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WLKK

B

BuffRad

Guest
I can't find anyone that knows real facts but I heard the WLKK call letters haven't been lucky in the Buffalo market either. Here in ERIE I heard WLKK was flat in Buffalo. Dead in the water. Have they trended down to a new low?
 
> I can't find anyone that knows real facts but I heard the
> WLKK call letters haven't been lucky in the Buffalo market
> either. Here in ERIE I heard WLKK was flat in Buffalo. Dead
> in the water. Have they trended down to a new low?
>
<font face="times new roman" color="3300aa" size="3">
Sigh. We've beaten this issue to near death here.

Check past posts from Sir Roxalot, Bob Smith and just about any regular on this board to get a summary of opinion. The station is what it is (man, that phrase has certainly become the flavor of the day, hasn't it.) Some love it, some are bored with it. Wallpaper. It hasn't knocked anybody's socks off. It's just there. Ratings are flat and in some cases, down. 97 Rock owns Men 25-54, every other station is a distant second, third, fourth or fifth. Marginal but adequate signal, uninspiring presentation, left of center promotions. It may be too hip for the market. One thing it's decidedly not is the old WPHD or WYSL-FM.</font>
<hr>
Nine lines just abouts sums it up. Just an observation, but this station would seem to have more benefit for Entercom if it was country. That ain't gonna happen. WYRK is a runaway train.
 
> decidedly not is the old WPHD or WYSL-FM.
>
> Nine lines just abouts sums it up. Just an observation, but
> this station would seem to have more benefit for Entercom if
> it was country. That ain't gonna happen. WYRK is a runaway
> train.

Given the station's rural coverage why didn't country work before. In this day and age of group owners sometimes it's good to have a station with similar format to the other guys especially if the other guys are #1 in the format!

MikeM
 
NUC-ed

107.7 didn't work as country before because they just didn't have the promotional dollars or enough "country credibility". I'm not a country fan, but didn't they have Tom Donahue on mornings? He's not exactly known as a country guy. Wasn't Buddy Shula also full time on air there? As a jock, he's a terrific salesman.

Even if they had decent talent, they sure didn't have the dollars to promote it. I suspect Entercom could do a much better job.
 
Re: NUC-ed

> Even if they had decent talent, they sure didn't have the
> dollars to promote it. I suspect Entercom could do a much
> better job.
>
What type of country?
Head on attacking of 106.5?...or another form of Country that Infinity leaves out...If another form of Country were the way to go, wouldn't sister 92.9 have tried it? Y'know, get the 25-34 to love one station, so they grow up to love the other? the 35 plus could love the other for now...oh right, the am side has a country station...but isn't that station going after an even older crowd?...or is my point crushed by the reality of how the Am station is doing?<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: NUC-ed

> > Even if they had decent talent, they sure didn't have the
> > dollars to promote it. I suspect Entercom could do a much
> > better job.
> >
> What type of country?
> Head on attacking of 106.5?...or another form of Country
> that Infinity leaves out...If another form of Country were
> the way to go, wouldn't sister 92.9 have tried it? Y'know,
> get the 25-34 to love one station, so they grow up to love
> the other? the 35 plus could love the other for now...oh
> right, the am side has a country station...but isn't that
> station going after an even older crowd?...or is my point
> crushed by the reality of how the Am station is doing?
>
Lemme 'splain somethin'.

WYRK possesses with a tight grip everything between 18 and 64. The "young country" theory about WBUF is a wash. WYRK owns young country, middle aged country and old country. No need to control the flank with another station.

There is no country on "the AM side." That would be WECK and they do Music of Your Grandparent's Life. Quite nicely. WECK beats KB. Go figure.

As to Mr. Radknowski's theory, if WLKK can't make a dent in 97 Rock, what makes anybody think a country format on 107.7 would make a dent in equally dominant WYRK. Been there, done that. Faggidaboudit.

-9-
 
Re: NUC-ed

> As to Mr. Radknowski's theory, if WLKK can't make a dent in
> 97 Rock, what makes anybody think a country format on 107.7
> would make a dent in equally dominant WYRK. Been there, done
> that. Faggidaboudit.

There's a big difference between taking on 97-Rock and taking on WYRK. 97-Rock focuses on a PORTION of the rock audience, and does it very well. WLKK is also focusing on a PORTION of the rock audience, and doing a format that was tired in 1982.

WYRK, as the only country game in town, gets 18-64 by default. I think that 107.7 has a better chance of making an impact by targeting the lower demos of the country market with listeners who are not as "locked in". I'm not saying it would be cheap or easy, but it's potentially more lucrative than the current course of action.
 
Re: NUC-ed

Entercom has a Strong country station just 60 miles east of Rochester, as WBEE posts big numbers, and in my opinion is the best country station in the area (better than WYRK, and WAY better than recurrent/gold heavy WBBS out of Syracuse).

WBEE is how a country station should be run, live all parts of the day (including overnights), frequent caller request portions (noon, nighttime, satruday nights), top 10 nightly countdown, a test track every weeknight, and very deep new music playlists (play new singles by ALL artists, not just the core acts).

If possible, Entercom should just simlucast WBEE on the 107.7 signal and regionalize the station. If not, Entercom probably wont do country on 107.7 as they wouldn't want to cut any of WBEE's rating (107.7 reaches well into Wayne County). Heck, I wouldn't mind WGR getting simlucast on 107.7 . Rochester could use more local talk and Sabres games (WROC night signal is terrible)
 
Re: NUC-ed

>> There is no country on "the AM side."

"Element-Nine," I was rather surprised to read that sentence, especially since you appear to be one of the more informed contributors to this board. There is a country station on the AM band, owned and operated by this area's most respected country music personality, Ramblin' Lou. Granted, WXRL's audience is miniscule, compared to WYRK, and it can't compete with the FM giant. But as I've stated before, WXRL has a small, but devoted and loyal audience, especially in the rural areas of Southern Erie County. Listen to WXRL and you'll hear quite a few ads from small businesses that otherwise could not afford to advertise on the radio. I would say the Western New York radio market is better because of Ramblin' Lou's presence. Lou is a member of the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall of Fame, the only country personality, I believe, to be so honored. So, I just didn't want to see his presence on "the AM side" shortchanged. Long live Ramblin' Lou!
 
Re: NUC-ed

>> If possible, Entercom should just simlucast WBEE on the
> 107.7 signal and regionalize the station. If not, Entercom
> probably wont do country on 107.7 as they wouldn't want to
> cut any of WBEE's rating (107.7 reaches well into Wayne
> County). Heck, I wouldn't mind WGR getting simlucast on
> 107.7 . Rochester could use more local talk and Sabres
> games (WROC night signal is terrible)

Sooo...people in Buffalo shop in Rochester often? and Vice versa?

Remember the mistake in Canada known as Energy radio? (that's Energy radio, not Energy 108, respectfully.)

No one cared because their community wasn't served properly.
Local news weather and sports an important factor too.
Telling people in Buffalo to visit a bar in Rochester will be a bad call.
Keep it local.
<P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by YeziKnoradio on 12/03/05 07:16 AM.</FONT></P>
 
Clarification

Consider myself duly reprimanded. However, I was responding to what I interpreted as the original poster speculating that Infinity owned an AM country station, which is why I responded that WECK was running the MOYL format. WXRL Lancaster is without question a unique AM country station.


> "Element-Nine," I was rather surprised to read that
> sentence, especially since you appear to be one of the more
> informed contributors to this board. There is a country
> station on the AM band, owned and operated by this area's
> most respected country music personality, Ramblin' Lou.
> Granted, WXRL's audience is miniscule, compared to WYRK, and
> it can't compete with the FM giant. But as I've stated
> before, WXRL has a small, but devoted and loyal audience,
> especially in the rural areas of Southern Erie County.
> Listen to WXRL and you'll hear quite a few ads from small
> businesses that otherwise could not afford to advertise on
> the radio. I would say the Western New York radio market is
> better because of Ramblin' Lou's presence. Lou is a member
> of the Buffalo Broadcasters Hall of Fame, the only country
> personality, I believe, to be so honored. So, I just didn't
> want to see his presence on "the AM side" shortchanged.
> Long live Ramblin' Lou!
>
 
Re: Clarification

> Consider myself duly reprimanded. However, I was responding
> to what I interpreted as the original poster speculating
> that Infinity owned an AM country station, which is why I
> responded that WECK was running the MOYL format. WXRL
> Lancaster is without question a unique AM country station.
advertise on

Ownership of the AM station was not on my mind at time of original posting.
Just the fact that an AM country station does exsist. <P ID="signature">______________
"If you never say NO, How much is your YES worth?"
</P>
 
Re: NUC-ed

> 107.7 didn't work as country before because they just didn't
> have the promotional dollars or enough "country
> credibility". I'm not a country fan, but didn't they have
> Tom Donahue on mornings? He's not exactly known as a country
> guy. Wasn't Buddy Shula also full time on air there? As a
> jock, he's a terrific salesman.
>
> Even if they had decent talent, they sure didn't have the
> dollars to promote it. I suspect Entercom could do a much
> better job.
>

I don't know Donahue personally but from what little I have heard I think he would be okay doing country music, he sounds like a pro and I'm sure he brought that to the show.

Promation is what it's all about. That makes a difference but promotion is more than billboards and TV spots. I've worked at stations where managment spent a ton on billboards that nobody noticed.

Entercom needs to do it. Why let WYRK go unchallenged?

In Charlotte WSOC-FM was in a similar position #1 in every book. They got some competition from another FM and it took a long time but now WSOC-FM is no longer the clear winner. The stations battle back and forth one is owned by Clear Channel and the other is owned by Infinity.

I'm sure the advertisers looking for the country audience would like to have a second choice.

MikeM
 
Re: NUC-ed

>
> Entercom needs to do it. Why let WYRK go unchallenged?
>

The Lake has another year left in its 'grace period' before the local managers get their hands on it. The Lake is one of David Field's projects. Don't expect Greg or Larry to stand in front of that bus. They have bigger fish to fry, including getting Star back on track, stabilizing Kiss and keeping their own assets out of the frying pan with the Spitzer-Universal pay-for-play situation. It's a lovely mess that observers enjoy watching because there is a soap-opera quality to it. Not to mention karma.


> In Charlotte WSOC-FM was in a similar position #1 in every
> book. They got some competition from another FM and it took
> a long time but now WSOC-FM is no longer the clear winner.
> The stations battle back and forth one is owned by Clear
> Channel and the other is owned by Infinity.
>
> I'm sure the advertisers looking for the country audience
> would like to have a second choice.
>
> MikeM
>
Good example cited, Mike. Advertisers are looking for 'reach' within a certain demo. WYRK, to its credit, reaches just about every demo, wide and deep. It's perpelexing to some that it reaches 18-34's far more efficiently than Kiss or Edge, two of Buffalo's primary 18-34 formats. It's hard to buy around WYRK not only because of its strong numbers, but more critically because Infinity has a reputation for dropping its pants at the slightest provocation. Rate integrity is not one of the Infinity cluster's strong suits.
 
Re: NUC-ed

> > 107.7 didn't work as country before because they just
> didn't
> > have the promotional dollars or enough "country
> > credibility".


The biggest reason that WNUC didn't work as country (although it did make some money) was at the ownership level. Not that John Casciani is a bad guy or anything because he's not, it was just that he had a tendancy to give priority treatment to the wrong people (i.e. a certain female afternoon 'personality' among others) who treated the place like a game instead of a business. It was a lot of people playing radio instead of working toward a common goal. That, and the fact that Casciani desperatley wanted it to be a Buffalo station instead of taking a more regional approach and targeting the people in the area best served by it's signal were some of the problems that the station had.
 
Mike,

Don't bother mentioning that even "trending downward," they still enjoy some of the best ratings ever seen at 107.7. But don't let the facts prevent you from dancing on their grave.

It seems that most of the folks here want to see The Lake fail just so they can say "I told you so." Failure has been predicted every step of the way, and yet the station has carved itself a sizable niche, a larger one than they ever had with more traditional mainstream formats.

God Forbid there is a station that doesn't play only 400 records, like a "good" classic rocker should. Just because it doesn't fit your jaundiced view of what listeners ought to like, you, and your PD wannabe's on this board, dump on it.

PTR

> > I can't find anyone that knows real facts but I heard the
> > WLKK call letters haven't been lucky in the Buffalo market
>
> > either. Here in ERIE I heard WLKK was flat in Buffalo.
> Dead
> > in the water. Have they trended down to a new low?
> >
>
> Sigh. We've beaten this issue to near death here.
>
> Check past posts from Sir Roxalot, Bob Smith and just about
> any regular on this board to get a summary of opinion. The
> station is what it is (man, that phrase has certainly become
> the flavor of the day, hasn't it.) Some love it, some are
> bored with it. Wallpaper. It hasn't knocked anybody's socks
> off. It's just there. Ratings are flat and in some cases,
> down. 97 Rock owns Men 25-54, every other station is a
> distant second, third, fourth or fifth. Marginal but
> adequate signal, uninspiring presentation, left of center
> promotions. It may be too hip for the market. One thing it's
> decidedly not is the old WPHD or WYSL-FM.
>
> Nine lines just abouts sums it up. Just an observation, but
> this station would seem to have more benefit for Entercom if
> it was country. That ain't gonna happen. WYRK is a runaway
> train.
>
 
Before You Accuse Me

> Mike,
>
> Don't bother mentioning that even "trending downward," they
> still enjoy some of the best ratings ever seen at 107.7.
> But don't let the facts prevent you from dancing on their
> grave.
>
> It seems that most of the folks here want to see The Lake
> fail just so they can say "I told you so." Failure has been
> predicted every step of the way, and yet the station has
> carved itself a sizable niche, a larger one than they ever
> had with more traditional mainstream formats.
>
> God Forbid there is a station that doesn't play only 400
> records, like a "good" classic rocker should. Just because
> it doesn't fit your jaundiced view of what listeners ought
> to like, you, and your PD wannabe's on this board, dump on
> it.
>
> PTR
>
WHAT in my initial post did you construe as GLEE over the Lake's present position? I thought I was objective in saying "the station is what it is."

It's there. If you LIKE it, enjoy it up to your heart's content. Clearly, there are some people who LIKE it. Like so many listeners, PTR, I sample stations for what they offer relative to my mood, needs and interests, from Hits FM, WYRK, Star and WJYE (less now because of Christmas music) to WBEN, 97 Rock, WHTT, WBFO and WGR. I'd like to think I do so as a listener, with no axe to grind since these days I'm putting up drywall, spackling and painting. Somedays my crew and I listen to a station for hours, other days we surf through half a dozen stations.

I am not vindictive by nature. Though I have strong opinions, I'll admit when I'm wrong. As to programming, I've never occupied that office during my career, but was APD in a few respectable medium markets. Like so many others, I've worked for good PD's and a few ineffective ones.

I resent your implication that I or anybody else who dares to pose a well-reasoned question or argument is "dancing on the station's grave" by suggesting there may be other avenues to success.

If generally accepted publications can be trusted, WLKK's ratings appear to be stronger than they ever were when the station was country and sports. For that, the staff and management deserve credit. But the fact is, the station has leveled-off. Check my past posts and you might notice that I gave this station more lattitude and grace than most regular posters. I believe my criticism has been reasonably stated and without malice.

Enough.
 
Re: Before You Accuse Me

Promo, the question was asked (by Mike704) why country didn't work on 107.7 considering the rural nature of it's primary pattern contours. That's what sparked the discussion. It evolved into a discussion about the unchallenged position that WYRK enjoys as the only viable FM country music outlet in Buffalo.

I doubt that The Lake will change formats soon. If they want to shore up their numbers, they need to tweak their format. The chirping birds and Mr. Prozac have become exceedingly tedious. They now have people on the air. Let them add a little spice to the programming and replace Mr. Prozac some of the time. I'm sure they're capable of concisely reading liners similar to Mr. Prozac's. Maybe even a mention of Impending Weather Doom would be appropriate when it's being blasted about on every other station.

Their position as the "big variety" station is being challenged by Jack. The "smart-aleck voice guy" on Jack is a lot hipper than Mr. Prozac. The Lake needs to tweak its format if it wants to stay in the game. They're established their music niche. Now they need to pay more attention to their delivery.
 
Re: Before You Accuse Me

I respectfully disagree with your assessment. I find the "Mr. Prozac" approach quite refreshing, and anything but tedious. In fact, I enjoyed the station even more when they had no DJ's at all.

Do you realize there are thousands of people who pay $$ each month to XM and Sirius so they can hear radio without the bells and whistles? I believe this board is populated with "radio geeks" and not radio listeners. Geeks are into all the things listeners care less about.

I was a PD for 14 years and I left the biz to start my own company. Having had 2 years to decompress, I find that I am listening like a listener again, and not a geek. Jingles, positioning statements, formats, blah-blah-blah...it's all noise. The geeks are rearranging the deck chairs while the Radio Titanic is nosing into the water.

PTR

> Promo, the question was asked (by Mike704) why country
> didn't work on 107.7 considering the rural nature of it's
> primary pattern contours. That's what sparked the
> discussion. It evolved into a discussion about the
> unchallenged position that WYRK enjoys as the only viable FM
> country music outlet in Buffalo.
>
> I doubt that The Lake will change formats soon. If they want
> to shore up their numbers, they need to tweak their format.
> The chirping birds and Mr. Prozac have become exceedingly
> tedious. They now have people on the air. Let them add a
> little spice to the programming and replace Mr. Prozac some
> of the time. I'm sure they're capable of concisely reading
> liners similar to Mr. Prozac's. Maybe even a mention of
> Impending Weather Doom would be appropriate when it's being
> blasted about on every other station.
>
> Their position as the "big variety" station is being
> challenged by Jack. The "smart-aleck voice guy" on Jack is a
> lot hipper than Mr. Prozac. The Lake needs to tweak its
> format if it wants to stay in the game. They're established
> their music niche. Now they need to pay more attention to
> their delivery.
>
 
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