four channels apart. Think 96.3-97.1-97.9

Plus, there is the aforementioned 98.9 second adjacent. And the Class A's on 98.3 (Logan and Fredericktown) and 98.7 (Crestline) first-adjacents must be added into the mileage equations.


>
> On another note, why is WXEG 103.9 Dayton/Beavercreek seem
> unaffected by WPAY 104.1? Since there is a 103.9 so close,
> you would also think you could sneak a class A on 98.5 here
> despite one being in Cinci and Cleveland?
>
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

If another allotment was possible in Columbus, the FCC Would already have had it on the books and auctioned it off to the highest bidder, unforutally there is not enough space "rules wise" in Columbus for another FM.

--Matt
<P ID="signature">______________
Program Director/Music Director
X Music Online
The X
Today's Best Music
http://www.xmusiconline.com/</P>
 
Re: Here's the Scoop...

It has been postulated:
> It is likely that this is the end of efforts to move 103.9
> further south. They can't move off their channel because
> nothing will fit.
>

Few can discern the true meanings underlying much of the legal strategy in FCC filings.

Much of the "scoop" shared by tpt and others is correct. Some is not.

Background info and corrections: WPAY, Portsmouth, was only built to the absolute class minimums of 100 KW and 300 meters. But, under the old FCC rule, WTDA had to treat WPAY as though it were on a 2000 foot stick even though WPAY's actual protected contour is many miles south of Columbus. By applying for a transmitter improvement under the revised rule, WTDA triggered an FCC order that gave WPAY three years to build a full Class C facility or be downgraded to C0 and allow WTDA to "use" the wasted spectrum that Portsmouth is hogging. There are lots of these under-built Class C's around the country. That's why the FCC changed the rules. Either the Class C serves the coverage area it's licensed to cover or someone else can. Most everyone knows that WTDA's coverage to the south is weak. North American needs a coverage improvement and would serve many thousands more people by allowing it to use the spectrum locked up by WPAY. This process occurred, by the way, before WPAY's tower fell down two years ago, now. Since then, it's been operating under STA (special temporary authority) at low power from a couple hundred feet of steel they resurrected from the crash.

Seems like everyone involved (including the FCC)is scratching heads on this. The WPAY folks have been dragging their feet and seem to be employing delaying tactics with multiple amendments to their applications. If a Class C signal is so important to them, you'd think they'd want to get on with it rather than operate with a comparatively flea-power signal. But, the clock is running out on them as the three-year time period ends in September. While anything is possible, the Commission has commented about the potential of old Class C's manipulating the system and has advised that it will not extend the upgrade time period.

This final piece of info: As things stand today, WTDA will get its coverage upgrade since WPAY can't build a 450 meter tower at its old site but must move several kilometers south which clears the short-space problem between them. You can bet the WJZA entanglement was an attempt to keep the proposed new WJZA transmitter site near Pataskala from creating a short-spacing problem with wherever it is that WTDA would like to move its transmitter site which is undoubtedly in central Franklin County. I'm familiar with the chief engineer, consulting engineer and attorney for North American. Believe me, they know exactly what they're doing and will make the most of the situation. There may be an appeal in the works on this. They have thirty days to file.
 
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