WLW IBOC Grinder Back ON!

[almaniac27]

I'm sure someone at WLW must be smart enough to know that their IBOC NOISE rips up WOR at night and GUESS WHAT... WOR's IBOC NOISE Rips up WLW at the same time.

Call it whatever you want ... It's Mutually Assured Interference!

As close as Columbus WOR's interference can be heard on WLW. Get 30-40 miles east into WLW's cancellation zone and there are nights when it's very hard to WLW clearly.

In the Kent area (northeast of Akron) WLW comes in very well most nights, but there will be brief periods of time where WOR's hash butts in. Normally WLW wins.

 

[glieb]

Even though I stirred the pot on this, if you think I'm going to take up my sword and start defending AM IBOC like an idealog, I'm NOT! I agree with several of the OTHER points made here about the non-viability of AM IBOC, i.e. no receivers, poor decoding, and a few other reasons I have as well. I have just never bought into the 'hash myth', because if it involves people listening to AM outside of the immediate primary coverage area, and there's too little of that to be of any significance any more.

 

[jterhar]

AM and FM aren't the same. FM uses a 75 microsecond preemphasis and it cuts off at about 15 kHz to avoid interfering with the pilot at 19 kHz. AM uses 50 microsecond with audio out to, at one time, 10 kHz with a filter to lessen adjacent channel interference. Now, with AM HD, the cut off is at 5 kHz. I don't think an FM processor will help too much on AM. Even at that, the person setting up the processing will have to exert restraint on the amount of compression. He would have to fight the program director (if there is one) and the regional group chief.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Tom, Your comment about being able to pick out the DX stations in between the locals validates the point I've always made about the "hash" myth --that it only matters to us radio geeks, the general publiic doesn't even notice. If they did, there would have been Arbitron data out the wazoo about "turned off" listeners when they implemented IBOC. I have a dozen or so radios in my home and car of various age and bandwidths and there is only one that I can think of that exhibits any trace of "hash" and that's only when I'm tuning it from another station. Once on WLW we don't notice it at all. Once we accept the fact that the majority of of listeners are no longer "AM DXing" this becomes a non-issue.

Tell that to Bob Savage, whose radio station WYSL in Rochester gets interference from WBZ's hash at night within his listening area.

Even if the hash is a non-issue for most people, I think we can all agree that it's a big waste of money to buy and operate the HD transmitting equipment when there are probably 8 people with HD radios in Cincinnati.

Bob Savage had to buy an FM translator just so WYSL could be adequately receivable in the Rochester market. I do know he filed a complaint to the FCC directly aimed at CBS for the interference from WBZ/1030, but I doubt it will ever get anywhere.

Even if the IBOC HD Cabal (iBiquity and subsidizers CC, CBS and Entercom) gets forcibly broken up, the damage to the AM band is irreversible. It's all about the $$$$ that has propped up such a failed product, that even Best Buy has to grimace because they have to stock HD Radio sets that never sell.

Either you don't want HD AM Radio, or you don't know what HD AM Radio is. Thank the NAB for ruining AM radio for good.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Actually HD is standard equipment on several BMW models, has been since 09. I took delivery of a 2010 5 series last year and when I was getting the tour of the car at delivery the fella who goes over the car with you showed the HD radio and said and I quote "its pretty much useless, you'll hardly use it since you have XM free for a year, but I have to show you the sub channels and how it works and tell you what it is"> He was right, I hardly ventured into the sub channels, and all it did was piss me off when on the fringe and the radio would keep switching back from digital to analog. I have since traded off the aforementioned BMW, didn't really like the car after I had it for a few thousand miles; so I bought a new 2011 Toyota and it DID NOT come with HD, was't even an option.

I betcha the Best Buy folks feel the same way as that BMW salesman. Besides, the BMW brass probably don't know the first thing about HD Radio, and blindly took the check from iBiquity to make the feature standard.

 

[davideduardo]

Either you don't want HD AM Radio, or you don't know what HD AM Radio is. Thank the NAB for ruining AM radio for good.

AM was effectively on death watch in January of 1967 when the end of simulcasting for fulltime AMs with FMs was mandated. By 1977, half the audience was on FM. A last chance would have been FM stereo, but that was held up for about 5 years due to litigation, and by then FM had the entire music position.

Many markets were "gifted" with multiple move ins or upgrades by Docket 80-90, giving more alternatives on FM and even less reason to listen to AM. And as markets have grown geographically, most AMs don't even cover the whole market day and night. There are less than 200 such viable AMs in the entire top 100 US markets.

People who applied for defective AMs knew what they were getting.

Today, AM is unknown or unused by two generations, and about 60% of the audience is over 55, which has no sales value. In some markets the under-50 AM audience is around 5% of the total for radio.

 

[Rusty Muck]

Either you don't want HD AM Radio, or you don't know what HD AM Radio is. Thank the NAB for ruining AM radio for good.

AM was effectively on death watch in January of 1967 when the end of simulcasting for fulltime AMs with FMs was mandated. By 1977, half the audience was on FM. A last chance would have been FM stereo, but that was held up for about 5 years due to litigation, and by then FM had the entire music position.

Many markets were "gifted" with multiple move ins or upgrades by Docket 80-90, giving more alternatives on FM and even less reason to listen to AM. And as markets have grown geographically, most AMs don't even cover the whole market day and night. There are less than 200 such viable AMs in the entire top 100 US markets.

People who applied for defective AMs knew what they were getting.

Today, AM is unknown or unused by two generations, and about 60% of the audience is over 55, which has no sales value. In some markets the under-50 AM audience is around 5% of the total for radio.

Indeed, what is keeping the AM band alive right now in terms of any ratings or listener-ship is talk radio. Had that format never come into existence, the US easily would have joined Canada in pulling the plugs on AM stations throughout the country. So... why waste millions and millions of dollars on a technology that will show no discernable gain for a spoken word format?

Maybe I'd be generous in letting HD on FM to proceed, but the AM band would have been totally left alone. Then, the strongest AM stations can make the move to the FM dial if needed.

When WLW makes the move to FM in a few years, and they eventually will, you can finally stick a fork in AM for good.

 

[davideduardo]

Indeed, what is keeping the AM band alive right now in terms of any ratings or listener-ship is talk radio. Had that format never come into existence, the US easily would have joined Canada in pulling the plugs on AM stations throughout the country.

And Canada tried to artificially bolster AM by not allowing high rotations on FM, meaning no Top 40 or top-40 mechanics on FM. Still, Canada realized that the increasing noise levels on AM and the perceived and real superiorities of FM had reached a point where AM could not be kept on life support.

Mexico is moving the vast majority of its AMs to FM, and many counties around the world, from Jamaica and most of the Windward Islands to several European nations have removed all or all but just a few AMs.

 

[DouglasB]

The harmonics are set up to be basically an FM station on the AM band.

Wow, where can I get some of the these "harmonics" and can someone help me set them up??

 

[NoWayNoCC]

When WLW makes the move to FM in a few years, and they eventually will, you can finally stick a fork in AM for good.

There's no room for WLW on FM though. That is, unless they change their format.

 

[microbob]

I can't imagine CC dumping WEBN for WLW-FM or for that matter KISS 107 in 2011.