WKLU

[hipporadio]

Don't get TOO excited about that coverage area - word from a buddy in a certain 'gov't agency' has it the KLU signal is covering a little more than license allows...

INTERESTING ??? I received them clearly along I-70 to the Henry/Wayne County line... WELL-BEYOND similar-class 93.9, 96.3, 100.9, and 106.7 from the Indy area. WKLU's signal was a “barnburner” by Class A standards, and only met termination at that location due to co-channel, and more-powerful, WKRQ Cincy!

 

[radioho]

WKLU has sounded like they were operating with more power than they are licensed to for many months. It seems no competitors have taken any interest in tipping off the FCC. Or maybe the FCC just doesn't care about their own rules anymore.

To the contrary. There have been several complaints, and the 'readings' have already been started. From word I have, there is quite a bit of 'evidence' already accumulated. Why he stays at that power is beyond me. Or why anyone would think you could CONTINUE violating is even more baffling.

 

[pot-up-the-bird]

Hey Ho:
Been a long time! While this bird has been visiting friends & family, couldn't help but notice Oasis must have a pirate for an engineer. Geez, you can hear him from Chicago to Louisville. Also, noticed on the way to Chicago the rinky dinky 3,000 watt Q-mix was reaching near Chicago too. How can that be? Perhaps Keith & Russ have the same engineer? Hope Keith & Russ have a remote control to turn down the power on the way to the tower site with the F.C.C.!!!!! Merry X-mas. HO HO HO!!!!

 

[radiowannab]

Its only cheating if you get caught. Russ pick my Top 10 and Ill keep quiet. According to some on here Old Skool is no stranger to greasing a few palms to get his way. If its true count me in on that group. My silence can be bought ;D

 

[hipporadio]

“Baffling” and downright ------ [you fill in the blanks] – especially given the situation that WKLU is a high-value facility in a large and very-competitive market where many eyes are peeking and test instruments abound. I learned long-ago that “over-power” accusations can be as common as a bully in grade-school. I know this – because I’ve made AND suffered them myself ...So I ask under the presumption that one is compliant until caught and proven guilty: Might WKLU innocently-have an exceptional signal from a well-optimized and recently-built facility?

Possibly, this discourse would benefit from a competent FM engineer’s experience [I am NOT one]. I become a bit inquisitive when I consider the following observation [but likely-lacking a fully-scientific foundation]: Similar-class WTLC-FM on 106.7 from its Riley Tower perch several miles eastward from WKLU’s Eagle Creek location, “meets its Maker” in far-west Henry County—and with NO assistance from co/adjacent-channel interference. Despite the omnipresence of Class B co-channel WKRQ on 101.9 in Cincinnati, the WKLU signal outmarches that of WTLC-FM by nearly 20-miles on an eastward trek along I-70... Tack-on the additional 5 [or-so]-miles that separate Riley Towers from Eagle Creek, and that adds up to at least a TWENTY-FIVE-MILE ADVANTAGE for WKLU

This goes WELL-BEYOND the typical difference between a Class A that’s “lucky” and one that is less-so! In the interest of furthering this discussion while preserving anonymity [and “innocence”], let’s just say a certain operator with a licensed ERP of 4.7kw into 2 bays, once purchased a new Harris FM transmitter with a TPO of 7kw [understandable and justifiable given the CP]. For no other reason than to make sure he was getting his money’s-worth, that operator fired-up his shiny new rig at 7kw [“temporarily” of course ;D]... During this two-day transmitter “stress test” at 2.3kw ABOVE licensed power, said operator observed a negligible gain in geographic coverage—about 2-3 miles along an interstate highway. Power was quickly reduced, and the station remained compliant for the utter-reason that it had very-little to gain at the possible expense of just an infraction that the FCC may only consider “misdemeanor” in nature.

So comes the $168,000.00 question [that figure is a 17-year-old NAL slapped-on a 3kw Class A running their 10kw rig into 4-bays for over two years—an act considered by the FCC to be clearly premeditated and “felonious”]... HOW MANY MORE watts would WKLU HAVE to crank-out to gain 20-25 miles down an interstate? ...I’d assume that transmitter would sport such a flagrant excess that when discovered—would invite a near-indefensible charge of premeditation and correspondingly-large NAL—IF their lucky. In the alleged situation, could they be facing a far-more drastic action... License revocation? If so, YES—“baffling” and DOWNRIGHT STUPID!

 

[radiowannab]

Dateline, 60 Minutes, Meet the Press, Rafael Sanchez...where are you? Indy radio listeners need answers.

 

[Rowdy1234]

“Baffling” and downright ------ [you fill in the blanks] – especially given the situation that WKLU is a high-value facility in a large and very-competitive market where many eyes are peeking and test instruments abound. I learned long-ago that “over-power” accusations can be as common as a bully in grade-school. I know this – because I’ve made AND suffered them myself ...So I ask under the presumption that one is compliant until caught and proven guilty: Might WKLU innocently-have an exceptional signal from a well-optimized and recently-built facility?

Possibly, this discourse would benefit from a competent FM engineer’s experience [I am NOT one]. I become a bit inquisitive when I consider the following observation [but likely-lacking a fully-scientific foundation]: Similar-class WTLC-FM on 106.7 from its Riley Tower perch several miles eastward from WKLU’s Eagle Creek location, “meets its Maker” in far-west Henry County—and with NO assistance from co/adjacent-channel interference. Despite the omnipresence of Class B co-channel WKRQ on 101.9 in Cincinnati, the WKLU signal outmarches that of WTLC-FM by nearly 20-miles on an eastward trek along I-70... Tack-on the additional 5 [or-so]-miles that separate Riley Towers from Eagle Creek, and that adds up to at least a TWENTY-FIVE-MILE ADVANTAGE for WKLU

This goes WELL-BEYOND the typical difference between a Class A that’s “lucky” and one that is less-so! In the interest of furthering this discussion while preserving anonymity [and “innocence”], let’s just say a certain operator with a licensed ERP of 4.7kw into 2 bays, once purchased a new Harris FM transmitter with a TPO of 7kw [understandable and justifiable given the CP]. For no other reason than to make sure he was getting his money’s-worth, that operator fired-up his shiny new rig at 7kw [“temporarily” of course ;D]... During this two-day transmitter “stress test” at 2.3kw ABOVE licensed power, said operator observed a negligible gain in geographic coverage—about 2-3 miles along an interstate highway. Power was quickly reduced, and the station remained compliant for the utter-reason that it had very-little to gain at the possible expense of just an infraction that the FCC may only consider “misdemeanor” in nature.

So comes the $168,000.00 question [that figure is a 17-year-old NAL slapped-on a 3kw Class A running their 10kw rig into 4-bays for over two years—an act considered by the FCC to be clearly premeditated and “felonious”]... HOW MANY MORE watts would WKLU HAVE to crank-out to gain 20-25 miles down an interstate? ...I’d assume that transmitter would sport such a flagrant excess that when discovered—would invite a near-indefensible charge of premeditation and correspondingly-large NAL—IF their lucky. In the alleged situation, could they be facing a far-more drastic action... License revocation? If so, YES—“baffling” and DOWNRIGHT STUPID!

I thought WKLU was supposed to be nulled to the east to protect WURK in Elwood and WKRQ in Cincinnati?

You could even factor WEDJ into this class A equation. On my radio under normal atmospheric conditions, I can get this station to the hill just west of the New Castle exit on I-70 before I get same channel interference from WKFS Milford/Cincinnati, which is a class B1 facility. Despite the fact that WEDJ transmits the farthest west, the other stations you mentioned also fades away considerably (WTLC-FM) and get hammered by adjacent channel interference (WHHH) at this point. WKLU is the exception since it gets about another 5 miles before it starts duking it out with WKRQ (a class B facility) in Cincinnati around the Wayne/Henry County line. Could running a new transmitter have anything to do with how solid the station's signal is right now?

Up I-65, all of the Indy class As are gone by the time you get to Lafayette. The only exception is WEDJ, which comes in very weak. All of the others make it to just south of Lafayette with the exception of WTLC-FM, which gets hammered off the frequency in Lebanon by WGLM in West Lafayette and WHHH which gets hit with adjacent channel interference around the Frankfort exit by WAZY-FM in Lafayette.

 

[BobOnTheJob]

A couple of thoughts...

* WKLU and WEDJ are both outside of I-465 to the west...a terrain favored area. WTLC and WHHH are near the middle of Indy...down in the bowl. There's a reason WNAP 93.1 left that bowl back around 1980 for the more terrain favored area outside of I-465. Based on location/height above their 328' maximum HAAT before power reduction begins, it should come as no surprise that WKLU and WEDJ have better signals than WHHH and WTLC. WHHH is also limited by their 3kw signal vs the 6KW class of WKLU, WEDJ and WTLC. While I can't vouch for the other two, I've had my hands in the WEDJ transmitter...5KW TPO from a 5KW transmitter through about 500' of 1 5/8" line into a 1 bay circular antenna atop a 500' or so tower. Looked legal to me.

* I've lost count of the number of accusations of over powered operations...but I have never lost count of the number of those accusations that were actually verified...zero. Verifying overpower operations doesn't require field strength meters...just a friend in the electric company. For example, look at a 4 bay antenna with a power gain of 2. With a 6KW ERP and 350' of feedline, perhaps 4KW (off hand guess) would be required. Now let's say a station decided it wanted another 25 miles of coverage. Again, from memory in very round numbers, a Class A will provided a 60db signal at 15 or so miles. A Class B will do about double that. So gaining 15 miles requires better than 8 times the power and 1.5 times the height. Obviously, the height can't be changed without being noticed, so again, in very round educated guess numbers, let's change the 50KW ERP to 100KW to make up for the inability to gain the added height. And this is all to add 15 miles to the coverage area. We need 20-25...so, let's again double our 100KW to 200KW to get in the ball park. So let's see, 200KW with a power gain of 2 and an 85% feedline efficiency puts us in the range of 118KW transmitter output power. Oops...they don't make an FM transmitter that big. Oops...the IBOC transmitter. Imagine the look on the transmitter manufacturer's face when they order a 10KW IBOC transmitter (which, by the way, fades out around Greenwood--exactly where you'd expect it to). Oops...1 5/8" line won't hold 118KW...obviously, 6" feedline needs to be installed. Oops...the 4 bay antenna won't handle 100KW...as you can see, the concept of a class A station "cheating" it's way to an extra 20-25 miles is absurd.

If you really suspect overpower operation, calculate the expected AC power consumption (in this case, 8KW should cover the transmitter, tower lights & rack of support equipment). Find someone who'll share the electric bill data for the suspected site. When you find that it's very close to correct (and it very likely will be), remember that exercise the next time you suspect that a great signal is anything more than a very well engineered facility who someone spent the money on to do it right.

 

[hipporadio]

Dateline, 60 Minutes, Meet the Press, Rafael Sanchez...where are you? Indy radio listeners need answers.

Well I’ll take a stab at trying to give you one. Please understand though, that [1]—I’m ONLY a-bit beyond “lay” in my engineering experience; and [2]—highly-technical explanations are difficult to keep simple [and understandable to other “lay” readers] in a forum such as this!

There are NO shortage of examples of a usually-demure Class A FM station having “very long legs” [especially in the pre Docket 80-90 era]. The prominent reason is the highly-logarithmic nature of FM power/distance ratios... Simply-put—a 50kw FM DOES NOT enjoy FIVE-TIMES the coverage of a 10kw FM given an identical topographic paradigm. Class As that somehow achieve “Super-A” status generally-enjoy the following circumstances: [1] A very-well designed and “optimized” facility; [2] topographic assistance from glacial activity that preceded that station’s construction BY CENTURIES; and [3] a “clean assignment”—lacking permissible [and codified] “interference” from co/adjacent-channel stations. In a former life, I built one of those with the assistance of a well-regarded Washington P.E. It literally morphed from the WORST imaginable “A” to the VERY-BEST! While its assignment was FAR from “clean” in all directions – in the two that were—its coverage was near mind-boggling—yet FULLY-LEGAL! Imagine an “A” that was “listenable” [by “Radio Geek” standards] for twenty-minutes along an interstate highway over EIGHTY-MILES from its transmitter site! There was a fully-plausible technical explanation, but required a stack of topo maps to demonstrate.

In many respects, what we are pondering in deference to the WKLU coverage has much in common with the former situation. I vividly recall WKLU’s morph in May 2005; and given the presumption of its initial legality—it was an outstanding upgrade. IIRC, WKLU DOES NOT employ a directional antenna, and certainly WOULD NOT null its signal [over Indianapolis proper] to the east... It signed an “interference agreement” with WURK, and BOTH hi-tailed themselves into that “creative compliance” known as “Section 73.215”. I have NO LACK of experience with that “critter of codification”, since [by former precedent] I helped author at the FCC its application in the “non-Grandfathered commercial FM band” nearly two-decades ago! What a mess that turned-out to become, and should serve as fair-warning: Be very-careful what you ask-for at the FCC... You’ll likely have to later-accept plenty of unintended consequences! Impudent HD coverage, possibly? How delightfully ironic! ;D

Also relevant to this issue is a far-more simple NON-TECHNICAL analogy... I understand that many here enjoy Russ’ penchant to “hotline” overnight operators with instructions on how the mouth “101.9” two-times in a row; his susceptibility to unfortunate promotions; and the possibility that he may have overloaded his mind on Disco thirty-years ago... BUT, I highly-doubt that Mr. Oasis would dream of risking his high-value license and ultimate financial fortune by wheeling-in and attempting to camouflage the 20kw rig necessary to achieve the coverge he now enjoys – and under the conditions that now invite such scrutiny. Seriously, an FCC field inspector need-only witness such a rig [even operating LEGALLY] within WKLU’s transmitter building – and the questions would fly... He’d have A LOT of explaining to do, and the RISK and CERTAIN DOWNSIDE would NOT warrant such conduct!

 

[pot-up-the-bird]

On my way to a major market station over the summer, I attributed picking up KLU to almost the border of KY to termperature inversion. When it happened again a couple of days ago, I was baffled too. Then on my way to Chicago, I could pick up KLU & Q-mix almost to the border again. The bird is truly baffled now. I no longer attribute this to temperature inversion. The bird is singing alleged piracy. Hmmmmm? I can think of a couple of stocking stuffers from Santa for our bold friends, Keith & Russ, remote controls for their transmitters in the case of a possible F.C.C. inspection. Something smells fishy at the transmitter sites? You guys have a real good engineer!!!!

 

[IndyDan]

There's a reason WNAP 93.1 left that bowl back around 1980 for the more terrain favored area

And it always amazed me that WNAP had the great signal that it did when they were on the Merchants building downtown.
I can remember hearing them several miles into Illinois on I-70 back in those days.
When I worked at Danville, they always said that one of their coverage problems in Indy was the fact that they were shooting over the "bowl" as their signal did pick up a bit on the eastside of Indy. (this was back when they were on the old stick at the studio location). Don't know how true that is, but it did increase somewhat when they built the new tower north of Danville.

 

[flashback]

Q95 is a mess and it baffles me that they remain one of the most popular stations here in the metro area. They played a nice variety of everything in the classic rock genre, including some good 90's alternative (Metallica, Stone Temple Pilots, etc.), but then throw in nauseating new music by Green Day or Buckcherry and I can't help but turn on my MP3 player. Don't even get me started on the two-three hour pre-game and post-game Colts coverage. I love sports, but it just seems like complete overkill, especially for meaningless pre-season games.

------ Tonk Women by the Rolling Stones

Ahahahahahaha... was the first part of this song title censored automatically? That is TOO funny.

Maybe this should be another thread, but I've noticed a definite shift in the music since Q95 fired their PD. They have moved more to the true classic rock format, and they are not trying to skew over to X103's music anymore as DrDru mentioned above. I really like the new playlist, not sure who's programming them right now, I know Ace Cosby used to be the Music Director, maybe it's him. In any case, the music is really sounding good now. Rumor is a new PD (out of towner) has been hired, but not yet announced - hopefully he/she doesn't screw with a good thing). Just my two cents, being a classic rock fan.

but they only play a couple songs per artist for the most part. if they announce an artist coming up in a few minutes at least 9 out of 10 times I can predict the song.of all the classic rock stations they are the worst yet they stay on top.it baffles me.

 

[flashback]

Oldies is a relative term. Which age group do you want to reach? Primarily male or female? I remember once calling Scott at Gold 104.5 to request a Doobies Brothers song from 1973 and he told me, with a bit of sarcasm, that the song was too "new" to play. He didn't agree but those were the programming rules.

I graduated from high school in '72, from college in '76. My brother graduated from high school in '77. Generally speaking, all oldies stations until now have been trying to reach the FIRST half of the baby-boom generation. No radio stations have attempted to reach the second half of the boomer generation with the music we listened to on WLS, Chicago, growing up in the Midwest. WKLU is playing the music that I listened to such as Earth, Wind & Fire, Carole King, Steely Dan, Jim Croce, Neil Diamond, Three Dog Night, Al Wilson, T Rex, etc.

WKLU's owner has great potential now to build an audience and to keep his sales department busy. Time will tell. Their signal has a lot of punch to it.

most people do not like to think of the songs from their teens /young adulthood as oldies.sometimes myself included.

what annoys me is the songs from that period of my life in comercials and muzac systems in stores.that and the fact that most people about my age don`t seem to mind.

 

[flashback]

another thing that annoys me is no matter how much I want to find an alternate to wklu, no matter how much russ dumbs down its sound(and he has done it twice now) there isn`t any other that I want to listen to as an alternative.it is still the better station to me.

having said that I still hate the format change. I am not bragging on russ , I am saying the other rock stations really don`t measure up.

 

[radioho]

having said that I still hate the format change. I am not bragging on russ , I am saying the other rock stations really don`t measure up.

You've made your point flashback. Just remember there will never be a radio station targeting single, 50-year-old ex-hippies driving around in their customized vans with fuzzy dice hanging from the rear-view mirror, waterbed in the back, and Robin Trower or Montrose blasting from the 8-track tape player.

what annoys me is the songs from that period of my life in comercials and muzac systems in stores.that and the fact that most people about my age don`t seem to mind.

So while watching TV, or shopping at the grocery store or mall, you'd rather hear what - Barry Manilow? Pat Boone?

most people do not like to think of the songs from their teens /young adulthood as oldies.sometimes myself included.

If you were a teenager when Woodstock happened - the music from your teens IS OLD - like 40 years ago dude!

And to all on the board -remember, 'tis the season - HO HO HO!

 

[flashback]

having said that I still hate the format change. I am not bragging on russ , I am saying the other rock stations really don`t measure up.

You've made your point flashback. Just remember there will never be a radio station targeting single, 50-year-old ex-hippies driving around in their customized vans with fuzzy dice hanging from the rear-view mirror, waterbed in the back, and Robin Trower or Montrose blasting from the 8-track tape player.

what annoys me is the songs from that period of my life in comercials and muzac systems in stores.that and the fact that most people about my age don`t seem to mind.

So while watching TV, or shopping at the grocery store or mall, you'd rather hear what - Barry Manilow? Pat Boone?

most people do not like to think of the songs from their teens /young adulthood as oldies.sometimes myself included.

If you were a teenager when Woodstock happened - the music from your teens IS OLD - like 40 years ago dude!

And to all on the board -remember, 'tis the season - HO HO HO!

I realize the music is old.I am at peace with that most of the time.I was just pointing out human nature.

I realize no station will cater to 50 year or older ex- hippies but I would like more ,improved selection then jack-fm classic rock and wfbq`s 3 song per artist playlist that miraculously stays on top.give listeners more to listen to.allow them to broaden their musical horizons.

while wklu wins by default it is a mere shell of its old self.

what I dislike about the old songs being on muzak and especially is it takes songs special to me and I am sure to others and turns them into freaking jingles and the great artist of the time and possibly still great artists by the means of the songs being used into pitchmen.

 

[flashback]

this is to clarifiy the last paragraph of my last post.

the reason I don`t like the old songs of my youth as muzack is it lessons the impact of the the songs and makes them purely background music. in my opinion.

I really dislike them in comercials because it takes them from good to great songs by good to great artists to a much lower levil of comercial jingle .

led zepplin ,the who , canned heat do not belong at the same levil a "pop, pop, fizz,fizz ,oh what a relief it is".

 

[speakerman]

My 2 cents worth after bouncing in my Audi Christmas day across Indy from party to party. I fit the demos of WKLU and like some of the music they play. I can't listen to any of the commercial stations in town for any duration unfortunately due to the listening fatigue from over-processing. WKLU has way too much IM from clipping and the stereo image collapses on peaks. They also don't handle the old source material that had overly panned and separated tracks. Most stations in town sound like their audio is squeezed through a Play-Doh extruder.

The only commercial station I can listen to for any period of time that plays music in my demo is WTTS. Whoever has set up their audio-chain has his ears attached to his brain. The only thing I can see that they could do better is to "normalize" all of the source material to make it friendly for the audio chain. It's garbage-in-garbage-out as it always has been. Since I would image very few are taking the time in the production studio with the numerous audio tools available to pre-process the troublemakers (anybody that has spent hours and days trying to fine tune an audio chain knows what I'm talking about) they go for a compromise. WTTS gets my vote right now. It's great to be a B and know you have IF limiter threshold to burn across your metro so you feel comfortable opening up the dynamic range. They have low IM and don't sound like fingernails scraping down a chalkboard. They don't quite have the "liquid" sound however they sound pretty good to my ears.

The loud stations sound exciting when you first tune into them however listening fatigue sets in quickly. All of these folks out there with iPods, MP3 players and CDs don't run their music through a Play-Doh extruder to get it to their ears. The most they put up with is the dulling they get from the lossy encoding processes. 103.3 can probably get away with it with their format due to the likely perception of their audience that grunge is good. Maybe you have to be in a chemically altered state to enjoy it.

With audio processing it is "pick your poison" as it is a necessary evil with the limited effective dynamic range one has in the fringe coverage area. The Bs have the advantage over the As in that department.

With all of that said...it would be a sad reality if the majority of the demo does not give a sh*# about the audio and will put up with whatever you feed them. I used to wonder if this was the case however am not sure now that there are so many people getting wide dynamic range audio fed right to there ears through earbuds.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[flashback]

I will try wtts as an alternative to wklu.they play pretty good classic rock songs and pehaps I can develop a taste for better new rock songs.

I liked the programing on wklu till it became oldies 101.9.

 

[speakerman]

I spent a couple of hours in the dental chair on North Meridian across from Entercon today. My dentist had WKLU on and asked me if I would like him to turn it up. He was really enthused about the playlist and said it was background all day. They do play a lot of memorable hits (not many stiffs) that match my demo. It sounded ok on his Wave-Radio when turned down low. The Wave-Radio has the typical Bose-boomy-bass and high end rolloff. The ear's loudness curve can mask a lot of audio problems when levels are low.

My dentist had one question for me which was amusing..."I don't hear many commercials on the station. Are they making any money?" A good question. Bruce and company apparently made off well. Nothing like more debt load to deal with.