F
feeball
Guest
Will this increase their overall numbers or will this have results similar to the Free FM concept?
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I wonder about that, because this was probably precipated by an obligation to keep Bob and Tom on the station lineup. If they didn't have that... then Maria would still be on the midday shift then, no?
No other station has ever gone the hot talk route on an all-day basis, and certainally not in the Free FM disaster. (I would maintain then that there is no analog in the market to compare WMMS to.) Rover's audience will certainally migrate over to WMMS. Hell, it withstood the move to Chicago - which was an epic blunder all around for both Rover and CBS! WMMS will never recoup the numbers Jeff and Flash had in 1987, but this will be an increase for them regardless.
Add to that Maxwell's audience, which isn't going anywhere, and the new WMMS should do decently.
Keep in mind the fact that B&T sliding over to middays will be THE weakest link on the station. It depends on how long they will stick with them in that position. Moveover, if B&T are eventally replaced, does music come back into middays... or will they go with talk at that time.
Still, a lot of people are going to listen to 100.7 tomorrow morning, and that's what you want...
-Myron aka nate81-
No other station has ever gone the hot talk route on an all-day basis, and certainally not in the Free FM disaster. (I would maintain then that there is no analog in the market to compare WMMS to.) Rover's audience will certainally migrate over to WMMS. Hell, it withstood the move to Chicago - which was an epic blunder all around for both Rover and CBS! WMMS will never recoup the numbers Jeff and Flash had in 1987, but this will be an increase for them regardless.
Add to that Maxwell's audience, which isn't going anywhere, and the new WMMS should do decently.
Keep in mind the fact that B&T sliding over to middays will be THE weakest link on the station. It depends on how long they will stick with them in that position. Moveover, if B&T are eventally replaced, does music come back into middays... or will they go with talk at that time.
Still, a lot of people are going to listen to 100.7 tomorrow morning, and that's what you want...
-Myron aka nate81-
With all the conversation about Rover going to WMMS and B&T tape delayed to days--hasn't everyone missed the point? After 40 (?) years, WMMS is giving up and is no longer a credible rock station? I understand that J. Washington could miss that---but many of you seem too sharp to not catch the significance.
It's official - Blo Matthews has ruined WMMS and sh*t on the history of the legendary station as well. Congrats, Bo. You took down a legendary station.
richwithhatred said:
If blame has to go around, there are a number of people. Past program directors Jim Trapp, Greg Aschum, Bob Newmann, Rich Piombino and Mike Luczak all did their damage one way or another. And so has Methany, who hired Bo.
You can also blame Malrite higher-ups Milton Maltz, Gil Rosenwald and Jim Wood back in the 1980s... much of the degeneration of WMMS can be traced back to that timeframe, when the core of the programming department (Gorman, Sanders, Foti, et al) all left. Due to that alone, it led to Piombino (who took WMMS to AOR) and Luczak (who failed to stave off Stern's impact in the market when he had the change, not to mention taking the station in a totally blah direction) doing what they did.
Some of the recent decisions I do wonder about, if Bo actually had ANY say whatsoever in at all. First, when the Buzzard was retired last September, it finally stripped the last vestiges of the station's former identity. But was it just HIS decision, or did CC - or even Methany - not want to keep it? And taking us back to the Route 66-ripoff WMMS logo, was that done solely by CC or Methany?
And again, was B&T mandated to stay on the station due to corporate? I betcha if they weren't obligated to keep it on, Bo would still have Maria on in the 11a-3p shift. Without a doubt.
Bo can hardly be blamed. In Gorman's own words, WMMS became "just another rock station" by the late 80s, and IMHO, was already taken down by the "death of the Buzzard" stunt in 1998. For ten years, it needed a final push.
-Myron aka nate81-
D
donewithit
Guest
So that being said, maybe KRock and WNCX come out of this with a win---they're the only rock stations still standing. While it's true that they lose Rover and his audience, they also lose a ton of salary and the risk that goes along with carrying a show like that.
Clevelanders who want to listen to music should head over to those two stations.
Clevelanders who want to listen to music should head over to those two stations.
Some of the posts in this thread made me laugh.
WMMS has been on life support for YEARS. You can blame the endless cycle of PD's Morning shows, musical direction, but the single biggest moment in the death of "The Buzzard" was the ballot scandal. Sounds corny, but in the 70s and 80s, before society entered the current cynical cycle, people believed what they heard on the radio, #1!?! Sure!
The piss poor rock product of the last 10 years hasn’t helped either.
Make no mistake, talk is the best opportunity for WMMS to survive and it will work. Maxwell has been pulling some great numbers, and with Rover the station will continue to grow. Imagine sitting in the Oak Tree sales department with a list on WMMS, your mood has suddenly improved.
Oddly, I haven’t heard any of the Danny Wright or Scott Howitt defenders, (both great jocks BTW) who use the reasoning they were excused to save triv’s ratings on 1100. Look at recent history. Maxwell has been slowly cutting into Triv’s numbers. If the conspiracy nuts are correct, CC would have to fire Maxwell to protect Triv.
Why haven’t they done this?
The bottom line is with 5 stations, you’d rather have all 5 in the top five rather than just one. Changing a famous quote somewhat, it’s economics stupid.
If you have low ratings here’s a tip, stop playing records.
WMMS has been on life support for YEARS. You can blame the endless cycle of PD's Morning shows, musical direction, but the single biggest moment in the death of "The Buzzard" was the ballot scandal. Sounds corny, but in the 70s and 80s, before society entered the current cynical cycle, people believed what they heard on the radio, #1!?! Sure!
The piss poor rock product of the last 10 years hasn’t helped either.
Make no mistake, talk is the best opportunity for WMMS to survive and it will work. Maxwell has been pulling some great numbers, and with Rover the station will continue to grow. Imagine sitting in the Oak Tree sales department with a list on WMMS, your mood has suddenly improved.
Oddly, I haven’t heard any of the Danny Wright or Scott Howitt defenders, (both great jocks BTW) who use the reasoning they were excused to save triv’s ratings on 1100. Look at recent history. Maxwell has been slowly cutting into Triv’s numbers. If the conspiracy nuts are correct, CC would have to fire Maxwell to protect Triv.
Why haven’t they done this?
The bottom line is with 5 stations, you’d rather have all 5 in the top five rather than just one. Changing a famous quote somewhat, it’s economics stupid.
If you have low ratings here’s a tip, stop playing records.
O
OhReally?
Guest
JoeJammin said:
Uhh...some of us noticed it loooonnnng before this move. :
O
OhReally?
Guest
John Baylor said:
Much of corporate radio's "thinking" is completely different than several years ago. Alot of things they "thought" could work failed miserably and are still trying to climb out of some of the rubble.
OhReally? said:JoeJammin said:
Uhh...some of us noticed it loooonnnng before this move. :
Oh, yeah.
Like I said eariler, the WMMS of old ceased to be back in 1998. And certainally ceased to be a credible rock station right at the end of the NextGen Buzzard era. And as John Baylor said (and I forgot to mention), it REALLY lost its' impact on the market after the ballot scandal of 1988.
I think a lot of people would be more surprised that WMMS DIDN'T make a move like this EARLIER.
-nate81 aka Myron-
Nathan Obral said:OhReally? said:JoeJammin said:
Uhh...some of us noticed it loooonnnng before this move. :
Oh, yeah.
Like I said eariler, the WMMS of old ceased to be back in 1998. And certainally ceased to be a credible rock station right at the end of the NextGen Buzzard era. And as John Baylor said (and I forgot to mention), it REALLY lost its' impact on the market after the ballot scandal of 1988.
I think a lot of people would be more surprised that WMMS DIDN'T make a move like this EARLIER.
-nate81 aka Myron-
I must say that WMMS's numbers between 1998-00 were pretty good as a mainstream rocker under than PD Tony "TNT" Tilford, who is now at WTUE/Dayton.
WMMS was very aggressive on air, in its imaging, had Slats, Dick Dale in AM drive...for a short time. Dick was good. If his personal issues had taken him off WMMS I think he eventually would have done very well.
WMMS at that time was patterned after sister WEBN, even the same VO talent; John Wells and Keith Eubanks.
IMO WMMS sounded very good, despite the 'Bury the Buzzard' alleged stunt (which I don't think it was).
I have some of the master VHS tapes from a few days of the BTB "stunt". Included is Denny Sanders interview with John Lennon from the 70s where JL signs off with "Have a Happy Cleveland!".
John Baylor wrote:
"Oddly, I haven’t heard any of the Danny Wright or Scott Howitt defenders, (both great jocks BTW) who use the reasoning they were excused to save triv’s ratings on 1100. Look at recent history. Maxwell has been slowly cutting into Triv’s numbers. If the conspiracy nuts are correct, CC would have to fire Maxwell to protect Triv.
Why haven’t they done this?"
They have not done this for a couple of reasons.
First, Maxwell's target is Men 18-34. Howitt, Wright and Triv's targets were/are men 25-54 and men 35+. Does not matter if Maxwell is close in 12+, or maybe shaves a bit from 25-34.
Second, Clear Channel was determined to have WTAM be the #1 25-54 overall station in Cleveland, probably based on the fact that talk stations can run more spots than music stations. So they fired Scott Howitt, and the other 25-54 afternoon powerhouse Danny Wright.
Daune Robinson's midday WMJI show was not only #1 25-54 in her time period, but one of the four or five most-listened to shows total week REGARDLESS OF STATION, REGARDLESS OF TIME PERIOD. They pushed her out. None of this makes any sense, especially since those two time periods on MJI have never gone back to #1 25-54 since those people left.
If it was not a flanking protection for WTAM (which I suspect, at least in part) it was--at the very least--some pretty stupid moves by (ahem) someone with a certain personal agenda (bonus plan tied to a certain station, maybe? Maybe? Hmmmm?).
"Oddly, I haven’t heard any of the Danny Wright or Scott Howitt defenders, (both great jocks BTW) who use the reasoning they were excused to save triv’s ratings on 1100. Look at recent history. Maxwell has been slowly cutting into Triv’s numbers. If the conspiracy nuts are correct, CC would have to fire Maxwell to protect Triv.
Why haven’t they done this?"
They have not done this for a couple of reasons.
First, Maxwell's target is Men 18-34. Howitt, Wright and Triv's targets were/are men 25-54 and men 35+. Does not matter if Maxwell is close in 12+, or maybe shaves a bit from 25-34.
Second, Clear Channel was determined to have WTAM be the #1 25-54 overall station in Cleveland, probably based on the fact that talk stations can run more spots than music stations. So they fired Scott Howitt, and the other 25-54 afternoon powerhouse Danny Wright.
Daune Robinson's midday WMJI show was not only #1 25-54 in her time period, but one of the four or five most-listened to shows total week REGARDLESS OF STATION, REGARDLESS OF TIME PERIOD. They pushed her out. None of this makes any sense, especially since those two time periods on MJI have never gone back to #1 25-54 since those people left.
If it was not a flanking protection for WTAM (which I suspect, at least in part) it was--at the very least--some pretty stupid moves by (ahem) someone with a certain personal agenda (bonus plan tied to a certain station, maybe? Maybe? Hmmmm?).
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