WMGK 102.9 FM Adult Contemporary format from 1975 to 1994: your thoughts

[Those RRRRs]

But just because there’s a few of us around who would welcome that kind of format back to the air, that doesn’t mean it’s viable now. It had its place in a world without the Internet, without 24-hour news channels and much more robust local TV news offerings. Before people grew more accustomed to the “I want what I want, when I want it, with no interruptions or delays” model of entertainment.

With all due respect, Mr. HomerJay, I couldn't disagree with you more. The "I want what I want when I want it" mentality doesn't necessarily apply to those who would tune it Standards type of format. Conversely, that type of mentality is usually held by the yutes with their ipods, video games, and collection of hard-core rap and/or rock music.

Personality driven radio was very successful until a couple of years ago on WPEN and would still be viable today. Corporations aren't interested in ENTERTAINING an audience with format A and accepting X amount of profit when they can SELL format B and potentially double their investment.

Is it wrong? That's not for me to decide, but welcome to stock-driven corporate America. You should know that Mr. HomerJay...you are a very intelligent liberal.

After all, everyone knows that so long as Joe Sixpack and Suzy SUV keep pouring their monopoly money into the stock market, eventually the bottom will HAVE to fall out. And then, the evils of capitalism will be exposed and the government will finally be able to redistribute income.

Then, and only then, will the super highway connecting Mexico to Canada be built, and the government can seize WPEN and turn it into a 5,000,000 watt power house, to which fine folks can listen while making the trek from San Juan to Montreal.

Eveyone knows that by the time this takes place, any land within 1000 miles of the equator will be too hot to inhabit, and Joe and Suzy will be able to listen to the smooth sounds of Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra inbetween Al Gore's voicetracked back-sells in which he so eloquently says, "I told you so."

 

[Those RRRRs]

*Tijuana to Montreal.

 

[imhomerjay]

With all due respect, Mr. HomerJay, I couldn't disagree with you more. The "I want what I want when I want it" mentality doesn't necessarily apply to those who would tune it Standards type of format. Conversely, that type of mentality is usually held by the yutes with their ipods, video games, and collection of hard-core rap and/or rock music.

Harly a yute here, but my iPod is with me every day. Not a shred of hard-core rap to be heard on it, but the point is more that iPods and video games are hardly the domain of only the young. My father in law, even less of a yute than me, listens to an iPod.

Personality driven radio was very successful until a couple of years ago on WPEN and would still be viable today.

Successful?

Not especially. The trend was unmistakbly, and unchangingly, downward. It's tempting to look at today's sports talk numbers and compare them to the later days of the standards format. However, such a comparison ignores all other realities and circumstances--number one among them being the audience for WPEN as a standards station continued to die off day by day, year by year. Certainly there will always be some interest in the format, but as the audience for whom it was the music of their lives ages and passes on, that remaining interest won't be sustainable as a format.

Corporations aren't interested in ENTERTAINING an audience with format A and accepting X amount of profit when they can SELL format B and potentially double their investment.

You may always find some people/companies/corporations who are willing to take the smaller payout for the love of whatever format A is, and I tip my hat to those people. However, the desire to make a better return on the investment you've made is what drives capitalism.

Is it wrong? That's not for me to decide, but welcome to stock-driven corporate America. You should know that Mr. HomerJay...you are a very intelligent liberal.

While I thank you for the compliment, what I am is more of an independent/libertarian. I want the government out of people's personal lives, not legislating one set of religious beliefs/principles. I'm quite capable of following my own beliefs and worshipping in my chosen church without the state dictating that everyone else should abide by those general values.

I also don't believe in the level of government regulation on free enterprise that we've seen over the decades. For the sake of a broadcasting discussion forum, that would mean the FCC meddling in things where it should have no place. Beyond policies regulating the most basic use of spectrum space (i.e., assigning licenses, and not regulating who can own how many stations) to manage a collective public resource, we don't need Kevin Marin and his ilk playing morality police. Save us all the tax money and cut the FCC down to nothing more than a couple of people working out of a closet--that's about all the Consitutional authority they really have.

After all, everyone knows that so long as Joe Sixpack and Suzy SUV keep pouring their monopoly money into the stock market, eventually the bottom will HAVE to fall out. And then, the evils of capitalism will be exposed and the government will finally be able to redistribute income.

Then, and only then, will the super highway connecting Mexico to Canada be built, and the government can seize WPEN and turn it into a 5,000,000 watt power house, to which fine folks can listen while making the trek from San Juan to Montreal.

Eveyone knows that by the time this takes place, any land within 1000 miles of the equator will be too hot to inhabit, and Joe and Suzy will be able to listen to the smooth sounds of Tony Bennett and Frank Sinatra inbetween Al Gore's voicetracked back-sells in which he so eloquently says, "I told you so."

Well, Al did invent radio, didn't he?

 

[VeteranPD]

Ah, Magic Music..the legacy of Julian Breen (R.I.P.) I loved it. My old friend Bob Leonard was one of the original jocks there. The Jam jingles were terrific, designed to mimic certains groups and artists played in the format.
The music was matched flow, the commercial sets short and well placed and spaced. Jocks were required to start commericals at a level about 6 or 7 dB down and then pull up to full so as to not jar listeners. Julien was said to be a real task master, but Magic was a warm, elegant ac with a plan.
I also fondly remember Popular 102,later, Alex DeMers wonderful WIOQ and the Jim Nettleton programmed WUSL as U.S.1 which was a little more MORish than Magic as I recall.
WIP was the blue print for personality MOR, a la sister WNEW. Dean Tyler was the PD behind it.
WPEN's first try at oldies under PD Peter Mokover and Julian Breen was great fun to listen to with Loren Owens in the morning and Bobby "Dashboard" Dark in PM drive. Again, wonderful jingles by Jam and super audio processing. Every channel on the McCurdy board had some level of compression using what was called "gain brain" circuitry.
I remember talking with Julian years ago and asked him what he though was the failure of WPEN.... In typical Breen fashion he said to me something like, "Well, the move to fm by listeners didn't help us. I researched the XXXX out of it and it went on it's XXX anyway."

 

[oaktree]

But as J. Breen said, too, for oldies 95/PEN back then, "WPEN had its fans ... just not enough of them."

I remember now that Bobby "Dashboard" Dark did afternoons at 95/PEN. If memory serves, wasn't that Mitch Hill from Wilmington? He reminded me a lot of Kris Erik Stevens at 'LS. Talent and pipes to match. I remember when he started WMPH-FM, a high school station in Wilmington. Best station in the city then...35 watts and all. (or close to it.)

 

[oaktree]

And the jingles were "Back Seat Music" by Jam. On the air today on XM... It was Jam's first ever "custom" ID package back then. "Magic" was quickly next and both put Jam on the jingle map...before they showed up on WABC. The rest is jingle history...

 

[GlennSummers]

What a great thread and trip down memory lane...I can still hear Loren Owens saying "95 P-E-N, plays 'em again" and Bruce Eric Smallwood's spin on the news...people going to the "hooskow" and the threat of "THUNDERshowers." And the JAM jingles were so good I still find myself singing them every now and then. I used that same package at WZIP in Daytona Beach, and they sounded just as good there.
Thanks for bringing this to the board.
Does anyone remember WIP's "We Play Your Songs" jingles? Barry Manilow based and pretty good as well. I forget the production company, but I have a demo with Bruce Holberg providing commentary between cuts.

 

[oaktree]

The "We Play Your Song" jingles were done in Dallas by Clio Award winner Otis Connor of the Otis Connor Company. He would also produce packages for KNX "All You Need To Know" (CBS, LA) and KCBS "Did You Hear The News" (SF) as well as other great series. I believe he also did an oldies package piloted in Washington, D.C. for Bill Drake that was a hit. Classy and well received. Otis raised the bar for radio jingles, but his first love was commercials. His sales director, Steve Gustafson, does the same now for Tony Griffin in Dallas. Great sound and people.

 

[csp-1]

this topic ... the responses ... make , in my opinion , the kind of thing that makes radio-info such a great board !!!!!!

 

[oaktree]

Nice comment, c.s.p. Thanks.

 

[Those RRRRs]

Harly a yute here, but my iPod is with me every day. Not a shred of hard-core rap to be heard on it

Good stuff...but surprising to me! I know in the past you vehemently defended rap music and suggested that perhaps racism played a part in the condemnation of it by others in this forum. I wouldn't have been surprised at all to have seen an "IMHMRJAY" license plate on the back of a boom-box on wheels. But if you say rap doesn't exist in your iPod, than I'm in no position to doubt you.

My father in law, even less of a yute than me, listens to an iPod.

Sounds like dad is pretty hip! Good for him. I don't have a breakdown of the data, but I estimate that he is probably an exception to the "rule."

The trend was unmistakbly, and unchangingly, downward. Certainly there will always be some interest in the format, but as the audience for whom it was the music of their lives ages and passes on, that remaining interest won't be sustainable as a format.

You're right. I didn't believe that such a time was upon us already so in order to rebut your claim I researched the number of successfully programmed standards stations in the United States today. According to what I found, there are only about 200 such stations that exist, and most of these stations use a satellite type of format such as "Stardust" or "Timeless Classics" rather than try to program the format on a local level.

The question that still remains in my mind is which format is more profitable. A lowly rated sports station or a syndicated standards station with higher ratings? Some here have claimed that GM is making a "killing" on this new format even with the low ratings. I haven't been able to find data on the number of sports stations in the United States and how many are syndicated vs. how many are programmed locally.

Hopefully Mr. Brusstar comes across this post and has that information readily available at his fingertips for our benefit and consideration.

You may always find some people/companies/corporations who are willing to take the smaller payout for the love of whatever format A is, and I tip my hat to those people.

Very well said. So do I.

While I thank you for the compliment, what I am is more of an independent/libertarian.

Oops. I apologize if I insulted you by classifying you as a lib. (And if you aren't a lib, such classification had to have been insulting) Past posts of yours convinced me that you were liberal.

A libertarian is more concerned with advocating principles of individual liberty...especially those principles involving freedom of thought and action. Good stuff. Conversely, principles that govern a liberal include levying higher taxes on hard-working individuals such as you and me and giving those monies to people who don't deserve it.

Save us all the tax money and cut the FCC down to nothing more than a couple of people working out of a closet--that's about all the Consitutional authority they really have.

Absolutley correct about that one. We haven't always agreed, Mr. HomerJay, but in my opinion you are probably the best spoken and canniest person I've seen on this board. Even when we disagree, you make me seriously consider your position(s). Thank you.

Well, Al did invent radio, didn't he?

This is where we part ways, Mr. HomerJay. Everyone knows that Marconi invented the radio. It was Al who invented internet radio. I thought you were smarter than that.

Always a pleasure. Have a good day!

 

[imhomerjay]

Always a pleasure. Have a good day!

And the same to you--it is one of the highlights of these boards to be able share ideas, and even to have (sometimes)heated disagreements, with people who hold a wide range of views.

That and nearly rolling on the floor laughing at the idea of me driving a boombox on wheels. Aerosmith's greatest hits is loaded in the CD player now...does that qualify me as driving a boom box?

 

[Jul]

What prompted Greater Media to drop the format in 1994?

 

[Captain Obvious]

What prompted Greater Media to drop the format in 1994?

I think they went to an all 70's station for a year. Then when YSP switched to hard rock, MGK went to classic rock.

Not sure if thats the answer you are looking for though.

 

[imhomerjay]

What prompted Greater Media to drop the format in 1994?

Simple--they were long-since beaten in the AC game, becoming more of an also-ran to 101 as time went on. The "All '70s" fad was catching on, so there was an opportunity to do something different than being "that other station" playing soft rock.

 

[ErieDJGuy]

Anyone know what became of David Lankford after WMGK?

Reason I've been asking in the 'Where Are They Now" thread for several months, he gave me much useful advice as I began my 20 year career in the 70's.

 

[yocco]

THe station in Philly who could pull this off is OGL. They already have great personalities in place. It would be more of a matter of changing the music mix..ala WHTT in Buffalo, and adding in news updates at the TOH. With access to news folks at KYW and WPHT, they could pull this off without any extra hires. I'd much rather see something like this happen to WOGL that putting on Fresh. It would also be "fresh" to get news updates on FM besides just in AM drive. Of course, this will never happen with that idiot at the Top of Infinity calling the shots.

 

[amfmsw]

You mean they HAD great personalities. Cannon, Nettleton and Springfield are gone. Don saw the handwriting on the wall and quit while he was ahead (but not at the top of his game...that was WIBG).

 

[WTUX]

News at TOH other than morning drive? R&R had an article on this several years ago.

In the aftermath of 9/11, many AC and Oldies stations did this. Most stopped it when listener complaints mounted. Seems most people are uninterested in what's going on - they just want entertainment. So why spend extra money on news in mid-days and afternoon drive when listeners will just switch stations because the news is a turn-off?

 

[imhomerjay]

There’s a throwback element to hear TOH news on a music station, like WKXW on the weekends (and that works in part because it’s a familiar element of the talk format), but think about what the larger number of average, non-radio-geek listeners would want.

Go back to WIP’s heyday, and there was no Internet, no 24-hour cable TV news (let alone ones targeted just to weather, finance, headlines, etc) and less news on broadcast TV. Hourly newscasts made sense then, but now a typical office worker can pick whatever news they want when it fits their schedule or through personal pages. CNN, FOX, CNBC, Drudge, ESPN…not to mention getting news via your cell phone or Blackberry, etc. It's not that all people are necessarily uninterested in being informed, but they have other ways to get it.

Then there’s the interruption factor. If you use radio as background music, top of the hour newscasts in addition to your regular spot breaks are one more reason to punch out and not come back. And again, you have countless Internet sources for music vying for your ears, not to mention satellite, iPods…probably in some offices even the Music Choice channels if your office is wired for cable.

Any of us can come up with a possible listener profile for a full service station, but the real-world numbers of those folks wouldn’t be that large.