WKTU's Very Strong Ratings

[Barry]

Today's NY Daily News has an article by David Hinckley with the PPM ratings for several age groups. I thought it was interesting that WKTU was doing so well among the key demos. In April it was #2 among 25-54 (tied with Z-100), and #3 18-34.
I wonder whether the success of this rhythmic station indicates that a "younger" dance station, with a format similar to the old Pulse 87, could succeed if it was on a good signal and was well managed. Or perhaps 'KTU's excellent ratings show that the vast majority of the people that like listening to rhythmic music on the radio prefer to have it mixed in with some other CHR type songs, and do not want much hard core cutting edge dance tunes.

The article: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...10-05-25_lite_fantastic_in_ratings_again.html

 

[d21ofnj]

This is something NOW should look into. Let the cutting edge dance have a chance to be spun on 92.3, and their target demo would rise. I do notice a lot of the dance is on the Saturday Night Dance Factory after 11PM. As for KTU, I am very impressed to see them grow, and let's not forget their upcoming concert Beatstock, which will surely be packed.

 

[MarcR]

Or perhaps 'KTU's excellent ratings show that the vast majority of the people that like listening to rhythmic music on the radio prefer to have it mixed in with some other CHR type songs, and do not want much hard core cutting edge dance tunes.

The article: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertai...10-05-25_lite_fantastic_in_ratings_again.html

That was very well put, and is probably closest to the truth. The PPM would punish a station that leaned too heavily in the direction of cutting edge dance.

 

[Groove1670]

Listeners want to hear the hits.

 

[mjb1124]

I have to say, CBS-FM making it to #8 in the 18-34 demographic, as well as #5 in 25-54, is pretty impressive. Heck, CBS-FM got better 18-34 numbers than Fresh, a station that prides itself on not being "tired and old". It also did better in that demographic than WAXQ, which surprised me. (Q did better in 25-54 though.) People have said that their very high 12+ numbers don't matter, but combining that with the respectable numbers they get in the younger demos, there's absolutely no questioning that the station is a success.

 

[DToTheJ]

I guess we can forget the possibility of Clear Channel turning 103.5 into "Rush Radio"...

Can you say... "Power" outage?

 

[TonySantiago]

I've always said (to the point of "ad nauseum" lol) that if Pulse was on a strong signal above 92.1, the station would be in the Top 5.

Having said that, I am not surprised about KTU's numbers rising. If anything, I'll go as far as saying that dumping the tired out disco and classic freestyle throughout the day parts and leaning more on mainstream dance and rhythmic hits have actually HELPED spur 'KTU's growth, which had started happening last year. But with the younger demos, I will also point out that since there is NO LONGER a Pulse 87 on the FM or Party FM in NYC (when they were on 87.7) those listeners that didn't flock over to the dance stations on the Internet or are driving/being driven in their cars and DON'T have satellite radio are going over to 'KTU since it is "something". Those same listeners are also starting to go over to 92.3 NOW and tuning in.

Yet I still feel that those younger demos may WANT a little on the "edgy" side of dance that Pulse was doing. And let's point this out, since we are talking about hits and something that most people never thought of or didn't realize, Pulse 87 DID play rhythmic hits too.

Perhaps we may always think of Pulse as a dance station, to which they had a STRONG LEAN towards, but I do remember the station playing Sean Kingston, Justin Timberlake, Flo Rida, Mary J. Blige, so in that sense they did flow HITS there. And if a pop artist had a remix, Pulse 87 would be on top of that as well.

More importantly than just playing the music and leaning it in a certain direction, if a dance leaning station is going to come back, they have to hit the MAJOR advertisers PRONTO! That was Pulse 87's perennial problem, not the music. With a weak signal and a low dial position, only ONE big brand company advertised there early on. For a dance station to stick around longer than 20 months, it's going to need the cellular companies, beverage companies, health/beauty products, travel, etc. on a signal ABOVE 92 to support and make profits.
Radio IS a business, bottom line.

If such a dance/CHR station (yeah, I said it! lol) did come through, it would not impact 'KTU's numbers as a whole. The younger demos may lean back to another "Pulse 87 style" type of station but since 'KTU has always had their impact on the W 25-54's, 'KTU would not take a dramatic numbers drop when that does happen (and yeah, I said WHEN because we are going to push for it again.).

Though this time, a "break" from dance on the radio was good since it gave some folks a chance to relax and heal from the Pulse 87 bankruptcy and what PartyFM had done, upon immediately landing the 87.7 frequency, that had some dance fans in a "tizzy" with the hip-hop aspect.

Heck, I can deal with a Justin Bieber. Lay down a Moto Blanco remix and we're good

 

[DToTheJ]

Meanwhile on Long Island, Party FM experienced a growth of 3,500 listeners over the previous month...

 

[MoldaMania182]

KTU's rise isn't that surprising give the current culture of CHR. Putting the Pulse 87/ cries for a current dance based station story here in NY here aside, look around CHR. Look at the just released June Promo CHR disc in particular... How is anyone surprised? I'll call it 'light dance' for layman's terms, but this is the new pop.

 

[JustinCase]

I've been saying it for years - KTU is what dance stations need to be to be successful long term. A groovy Top 40/Rhythmic AC blend that allows it to swing with the trends and hold on when dance is less favorable. They're successful, they're a top player again - I'd like to see them jump on a few more dance tracks and throw them into rotation / especially at night when the listeners are younger!

 

[TonySantiago]

I've been saying it for years - KTU is what dance stations need to be to be successful long term. A groovy Top 40/Rhythmic AC blend that allows it to swing with the trends and hold on when dance is less favorable. They're successful, they're a top player again - I'd like to see them jump on a few more dance tracks and throw them into rotation / especially at night when the listeners are younger!

For the record, I'm NOT knocking 'KTU. If anything, for what they do I give them credit.

However, and no diss to you Justin because I am sure there are others that may think this, to use 'KTU as an example of a dance station is like calling french vanilla ice cream as vanilla. Yes, vanilla tastes good and everyone knows it. But for those that are looking for french vanilla, you can't tell them that what they are eating IS "french vanilla" when you're clearly giving them "vanilla" There is a different taste. And that's really the point of it all. 'KTU is doing what they are doing and have done so for quite awhile, but you can't call them "dance" since they only cover a certain portion of it but not a fuller plate.

'KTU is what it is, a rhythmic A/C that while having some aspects of dance, the mainstream portions, it still has the rhythmic R&B as well as some older tracks (from perhaps the past 10 years or so) that while having an appeal towards women, is not dance music per se. And it works for them. Actually for SMALLER cities, a station like a 'KTU would be a blessing for them. That may be a bigger help in that regards. But for a region such as here, where people KNOW better especially upon hearing a Pulse 87 or Party FM, more has to happen. And while it may not be as "simple as that" regarding getting the mainstream advertisers on line (not just the clubs, local tanning salons, etc.) it still is something that CAN give them money.

Our "brand" is getting stronger. Money CAN be made. They just have to get at it and I'm more than willing to help them in that regard.

TS

 

[TonySantiago]

Meanwhile on Long Island, Party FM experienced a growth of 3,500 listeners over the previous month...

Well, as long as the numbers didn't take a U-turn....... ;D

 

[Radaioman]

Niche radio doesn't work. Niche fans are more passionate because they can lay claim to their niche as if it's their religion. Their special thing. But, niche doesn't make money because it's appealing to a small group of passionate fans who will swear it's mass appeal. Some bands are great in small clubs. You know the bass player and you swear they will be huge someday if only given the chance, but you're blinded by the fact that you were at their first show and don't see that they will never be Aerosmith. They will always be...niche.

KTU is Aerosmith. They aren't ALL dance, as Aeromsmith isn't ALL rock. There are better rock bands, better musicians, better singers. But they are mass appeal and huge. KTU is exactly what it should be. Mass appeal.
There are better comics than Dane Cook. He's mass appeal.

Niche is for college radio, TV stations that broadcast radio, iPods and clubs.

I've been saying it for years - KTU is what dance stations need to be to be successful long term. A groovy Top 40/Rhythmic AC blend that allows it to swing with the trends and hold on when dance is less favorable. They're successful, they're a top player again - I'd like to see them jump on a few more dance tracks and throw them into rotation / especially at night when the listeners are younger!

For the record, I'm NOT knocking 'KTU. If anything, for what they do I give them credit.

However, and no diss to you Justin because I am sure there are others that may think this, to use 'KTU as an example of a dance station is like calling french vanilla ice cream as vanilla. Yes, vanilla tastes good and everyone knows it. But for those that are looking for french vanilla, you can't tell them that what they are eating IS "french vanilla" when you're clearly giving them "vanilla" There is a different taste. And that's really the point of it all. 'KTU is doing what they are doing and have done so for quite awhile, but you can't call them "dance" since they only cover a certain portion of it but not a fuller plate.

'KTU is what it is, a rhythmic A/C that while having some aspects of dance, the mainstream portions, it still has the rhythmic R&B as well as some older tracks (from perhaps the past 10 years or so) that while having an appeal towards women, is not dance music per se. And it works for them. Actually for SMALLER cities, a station like a 'KTU would be a blessing for them. That may be a bigger help in that regards. But for a region such as here, where people KNOW better especially upon hearing a Pulse 87 or Party FM, more has to happen. And while it may not be as "simple as that" regarding getting the mainstream advertisers on line (not just the clubs, local tanning salons, etc.) it still is something that CAN give them money.

Our "brand" is getting stronger. Money CAN be made. They just have to get at it and I'm more than willing to help them in that regard.

TS

 

[TonySantiago]

Niche radio doesn't work. Niche fans are more passionate because they can lay claim to their niche as if it's their religion. Their special thing. But, niche doesn't make money because it's appealing to a small group of passionate fans who will swear it's mass appeal. Some bands are great in small clubs. You know the bass player and you swear they will be huge someday if only given the chance, but you're blinded by the fact that you were at their first show and don't see that they will never be Aerosmith. They will always be...niche.

KTU is Aerosmith. They aren't ALL dance, as Aeromsmith isn't ALL rock. There are better rock bands, better musicians, better singers. But they are mass appeal and huge. KTU is exactly what it should be. Mass appeal.
There are better comics than Dane Cook. He's mass appeal.

Niche is for college radio, TV stations that broadcast radio, iPods and clubs.

And that's the type of attitude that's going to continue to kill things further for terrestrial radio. Where are those 20 somethings now? Listening to "niche" programming on the iPods and streaming Internet stations.

AND ONCE AGAIN....I am NOT arguing about 'KTU. They serve their audience well, older and female. But it would be delusional to think ALL dance fans are going to "subscribe" to 'KTU's formatics because the reality is, they don't.

Heck, I'll even take it as this...contemporary dance may be considered NICHE in smaller markets and stations like a 'KTU would work out well in smaller cities. But in NEW YORK CITY, there are more dance fans that WANT the edgier stuff. And quite honestly, what Pulse and Party did wasn't radical. It's Dance CHR, plain and simple. But I digress.....do yourself a favor and GO to MegaJam (July 17th). GO to BeatStock (Aug 7th & 8th). GO to Electric Zoo (Labor Day Weekend) and you tell me what you see there.

 

[briancraig]

Tony, I think we can all agree that especially in the PPM world, commercial radio stations have to play the hits of their genre in order to have enough of audience to be successful.

This is true if you are talking about the current hits on WHTZ or the classic hits on WCBS or the classic rock on WAXQ or the rhythmic AC hits on WKTU.

My question: Is this possible for the dance genre? Could you take 30 current dance songs mixed with some older tunes of the past few years and mix them in a way that could attract enough of an audience to be successful in NYC and satisfy both the more casual dance fans who just enjoy the music and the hardcore dance crowd that would attend an event like BeatStock?

It seems like my perception is that the people who long for a dance station are much like the indie rock audience and could never be satisfied by a station that would have to be mass appeal enough to make the station worthwhile from a business standpoint in a market as big as New York.

 

[MarcR]

It seems like my perception is that the people who long for a dance station are much like the indie rock audience and could never be satisfied by a station that would have to be mass appeal enough to make the station worthwhile from a business standpoint in a market as big as New York.

I think many, if not most, of the indie rock audience, technologically astute as they are, have moved on from terrestrial radio. A study was released a couple of years ago that documented the sharp drop off in time spent listening among college graduates, and I bet a significant proportion of them are fans of indie rock.

 

[TonySantiago]

Tony, I think we can all agree that especially in the PPM world, commercial radio stations have to play the hits of their genre in order to have enough of audience to be successful.

This is true if you are talking about the current hits on WHTZ or the classic hits on WCBS or the classic rock on WAXQ or the rhythmic AC hits on WKTU.

No argument there.

My question: Is this possible for the dance genre? Could you take 30 current dance songs mixed with some older tunes of the past few years and mix them in a way that could attract enough of an audience to be successful in NYC and satisfy both the more casual dance fans who just enjoy the music and the hardcore dance crowd that would attend an event like BeatStock?

That's how 'KTU was from 1996 to 2006 somewhat. However the lean at the station was about 70% older and 30% current, with a majority of the older stuff being 70's disco and 80's/early 90's classic freestyle music, not necessarily music from the past couple of years or so. However bringing up the past few years or so with the current dance tracks out there CAN work out. The trick of it, IMHO, is that blend. I do think dance fans are open to hearing a track from 5 years ago or so versus the older track overkill 'KTU did in the past (and to a certain extent the overkill Pulse 87 did with classic freestyle) so as long as that track is relevant to the dance music fans "needs". I can hear a "World Hold On" by Bob Sinclar along with something current by AnnaGrace and that's fine. And if you had to throw in Lady GaGa, Rihanna, Beyonce in there, that is fine too. Yet, it is that balance somehow that has to be taken into consideration and not to lean a certain sound TOO far of a direction where you alienate a certain aspect of an audience.

It seems like my perception is that the people who long for a dance station are much like the indie rock audience and could never be satisfied by a station that would have to be mass appeal enough to make the station worthwhile from a business standpoint in a market as big as New York.

That brings up the PartyFM argument when they were on 87.7 just after Pulse went bankrupt. At that time, while Party did play some of the elements of dance that Pulse did have, there was that strong lean towards R&B/hip-hop which made dance music fans go up in arms. Now, while I DO understand why PartyFM did that (they can "sell" a Lil' Wayne or Jay-Z into a format better since people know them versus a Kim Sozzi or Lucas Prata - known to the dance music community but not beyond the casual listener), there was that alienation somehow (though IMHO it was "bad timing" since Party came on 87.7 immediately after Pulse went bankrupt and people that have CRAVED the Pulse format were not getting used to NOR WANTED TO OPEN UP to a different interpretation.). That's why in some ways I am kinda "glad" that there's been this "break" of not having a dance format on the FM in NYC so as to let all of that anger and hostilities go as well as for our community to realize that we did have it pretty good yet we "lost it". However, having said that, a market like New York City DOES NEED a dance/CHR station again since there is a significant audience here that wants it. At the same time we have to get those major advertisers on our side and to try to sell the format somehow WITHOUT having to lean on other rhythmic genres in order to do so. Yes, PLAY some CHR. Yes, PLAY some past dance tracks within the past 5 years give and take. As long as the lean is in the ballpark of "65/35" with current dance getting the favor.

I think dance fans can be satisfied with that and make financial sense for any company looking into the format as well as the advertisers buying into it.

I did read a post by JustinCase before it was deleted in here so I'll bring that point up about the night aspect...'KTU, during the mid 00's DID lean heavier with current dance on the format (during Vic Latino's show). However, aside from the Saturday Night mix shows that 'KTU has, for what 'KTU is doing now it wouldn't make sense for them to do currents like that since musically they have branded themselves on that older lean. As a rhythmic A/C, KTU IS successful. If any station needs to adapt a 'KTU style, it should be 939/MIA in Miami. Their lean on older disco/freestyle dance tracks is getting criticism.

 

[JustinCase]

I thought I was imagining that I had wrote that post, or thought I hadn't sent it... but apparently I did send my dayparting post... why was it deleted?

 

[TonySantiago]

I thought I was imagining that I had wrote that post, or thought I hadn't sent it... but apparently I did send my dayparting post... why was it deleted?

My guess was the response you gave to the person before. The one hyping about Pulse 87

 

[nd2023]

My 106.1 in Philly sounds pretty much like KTU sounded like before Pulse. It's doing well over there. It has competition from the rimshots z88.9 and Super 91.7.