WKNR: What would it take to force a format flip?

[FM 100 Means Music]

How many quarters of bad numbers would it take Good Karma to throw up their hands and flip WKNR to an entirely different format?

I'm not beholden to the 'KNR "legend" as some in this market seem to be, (when you're biggest claim to fame is having your logo appear briefly in the movie "Major League 2"....) and some of the people they employ have no place on radio at all (Munch and Goldhammer), or in this market (Reghi and Rhoda...GO BACK TO BALTIMORE, MIKE!!!!!!!), or are prime examples of DJs who have completely "burned out a market" and should have moved to a different city entirely about 15 years ago (Greg Brinda), and other hosts are prime examples about why the FCC should mandate Quality Control for brokered shows, I really want WKNR to close up shop for good and switch to Smooth Jazz or all-Hispanic radio or something.

 

[Tim]

Oldies 850?

It won't get big ratings, it won't ever hurt WMJI, but...they might be able to make a little $$$$ if the station watches it's expenses (i.e.: VTing instead of live, local jocks).

That could be an answer for 5 to 10 years before the core audience ages into their 70's and 80's and too many local advertisers won't want them any more.

Cleveland is an older market......just thinking.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Not a format flip per se, but have CBS buy the station and turn it into a 24/7 ESPN (and Rome) outlet with no local programming. WJZ/1300 Baltimore serves the exact same purpose as "ESPN 1300," an all-syndie counterpart to WJZ/105.7 "SportsRadio 105.7 The Fan."

That, or CBS buys WKNR, and turns it into a cheap 24/7 syndie talk format as "Talk Radio 850."

It all goes into the assumption that 1) CBS either stays in Cleveland, 2) keeps WKNR and WKRK but sells off WNCX, WQAL and WDOK, or 3) does it in advance of a selloff, regardless of the decade it occurs.

Aside from that, as long as Craig K. has some revenue stream coming in, WKNR will still be around. How long that lasts: who knows? But indeed, nothing is forever.

 

[SonoSational18]

I don't see an 850 format flip unless Karmazin sells it. If it goes on the block. don't rule out Clear Channel as a potential suitor, providing a companion station to WTAM. This was the original plan when Jacor bought the station back in the late 90's, but opted to sell it in order to assimilate the Nationwide portfolion without protracted hearings.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Any assumptions that Oak Tree is just dying to add a sports station to the portfolio along with WTAM are, well, dangerous.

I don't think Craig sells the thing to CBS - if you get past the three or four hurdles that say CBS is not BUYING in Cleveland, and heck, they're basically resigned to staying. thus "The Fan"'s birth.

Who's left to buy a nearly solo AMer in a declining now-barely-top-30 market?

My gut tells me that if "The Fan" gains dominance in this market at some point, Craig hangs in there, and maybe pares some local programming. Full-time ESPN with only tRBS as a primary daytime local show, anyone?

We're a long way from that scenario. 92.3 has to start piling up the ratings, first, and they are just out of the gate.

And besides, Good Karma relies not upon ratings, but marketing and package deals.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Any assumptions that Oak Tree is just dying to add a sports station to the portfolio along with WTAM are, well, dangerous.

It's far more likely that WTAM will move to the FM dial in total - AND sell off 1100 - before they buy another AM... assuming CC ever could buy one. Last I checked, they couldn't - or WKNR would have been snatched up YEARS ago.

I don't think Craig sells the thing to CBS - if you get past the three or four hurdles that say CBS is not BUYING in Cleveland, and heck, they're basically resigned to staying. thus "The Fan"'s birth.

Who's left to buy a nearly solo AMer in a declining now-barely-top-30 market?

No one. And if Salem really does want out of Cleveland, they can't find a buyer either. WFHM might fetch a pretty penny, but WHKW and WHK won't be worth much, if anything. And the shame of it is, either 1220 or 1420 have better coverage than 850! (Heck, they STILL can't sell WHKZ/1440 in Warren, and they've come close to giving it away!)

It's very possible that there could be a lot of money hemorrhaging in the coming decade, as all three AM signals will be nothing more than dead weight. If Craig K. or Salem can't get out in five years... they will likely sink with bona fide money losers.

My gut tells me that if "The Fan" gains dominance in this market at some point, Craig hangs in there, and maybe pares some local programming. Full-time ESPN with only tRBS as a primary daytime local show, anyone?

We're a long way from that scenario. 92.3 has to start piling up the ratings, first, and they are just out of the gate.

And 92.3 has not even had a credible marketing campaign yet (note that WDOK, WNCX and Q104 are SO identifiable, they don't need to do heavy marketing campaigns for those three). Lord knows what would happen if a billboard for The Fan actually popped up one day.

And even when the Browns rights come up for renewal (WKNR has ZERO chance because they have no FM sister/partner) or the Indians rights... that will take years to really reveal anything. In Boston, WBZ-FM obliterated stalwart WEEI in key dayparts (forcing WEEI's ultimate move to FM)... but WBZ-FM was already armed with the Patriots and the Bruins out of the gate.

WKRK isn't as lucky. But that's been common knowledge.

And besides, Good Karma relies not upon ratings, but marketing and package deals.

BINGO. Billing WKNR and KNR2 as "the only all-sports outlets in Cleveland" (even while no one has given a damn about 1540 since it was WABQ) has long afforded them good revenue regardless of their ratings.

But if their major clients look to jump to their competitor by ratings performance, that that's a BIG problem for Craig K.

 

[Capulet]

How many quarters of bad numbers would it take Good Karma to throw up their hands and flip WKNR to an entirely different format?

Sport radio is not a " ratings driven " sell. It's an " association " sell. WKNR clients want the audience that uses NFL, MLB, NBA,NCAA prodcuts. It's a much easier task to sell the " association " with sports franchises. No cost per point pricing, no AQH or Cume rankings. Sports radio is a niche format never even in the Top 15 in any market.

WKNR will not flip as long as Mel owns it. He didn't pay an astronomical amount for it. If revenue fell below a million a year he might bail. Anyone see the Miller Kaplan? I'm guessing they bill 3 or 3.5 mill a year.

Time will tell if there are enough advertisers in this market to sustain 2 niche formats.
I would restate your question this way. How long can this market sustain 2 sports talk formats?

 

[Tim]

Or, as about 10 of my radio/sports buddies have said...if GKB was THAT serious about a long-term stay in Cleveland...why didn't they buy WNWV or WFSH (The Fish's calls, I think)?????

It's not like Craig's relatives and business friends aren't financially able.

That's the biggest shock to me: GKB's lack of acquiring a local FM over the past few years. Now, it's probably too late.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Or, as about 10 of my radio/sports buddies have said...if GKB was THAT serious about a long-term stay in Cleveland...why didn't they buy WNWV or WFSH (The Fish's calls, I think)?????

It's not like Craig's relatives and business friends aren't financially able.

That's the biggest shock to me: GKB's lack of acquiring a local FM over the past few years. Now, it's probably too late.

He technically still can compete with just 850 for a few years. But as the AM band slowly dies off, and should WKRK take off (AND acquire major PBP), it won't matter by then. Out of all the AM stations in the market, only WTAM has the capability to remain viable in the market by virtue of ratings, ownership and wattage. No one else can.

ESPECIALLY given WKNR's poor signal coverage that ignores much of the Cleveland market proper, an FM would have been imperative.

My guess is that Craig K.'s fellow investors have viewed an FM as too much as a risk, and not worth taking. But then you look at the sale price for WNWV and proceed to have a cerebral hemorrhage.

 

[vjm]

If memory serves...

The total cost of WKNR, WWGK, and the new Galleria studios came to about $10 million.

WNWV went for about $6.5 million.

Something doesn't add up.

 

[Rusty Muck]

If memory serves...

The total cost of WKNR, WWGK, and the new Galleria studios came to about $10 million.

WNWV went for about $6.5 million.

Something doesn't add up.

WKNR was ALSO valued at $6.5M when Craig K. pried it from Salem in 2006. WWGK (nee WABQ) went for $1.5M. (Studio space in the Galleria cost $2.5M, which comes to the near $10M total.)

Salem and Dale Edwards made off like bandits. He overpaid for both signals. By signal coverage alone, no way is WKNR worth $6.5M, then or now.

And Rubber City got the best possible FM signal in the market not located in the Parma tower farm for a near-steal.

Wow.

 

[74WIXYGrad]

And Rubber City got the best possible FM signal in the market not located in the Parma tower farm for a near-steal.

Wow.

Well good things do happen to good people.

 

[zrl]

Craig's investors, family and otherwise, were probably promised a certain return on investment back in '06 that by '08 was not happening. That may have made another acquisition impossible. Although since it is a "buyers market" it does make one question the wisdom of passing on WNWV. But if RCRG & GK were in a bidding war for 107.3, what would the sale price have been? Once Mandel was in the mix Craig couldn't buy 107.3 for $6,500,001-- how high would Mandel have gone if he had competition from another bidder? We don't really know.

As far as a format flip for 850 (or webstream-with-a-small-transmitter 1540), I don't see it coming because GK is a sports marketing company first-- they do own a rock station or too IIRC, but they're small market FM's, nothing that be a logical format for an AM signal in a top-30 (but sinking) market.

And as far as selling out, they would have to take a haircut on the sale price, and as long as there is some positive cash flow, the investors may not allow that. So I think we will continue to have plenty of Craig and company's antics to discuss here for quite awhile.

 

[SonoSational18]

If CC bought 850 I'm not convinced they'd keep it sports. More likely they would clear some more Premiere syndicated programming... maybe move Glenn Beck there and go local in middays. Sort of like WKRC is to WLW in Cincinnati. At some point WTAM will have to move to the FM band to remain viable, but that may be several years down the road. The most likely candidate as WTAM-FM??? My money is on 98.1. Especially in mono they now have a decent signal over a good portion of the metro. Being licensed to Akron (ok, Munroe Falls) they don't count against the ownership cap and CC can keep their other successful music brands. If this were a year ago, my money would be them flipping 106.5, but they aren't going to walk away from those ratings with virtually no overhead.

 

[Capulet]

CC has WTAM...50,000 watts full time....they have no use for a 1/2 signal that would cannibalize 1100.

 

[almaniac27]

CC has WTAM...50,000 watts full time....they have no use for a 1/2 signal that would cannibalize 1100.

It seems to work out for them in Cincinnati, but Cincinnati is a very different market when it comes to radio, at least in my opinion, which is based purely on listening and researching the various stations involved, so take it with a grain of salt. But in my humble experience, Cincinnati has more of a southern, conservative flavor, which explains the multitude of country and conservative AM talk stations there. There was a book not too long ago where the number 1 and 2 stations were 700 WLW and 550 WKRC, both AM stations broadcasting mostly conservative talk. We're also 20 years behind everyone else, so that might explain it.

 

[Tim]

When CC moved 98.1's transmitter site to Bellair Lane north of Cuyahoga Falls, they had to install a directional antenna to protect, among others, WNCX 98.5....a couple clicks down the dial.

Thus, their signal over the multiple county Cleveland metro isn't as good as it was when WKDD used to be on 96.5 using a non-directional antenna (from the same transmitter site....though it was on a different tower).

Remember...although 98.1 is now re-licensed to Munroe Falls....that frequency was originally designed to be a Canton COL...and wasn't really expected to cover the Cleveland metro.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I seem to recall that any northern directional protection on the new 98.1 facility isn't that severe. (Scott Fybush, if he's visiting the board, would have the definitive word on that.)

I do have a hard time seeing 98.1 as "WTAM-FM", though I suspect a full-power FM simulcast of 1100 is probably happening at some point.

To that end, CC is still trying to light up that 99.1 FM translator on the WMJI stick. (W259BI currently, the former W262BN) I don't know why the FCC put the brakes on it a while back.

I'd almost eat my non-existent hat that CC will use that as a "now on 99.1 FM!" simulcaster for WTAM, much like they've done in Miami (now two translators repeating WIOD) and Portland OR. It seems to be their temporary solution in markets like Cleveland, where they have no faltering full-power FMs to flip.

 

[Rusty Muck]

CC has WTAM...50,000 watts full time....they have no use for a 1/2 signal that would cannibalize 1100.

It seems to work out for them in Cincinnati, but Cincinnati is a very different market when it comes to radio, at least in my opinion, which is based purely on listening and researching the various stations involved, so take it with a grain of salt. But in my humble experience, Cincinnati has more of a southern, conservative flavor, which explains the multitude of country and conservative AM talk stations there. There was a book not too long ago where the number 1 and 2 stations were 700 WLW and 550 WKRC, both AM stations broadcasting mostly conservative talk. We're also 20 years behind everyone else, so that might explain it. 

Cincinnati is an outlier for a whole different reason. CC owns the four biggest AM signals in town. WKRC/550, WLW/700, WSAI/1360 and WCKY/1530. As such, they have a near monopoly on the spoken word format.

Out of the four, only WLW is live/local on a near 24/7 basis. But because WKRC now exists to house Glenn, Rush, Hannity, Savage, Levin and C2C, it affords WLW to continue with the all-local, all-aggressive "Big One" talk format Randy Michaels pioneered 25 years earlier. (Oh, and it doesn't hurt for WLW to have both the Reds PBP and a shared three-way Bengals flagship.)

The only other example of such an arrangement is in San Francisco, where Cumulus has two local/syndie AM duopolies: legacy ABC Radio stations KSFO/560 (syndicated: Rush, Hannity, Levin...) and KGO/810 (all local). Not to mention the two KNBRs, but both stations carry ESPN Radio on overnights and much of weekends.

WSAI and WCKY now are mostly satellite-drive sports talk, but by clearing both ESPN and Fox Sports, it prevents an independent AM station from clearing either network.

True, there is an independent talker in Cincinnati - WQRT/1160, owned by Christian Broadcasting System - and they've picked up some WLW castoffs. They have promise, but their night signal has always been awful. Same situation with independently-owned oldies-formatted WDJO/1360.

Bottom line, Cincinnati is so much the exception to the rule - demographics notwithstanding - that CC could never attempt a carbon copy of a WLW/WKRC duopoly anywhere else, let alone Cleveland.

 

[SonoSational18]

Here's the 98.1 coverage map... decide for yourself. With a spoken word format in mono, the signal should be pretty reliable to at least the second circle. http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WKDD&service=FM&status=L&hours=U