WLNG

[RadioFixerCLE]

you mean Chuck Macken isn't reading those long endless sports scores and giving the precipitation percentages for the whole week anymore???

Hahahaha. Nope this guy was basically doing what sounded like old-time CBS-FM. Really tight stuff. P.S. Check your message box, I left you a note.

 

[radio124]

I wondered about WLNG overnights. I know Al Case has been in radio over 40 years so he's probably in his mid 60's. This man had been WGBB's chief engineer for many years in the 70's. It's doubtful that at this point he would want to work midnight to 6, six days a week and never take a day off. I also notice that a lot of features like weather, today in history are repeated hourly.

 

[SockHop921]

After reading for a couple years now the various messages on other boards from David Eduardo, I was wondering when he would wind up here. I knew it would only be a matter of time.

His messages for the most part are fairly correct in content. But it's from this content that his character and primary affiliations can be summized. He is a corporate manager. In a more precise yet less eloquent phrase, he is a company bean counter. This falls into the same category as PD's and GM's who, for the most part, lose sight of what the radio station is about. Mr. Eduardo makes no pretense in his comments to indicate that the sole purpose of a radio station is to make money. As typical management goes that par for the course. Personally, I happen to remember something about providing a service to the community.

This is where the divide lies between management and the creative personalities that make the station what it is. From a management point of view, the goal is to make money in whatever way one can. I have no problem with a station making money, but I am also a firm believer that ANY company should also try to provide a quality product for that money. PD's and GM's begin to lose their connection to the listeners they serve not soon after attaining the position. They become Arbitron slaves with blinders, unwilling to take even the slightest risk to try something that doesn't rock the collective thought process boat or pass the stamp of approval of the station insultant. They have the audacity to TELL you what you want to hear rather than ask and provide.

I can give one example that I remember vividly. At one of my former FM stations there were 2 two-line answering machines on the jock/request lines. (Requests on an insultant controlled station, what a joke) Each jock was given two outgoing message cassettes which were to be put in by the jock on air at the start of the shift. One afternoon a listener tried to call in with a serious traffic accident report and was greated by an answering announcement from a different jock than who was on the air (someone forgot to remove their tapes). That didn't go over well because afterwards he shot off a four page letter to the PD expressing his anger. The first page described the phone incident while the remaining three pages were devoted to a point by point (and correctly so) scathing criticism of our programming; ie, repeated songs over and over, commercials, songs played sped-up, etc. The PD decided to post this lengthy letter on the bulletin board with a note attached at the beginning saying "Everyone read." At the end of the letter was the clincher note..."please make sure your personal answering tapes are inserted." After reading three pages of a listeners complaint, the only issue he could see was the tape problem.

Mr Eduardo also stated in one of his posts in this thread: "WLNG does not have an oldtime appeal." I beg to differ with Mr. Eduardo but not only DOES it have that exact appeal, it is the primary reason I took my show there. The very nature of WLNG is nostalgia and oldtime appeal. I have yet to find another station that not only plays the music I want to hear but retains the ambiance of the era throughout its air product. If you think that is flawed, consider Scott Shannon's True Oldies Network. I can't listen to it. Nothing against Scott as a professional or a person, but I can't listen to stale, repeat 'em over and over oldies separated by buffers that sound like they were produced by a teenager down at the techno station. The elements don't blend. So it's more than just the music that brings out the appeal to our listeners. As we state, "it's what's between the records that counts!" and our audience seems to agree. So do I.

To sum it all up, Mr. Eduardo is serving radio in his finest capacity, as a corporate money man whose sole vision is to not lose sight of a single penny for the station(s) he runs. It's a job that must be done and Mr. Eduardo, by his ability to regurgitate facts, figures, numbers and statistics, is most likely a top-key man at that task. However a wider view of the overall picture is needed, and that's where the air and support staff do THEIR magic and balance out what would be a very bland business if left solely to corporate business suits trying to micro-manage stations from their yachts and liquid lunches.

And let's not lose sight of the fact that the station is there to serve it's community......making money is the by-product, not vice versa.

Mark Edwards
Sock Hop Saturday Night
WLNG

 

[davideduardo]

And let's not lose sight of the fact that the station is there to serve it's community......making money is the by-product, not vice versa.

I seem to answer one of these ablout every three months. All it proves is that American schools have long been doing a bad job of teaching basic economics.

A station can serve no one if it has no money. You must first have money to be able to serve. Many decades ago, this was why a new licencee had to show the ability to run a station the first year so they would be able to serve. Today, with so many media sources, theree is more of a laissez faire attitude but the fact still remains that only with income in excess of expenses permits a station to serve.

To sum it all up, Mr. Eduardo is serving radio in his finest capacity, as a corporate money man whose sole vision is to not lose sight of a single penny for the station(s) he runs.

As much as you are wrong about the economics of radio, you are even more wrong here. I am not a "money man" but, rather, I spend more than half my days "on the street" in our markets talking to and listening to the listeners themselves so our stations can serve them best.

It's a job that must be done and Mr. Eduardo, by his ability to regurgitate facts, figures, numbers and statistics, is most likely a top-key man at that task.

I love the sarcasm about "facts" as if it were somehow worng to know the nature of our audiences and of our station operations and markets. What you poke fun at is the equivalent of criticism of a chemist for knowing the periodic table of the elements.

However a wider view of the overall picture is needed, and that's where the air and support staff do THEIR magic and balance out what would be a very bland business if left solely to corporate business suits trying to micro-manage stations from their yachts and liquid lunches.

That's really funny. I know of practically no company that allows drinking during business hours. And I don't know anyone with a yacht, except a couple of morning talents, and I've been around this business for 48 years.

Radio is a combination of art and science and business. We can't do anything without income, though. Living in dreamland where good radio is a goal of itself does not help.

 

[fang39]

This arguement has been rehashed on various boards over the years and is one that will never be settled. I credit DE for having the courage of conviction to stand behind his statements, unlike other veteran posters. Like many, I don't always agree with him, but he provides an insight to the industry that most people who post on this site do not (and never will) have access to. That being said, he also is unyeilding in his belief that radio can only be run one way, regardless of format, and that's why his reactive posts are often such a lighting rod. All of us would like to believe we can do radio better/differently than the current convention, and be successful in doing so. But, until we have the opportunity to "put our money where our mouths are," we are relagated to debate in this forum.

 

[SockHop921]

Of course Mr. Eduardo missed my point entirely while Fang hit it right on the head. This discussion has been in debate on these boards for a long time, and in always the same fashion. Someone comes along and makes a casual and friendly comment about a station in a lighthearted style, then along comes Mr. Eduardo with a lengthy, point by point criticism and correction session about the original post (sounds just like a jock sitting through a PD tape review session, doesn't it?). Then we're off to the races with posts and reposts, all with the intent to suggest that Mr. Eduardo is the only one in the world who understands any and all concepts of radio and the rest of us are pretty much blithering idiots. MY POINT, although I took the high road to do so, was to simply say "here we go again." And to that end I want to express a TRUE, HEARTFELT "Thank you" to Mr Eduardo for proving me correct in every point; you are indeed a genius, sir, and what's better, a sure bet.

I also thought the notion that since no company authorizes drinking on the job implies it never happens was pretty comical too. NOW who lives in Fantasyland?

Mark Edwards
Blithering Idiot
Sock Hop Saturday Night
WLNG
(My final post on this endless topic)

 

[davideduardo]

Of course Mr. Eduardo missed my point entirely while Fang hit it right on the head. This discussion has been in debate on these boards for a long time, and in always the same fashion.

The point I am making is that commercial radio can serve nobody unless there is revenue to pay for "whatever" service is desigtnated or thought to be.

To say you missed that point is stating the obvious.

You simply have the formula backwards. Revenue creates the ability to serve. Even at a startup station, seed capital is only spent on money losing shows or stations until such time as they are able to carry their own weight, or they are changed.

Someone comes along and makes a casual and friendly comment about a station in a lighthearted style, then along comes Mr. Eduardo with a lengthy, point by point criticism and correction session about the original post

My main point about WLNG was that the accolades and bouquets of flowers being offered to its honor forget that the station is not unique, and that there are hundreds if not thousands of local stations in similarly very small markets across the US than are just as good, or, in their way, better. WLNG is a decent local station, but not a Picasso amongst 3rd grade drawings.

(sounds just like a jock sitting through a PD tape review session, doesn't it?).

You mean what the rest of the world calls "airchecking?" I suspect you don't get enough of that, and that your attitude prevents you from benfiting from the single most important part of career development in radio.

I also thought the notion that since no company authorizes drinking on the job implies it never happens was pretty comical too. NOW who lives in Fantasyland?

Compared to other eras, drinking by management and sales is significanly less than it was; there are liability issues and many companies will discipline proven drinking on the job, whether that job is on premisis or out on the street. Maybe your experience is different... I too can recall flasks by the dozens being found in the A/C ducts, or a full one ready for consumption in the toilet tank... but that was in the 70's.

 

[hipporadio]

Yes he’s back... D.E. has found this thread and given-reason to professionally-minimize the likes of even WLNG—“LONG” established as a “conversation piece” in the broader radio industry. I know – LOTS talk about this station, yet probably wouldn’t listen IF they lived within sight of the “Tall Tower”! But, simply put: This is a VERY FINE smaller-market station – operated by LOCAL OWNERSHIP since 1963, for a profit [imagine that] - and for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS attracting notice from their peers. NO [SORRY], it’s NOT because they’re in the Hamptons – it’s because they are an EXCEPTIONAL radio station - irregardless of their proximity to NYC, replication of former legendary formats there, and a 60dbu that covers the home of Stephen Spielberg.

D.E. quotes their revenue at “a mil”... WOW! ...In 1990, I owned four stations that [each] did a bit better then that – I never DREAMED that I was bettering WLNG in that era... Suffice to say, I’ll bet their revenue is a bit “north” of “a mil” [sorry “Humble-Hombre”]... He also casually-alludes to NorthWest MONTANA... I'VE BEEN THEREMANY TIMES - There IS NO WLNG in that locale! This is yet another example of SHAMELESS and SELF-PROMOTING corporate radio apology from its ultimate [10,000-post] POSTER-CHILD on this board... I’m really past LAUGHING at this crap! D.E. is the very reason we lament the bygone days and a better era in radio broadcasting... He IS their “Lap-Lab” and ultimate “apologist”... Certainly you mindfull folks have recognized that! D.E. - WHEN will you cease the excuses for what your industry has become [which is a shell of what it once WAS] and focus on your way out of this mess?

This is a tirade, I understand, and I apologize... I am “former radio”... The field I now draw a check from is one that contributes to D.E.’s sacred “budgets”... Do you know [D.E.] that “our faith in you is failing, son?” You have “kissed goodbye” your most loyal demo... You have managed the accolade of maneuvering the position of entertaining the FIRST youth demo since Fibber McGee & Mollie that DOESN’T relate to radio in their youth... Your entire “house of cards” is leveraged on an over-competed-for cadre of 40-year-olds that have grown tired of you McFormats and headed off to SAT, CDs, and even the [formerly] youthful iPod! And you come 10,000 times to this forum to criticize any form of concern or “art” – let alone the likes of small-market-iconic WLNG... I’m getting sick!

Do what you will... But leave WLNG alone!

 

[davideduardo]

Yes he’s back... D.E. has found this thread and given-reason to professionally-minimize the likes of even WLNG—“LONG” established as a “conversation piece” in the broader radio industry. I know – LOTS talk about this station, yet probably wouldn’t listen IF they lived within sight of the “Tall Tower”! But, simply put: This is a VERY FINE smaller-market station – operated by LOCAL OWNERSHIP since 1963, for a profit [imagine that] - and for TWENTY-FIVE YEARS attracting notice from their peers. NO [SORRY], it’s NOT because they’re in the Hamptons – it’s because they are an EXCEPTIONAL radio station - irregardless of their proximity to NYC, replication of former legendary formats there, and a 60dbu that covers the home of Stephen Spielberg.

To say WLNG is exceptional denigrates hundreds if not thousands of "equally exceptional" stations in Ludington, MI or Sydney, MT or Lake City, FL or Prescott, AZ or Powell, WY, that don't cover the $100,000,000 home of a movie producer. Paul Sidney and I were both members for at least a decade of the International Broadcasgters Idea Bank, and I can say that WLNG was defintiely a good station, but so were those of the other 99 members. Nobody annointed WLNG with holy oil.

I’ll bet their revenue is a bit “north” of “a mil”

This year it is probably going to be about $1.2 million. The LI market in general is very soft, so I am assuming zero growth for WLNG based on the '06 figure. Coming from a market where individual talents, GMs, PDs make that much in salary, this seems like a tiny amount to me.

[/quote]He also casually-alludes to NorthWest MONTANA... I'VE BEEN THEREMANY TIMES - There IS NO WLNG in that locale![/quote]

No, there may not be a WLNG because WLNG is uniquely Sag Harbor. But there are equivalents all over the US in similar small markets.

This is yet another example of SHAMELESS and SELF-PROMOTING corporate radio apology from its ultimate [10,000-post] POSTER-CHILD on this board... I’m really past LAUGHING at this crap! D.E. is the very reason we lament the bygone days and a better era in radio broadcasting... He IS their “Lap-Lab” and ultimate “apologist”... Certainly you mindfull folks have recognized that! D.E. - WHEN will you cease the excuses for what your industry has become [which is a shell of what it once WAS] and focus on your way out of this mess?

What a load of crap to defend you position, which seems only to be to take jabs at me. Listen again, con brio, to what I said: "To say WLNG is unique is to denigrate the many fine smaller market stations all across the US that serve their markets as well or, in some cases, better than WLNG.

This is a tirade, I understand, and I apologize... I am “former radio”... The field I now draw a check from is one that contributes to D.E.’s sacred “budgets”... Do you know [D.E.] that “our faith in you is failing, son?” You have “kissed goodbye” your most loyal demo... You have managed the accolade of maneuvering the position of entertaining the FIRST youth demo since Fibber McGee & Mollie that DOESN’T relate to radio in their youth... Your entire “house of cards” is leveraged on an over-competed-for cadre of 40-year-olds that have grown tired of you McFormats and headed off to SAT, CDs, and even the [formerly] youthful iPod! And you come 10,000 times to this forum to criticize any form of concern or “art” – let alone the likes of small-market-iconic WLNG... I’m getting sick!

I know, the end is near, repent, whatever.

Fact: 95% of all 12+ persons use radio weekly, only about a percent different than the first Arbitron books 40 years ago. And there are many alternatives for entertainment, so the amount of time spent with each is obviously going to fragment all types of entertainment. But the younger 18-34 demo is fine, thank you. Off a little in TSL, yes. But when I was 18 we had no local TV station, no cable, no VHS, no Walkman CF player, no PS2 or Wii or iPod or DVD player. No TiVo, no satellite tv, no satellite radio. Just the 42 local AM fulltimers... so we fought with each other (often literally... I had to have a bodyguard) instead of alternative media. But radio can be viable for decades, maybe more.

The average listener age at the 70 stations I work with is around 33 or 34. And we reach around 15 million listeners a week. What does that tell you about younger people and radio.

Quit awfulizing about radio. There is much to be proud of, but it is not the kind of radio we did 20 or 30 or 40 years ago. Thank goodness.

Do what you will... But leave WLNG alone!
[/quote]

 

[wgliradio]

Mark Edwards is good at what he does... connecting to listeners. But not every Cousin Brucie of the world can run radio stations and vice versa. Even those that did run radio stations don't understand the economics of an industry in trouble.

There are those who can connect on the air as engaging personalities and those who run the business aspects that allow the station to continue to operate so that the connection continues.

I think this person sees different posts and is having a flashback about the decisions at Service 6 which were all about cost cutting, many of which I did not agree with as well.

As someone who has worked both sides of the fence, WLNG is unique... as unique as the WWJB's and what was WNBZ and WTBQ and WGHT etc etc. Local radio at its best.

 

[herethere]

I can't believe this thread is still viable!

This weekend I've been out east, and listening to LNG. Not only are they playing Christmas music no one else would or could play, like Bobby Pickett's "Holiday Monster Mash", but Monday afternoon, Santa Claus will be on with the afternoon jock to take calls, and Xmas morning, Paul Sydney's doing on the air Christmas cards. Boy, as if they weren't already serving the community! This is no business argument; I'm just glad they're still there.

 

[pdwips]

DE says: "To say WLNG is exceptional denigrates hundreds if not thousands of "equally exceptional" stations..."

That's nonsense. I can compliment a woman on her beauty, without "denigrating" all other women.

Since when is it insulting to one exceptional station to note another's quality?

And by the way, sometimes the way to generate revenue is to serve your audience first. That's how you prove to an advertiser that his dollars are well spent. I have never been asked by a prospective advertiser what a station grosses. I have been asked whether their spots will be on a station that sounds great and is serving the community.

 

[davideduardo]

DE says: "To say WLNG is exceptional denigrates hundreds if not thousands of "equally exceptional" stations..."

That's nonsense. I can compliment a woman on her beauty, without "denigrating" all other women.

To say WLNG is unique, as some have done, means that the station is one of a kind. Yes, it is one of a kind in Suffolk County, NY. But it is not so on a national basis. The statements here have been to the effect that WLNG is vastly better than any other small market station in the nation, and that is just not so.

Since when is it insulting to one exceptional station to note another's quality?

And by the way, sometimes the way to generate revenue is to serve your audience first. That's how you prove to an advertiser that his dollars are well spent. I have never been asked by a prospective advertiser what a station grosses. I have been asked whether their spots will be on a station that sounds great and is serving the community.

I don't think anyone can disagree with you. Getting listeners is key to getting advertisers, unless you are brokered... But inside the industry, there are metrics such as billing that are used to measure the success of a station. And that is where the "chicken and egg" circular argument comes in: if there is no revenue you can not serve the community and if you don't serve (some part of the) community, there is no rvenue.

 

[wgliradio]

Even the Germans and British had a cease fire on Christmas Eve

Maybe if we start singing?

 

[fang39]

Even the Germans and British had a cease fire on Christmas Eve

So did Snoopy and The Red Baron!

 

[pdwips]

DE: Nice to see you at least acknowledge there's an "egg" in the equation. Heretofore your arguments have seemed rather 'chicken-centric."

As for your claim that calling LNG unique somehow takes away from others elsewhere, I still consider that specious. Every station is unique; I've listened all around the country and never heard another station that sounds just like WLNG. Besides, this is a Nassau/Suffolk board, is it not?

 

[RadioFixerCLE]

To say WLNG is unique, as some have done, means that the station is one of a kind. Yes, it is one of a kind in Suffolk County, NY. But it is not so on a national basis. The statements here have been to the effect that WLNG is vastly better than any other small market station in the nation, and that is just not so.

WLNG has its own unique style. Another great station in Suffolk Cty. is WRIV 1390. Both have their own identities, but I don't know which one would be "better" than the other. I guess it's matter of individual taste.

I think the comments regarding WLNG being better than many other smaller markets is because unfortunately a lot of small-town stations have been reduced to either leased-access (WGBB in Freeport, for instance), or just do automated programming like WALK 1370 in Patchogue.

WLNG is one of those few stations that still maintains a LOCAL presence. Just like WRIV does. The community knows the owners of WLNG and WRIV -- Paul Sidney and Bruce Tria -- and these owners LIVE and are part of the towns they serve. Listeners can just walk up to the stations during business hours and expect to find someone there to help them.

These men are not faceless corporations based from New York, in the case of WGBB; or Texas, in the case of WALK).

 

[DG02816]

Gotta give my props to WLNG; great signal for a Class A FM, and it WAS listenable in Southern RI when I went home last week.Love those synth-voice drops!Now, if we could get Dr. Yoon to sell WNYH to Paul Sidney, that would be a hoot: WLNG back on AM with a killer daytime signal. One can dream....

 

[tony marzocco]

Boy, when I started this WLNG hornet's nest Ronald Regan was president. Is "Billy Bob" Eduardo still posting on this subject; I just checked back in after a long holiday rest & LNG is still a hot topic? Jeez.