Maybe it is just me, but I am wondering if WLS has decreased their day time power. I use to be able to hear them a lot more clearly in the Milwaukee area, but now not so much. Does anyone know what is up? Thanks.
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WLS transmitter question.
- Thread starter StevenGastreich
- Start date
C
classic_rocker
Guest
If you live in brew town,then you have no business liStening to WLS. If you are from Chi town go back home....... p.s. What do Michael Jackson and the Chicago Cubs have in common?? They both wear gloves on one hand for no apparent reason ;D ;D GO BREWERS!!!!!!!
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chuckydoll
Guest
WLS is still 50 kw day and night
If you're not picking it up in Milwaukee it's for one of two reasons:
If you're not picking it up in Milwaukee it's for one of two reasons:
- You've got an AM receiver that's not designed to pull in distant signals. This is especially true on car radios now.
- The neighborhood around the 890 transmitter in Tinley Park (SSW of Chicago) has become more built up. ABC apparently slacked off on maintenance well before WLS was sold to Citadel.
I'm just back from ten days in the deep South. I noticed that WLS usually was the weakest of the "1-A" Chicago nighttime signals. Historically, it used to generally be the strongest. Theoretically, at least, you can't blame IBOC. Even WSCR, which regularly was being hammered by the Cubans, was stronger than WLS....true in AL, FL, and MS.
Well WNOV does run IBOC/HD Radio now. Most narrow-band receivers don't have problems with IBOC from a station 30 kHz away, but some of the more wideband radios (typically those that sound better with more treble) could pick up some of the IBOC hash from 860 when tuned to the relatively weak signal on 890.
I was driving through Milwaukee on Memorial Day and had to struggle through all sorts of noise while trying to listen to the excellent Big 89 Rewind. I don't believe any of the noise was from IBOC on my narrowband Blaupunkt -- The signal indeed seemed weaker than what I recall from years ago.
I was driving through Milwaukee on Memorial Day and had to struggle through all sorts of noise while trying to listen to the excellent Big 89 Rewind. I don't believe any of the noise was from IBOC on my narrowband Blaupunkt -- The signal indeed seemed weaker than what I recall from years ago.
Philip J. Smith said:
WNOV is running IBOC??? That's about the last station I'd expect to do that...
Agreed: in my experience 3rd adjacents - 30KHz separation - are very unlikely to suffer from IBOC interference. Too bad you can't say the same for 2nd adjacents!
Growing up in Waukesha Co. in the 1960s/1970s, WLS was always the wimpiest of the big Chicago signals. I always figured to a large degree it was because it was something like 25 miles further away.
Wasn't WMVP-1000 diplexing on the WLS tower for awhile while they worked on the AM-1000 array? Did they finish that work? (is it possible WMVP is still using the WLS antenna?) ISTR WLS had to reduce power during that operation to avoid exceeding the limits of some of the antenna system components.
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ddybas
Guest
The addition of an IBOC signal to a station tends to reduce the level of the analog audio a bit. Add to that the increasing amount of background noise being generated by all the new techie gizmo's, computers, etc and certainly all distant AM band signals will sound fuzzy compared to what they were in the 1960's.
Dr Dave
Dr Dave
I was listening shortly before 7PM Tuesday 7/3 on the Indiana Toll Road near Gary, Indiana. Car radio is an Infinity (Alpine) AM Stereo in a Chrysler "premium" sound package system and has a very nice response on the AM side. WLS analog audio was decidedly SOFT which sort of surprised me. Back home (South Bend) it is typically LOUD and competitive with the other 50KWs. Don't know of WLS was doing something different that evening or not. Assuming their CE monitors this board, it would be nice to get a response from Warren Shulz on his take on the IBOC "technology" and if it mirrors Tom Rays views.
WLS will never have as good of a signal into Wisconsin as WSCR, WGN and WBBM due to physical location in Tinley Park, IL (25 MI SW of Chicago) vs. Itasca, Elk Grove Village respectively ( Aprox. 25 MI NW of Chicago). The WSCR Itasca and WBBM, WGN Elk Grove sites are 40 miles closer to southern Wisconsin than WLS in Tinley Park. In addition, ground wave conductivity is better on 670, 720 and 780 Khz than the ground wave conductivity on 890 Khz.
Back in the late 70s, ABC wanted to move the WLS transmitter site to the Lombard / Glenn Ellyn area. The reason given at the time (30 years ago now) was that the areas north of downtown Chicago had a more difficult time picking up WLS due to ground wave absorption from the buildings downtown. The move never occurred probably due to zoning difficulties.
WMVP did diplex (daytime only) off the WLS stick in Tinely Park last summer on a limited number of days during WMVP's tower replacement project. WMVP's three shelf supporting towers were cut down and replaced with three slender guided towers. During the construction project the self supporting east most tower remained WMVP' s main transmitting tower at reduced power (25 KW day and 5KW at night). WMVP only diplexed off of WLS when it was deemed unsafe for the tower crew to work on the construction of the new guide towers. The old self supporting east tower at WMVP's sight was cut down after the new 3 guided tower array became fully operational. The WMVP tower replacement project was completed early in October 2006.
Back in the late 70s, ABC wanted to move the WLS transmitter site to the Lombard / Glenn Ellyn area. The reason given at the time (30 years ago now) was that the areas north of downtown Chicago had a more difficult time picking up WLS due to ground wave absorption from the buildings downtown. The move never occurred probably due to zoning difficulties.
WMVP did diplex (daytime only) off the WLS stick in Tinely Park last summer on a limited number of days during WMVP's tower replacement project. WMVP's three shelf supporting towers were cut down and replaced with three slender guided towers. During the construction project the self supporting east most tower remained WMVP' s main transmitting tower at reduced power (25 KW day and 5KW at night). WMVP only diplexed off of WLS when it was deemed unsafe for the tower crew to work on the construction of the new guide towers. The old self supporting east tower at WMVP's sight was cut down after the new 3 guided tower array became fully operational. The WMVP tower replacement project was completed early in October 2006.
I was in Milwaukee yesterday (July 4), and the WLS signal indeed sounded "tired". For reasons stated in the last post, I've known for a long time that WLS's signal in Beertown will never be as good as its three 50kw Chicago counterparts lower on the dial.
I'll go so far as to say that WLS seemed a tad weaker than in the past, but I'm not really sure if that's true. Aside from the IBOC issue (WNOV?...really?), it may just be that I was in an area where there's more man-made noise/obstruction than in the past. Or it could be that the electrical system in my car is starting to get a little funky. WMVP wasn't really any better, and the three blowtorches...while clearly stronger...weren't exactly knocking my socks off up on the NW side of town. (WIND was its usual modest, but reasonably clear, self).
So who knows?
I'll go so far as to say that WLS seemed a tad weaker than in the past, but I'm not really sure if that's true. Aside from the IBOC issue (WNOV?...really?), it may just be that I was in an area where there's more man-made noise/obstruction than in the past. Or it could be that the electrical system in my car is starting to get a little funky. WMVP wasn't really any better, and the three blowtorches...while clearly stronger...weren't exactly knocking my socks off up on the NW side of town. (WIND was its usual modest, but reasonably clear, self).
So who knows?
Yes, WNOV was running IBOC when I came through Milwaukee on Memorial Day. 850 and 870 were a "mess."
Philip J. Smith said:
Are you *sure* that wasn't coming from someone else's IBOC? (are you sure that the interference *was* IBOC?) WLS would have been responsible for IBOC sidebands on 870. Dunno about 850.
The Ibiquity website doesn't list WNOV; the FCC CDBS doesn't show WNOV as having notified for hybrid digital; and there's nothing about HD on the WNOV website. I was up there two weeks ago & don't recall hearing IBOC sidebands anyplace they hadn't been before.
None of this is conclusive proof they aren't digital... but it just seems awfully unlikely.
(for those of you who are actually in Chicago... WNOV is the smallest AM station in Milwaukee, a 250-watt daytimer on 860.)
WNOV is not a daytimer. For a number of years they've been operating it night on "miniscule" power....something like five watts or thereabouts. Daytime is non-directional, so they actually have a pretty respectable signal throughout the Milwaukee metro. Before the advent of WCPT and its predecessors on 850, they were clearly audible in the Northern reaches of the Chicago area. At night the signal (also non-directional) is pretty well confined to the Milwaukee inner city....which basically is the area of interest for them. They seem to be pretty much a local community-oriented operation, and its hard to imagine them with IBOC. But hey....anything's possible.
There is no HD signal from 860 WNOV, but there is one from 920 WOKY which is Clear Channel.
...has the infamously lax maintainence of either WLS' or WMVP's transmitter sites improved at all in the last few years? Both used to boom into Northeastern Wisconsin around the clock, but the last time I was up there ('98), neither one of them were audible (and only the WLS carrier signal could be sensed at all) before sunset...
D
ddybas
Guest
...has the infamously lax maintainence of either WLS' or WMVP's transmitter sites improved at all in the last few years?
Neither station is Lax in their transmitter maintenance, though the reception issue may leave you with that impression. The reception problem has to do with the increase in background noise from all the new microprocessor based appliances. The WLS and WMVP signal is the same strength, the background noise is just stronger these days.
Neither station is Lax in their transmitter maintenance, though the reception issue may leave you with that impression. The reception problem has to do with the increase in background noise from all the new microprocessor based appliances. The WLS and WMVP signal is the same strength, the background noise is just stronger these days.
So here we have a 50kw non-directional clear channel primary station toward the bottom of the dial that has signal problems which didn't used to exist! What does that say about the over 4000 lesser signals out there? Will the noise continue to get worse? This sounds like an excellent argument for full digital HD on AM and the sooner the better!
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