WMTJ 620 iboc crashing at boot up.

[w9wi]

I would think that they would be more concerned with the lucrative Chicago audience to the South than with providing IBOC to a few dozen people in Milwaukee. I bet Chicago coverage goes way up when the IBOC box crashes.

They certainly have a big signal in Chicago -- but they aren't selling any airtime down there. I don't think WTMJ cares whether anyone can receive the station in Illinois. It would cost far more (in syndicated programming and sports rights fees) to compete in Chicago than they could ever hope to earn competing with WGN & WLS (not to mention the dozens of FM stations) whose signals are even better.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Nothing unique to AM there - FM does the exact same thing. Some stations lose as much as 60 miles range.

I'm curious how many FM stations sell ads to businesses that far out. Even here in our land of big C's with 150 mile end-to-end real world coverage, they don't sell ads more than 30-40 miles out from the stick. Ditto AM. Even WWL doesn't carry ads for anything outside the New Orleans metro, despite having a signal that hits 7 or 8 other rated markets during the day and many more at night.

This the land of big C's in Texas. Problem is - places like Houston and Dallas established antenna farms decades ago, and much of the growth has been at the far end of the metro area away from the antenna farms:

Houston's antenna farm is in Missouri City - much of the growth has been North along I-45 in the Woodlands and Conroe. You could make a case that both are little more than suburbs now because the city is continuous. Parts of that area are approaching 70 or 80 miles from the towers.

Dallas's antenna farm is on the South side, between the cities. Much of the growth has been along hwy 75 into McKinney and beyond, and up the Dallas North Tollway to Frisco.

What is a loss of 60 miles out of 150 is symptomatic of a weaker signal. That observation was with a Pioneer Supertuner 3D car radio, one of the most sensitive ever made - with a no compromise whip antenna on the car (the type you used to see, but have been phased out almost completely on newer cars). So 150 miles is easy on a full C over flat terrain. When stations go HD, and I lose 60 miles of reception range, it means that those stations do not penetrate buildings in Houston as well - which seems to be something they are whining about. And those 5 dollar clock radios, cell phones with FM, walkmans, and the average FM tuner made of two gangs and a single ceramic filter - I bet some of those stations don't make it 30 miles on some of those radios. And that would be a huge deal to Houston, DFW, LA, and other metro areas that can and do spread out over hundreds of square miles. Any power loss due to HD radio is going to hurt the station's bottom line, because they will lose listeners in the suburbs - affluent listeners who live out there because they can afford the houses and commute. If I were a station owner, I'd can the HD and go for as much coverage as I could get. I can RDS and the rest of the sideband stuff for the same reason. If I had a news talk / sports station, I'd even can stereo so I could get as much building penetration and range as I could.

I made the 60 mile decreased range on multiple stations, one of which had HD on, turned it off, then turned it back on. When its off - solid as a rock all the way to Centerville. When HD is on, it has trouble in Huntsville and even parts of Conroe. Which is starting to limit their audience because those are significant populations.

As far as the ads - when I head ads on the radio these days, there are more and more national ads, fewer and fewer local ads.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I would think that they would be more concerned with the lucrative Chicago audience to the South than with providing IBOC to a few dozen people in Milwaukee. I bet Chicago coverage goes way up when the IBOC box crashes.

They certainly have a big signal in Chicago -- but they aren't selling any airtime down there. I don't think WTMJ cares whether anyone can receive the station in Illinois. It would cost far more (in syndicated programming and sports rights fees) to compete in Chicago than they could ever hope to earn competing with WGN & WLS (not to mention the dozens of FM stations) whose signals are even better.

I was just assuming that because KLVI Beaumont might as well advertise itself as a Houston station. Similar distance, similar power, similar scenario.

 

[w9wi]

I would think that they would be more concerned with the lucrative Chicago audience to the South than with providing IBOC to a few dozen people in Milwaukee. I bet Chicago coverage goes way up when the IBOC box crashes.

They certainly have a big signal in Chicago -- but they aren't selling any airtime down there. I don't think WTMJ cares whether anyone can receive the station in Illinois. It would cost far more (in syndicated programming and sports rights fees) to compete in Chicago than they could ever hope to earn competing with WGN & WLS (not to mention the dozens of FM stations) whose signals are even better.

I was just assuming that because KLVI Beaumont might as well advertise itself as a Houston station. Similar distance, similar power, similar scenario.

Oh, absolutely, you can hear WTMJ just fine in Chicago. (at least during the day. I've never tried to listen down there at night.)

But I think they find they're doing just fine being the #1 station in market #38. Fighting to crack the top 30 in market #3 just isn't worth it.

 

[KB1OKL]

What is a loss of 60 miles out of 150 is symptomatic of a weaker signal. That observation was with a Pioneer Supertuner 3D car radio, one of the most sensitive ever made - with a no compromise whip antenna on the car (the type you used to see, but have been phased out almost completely on newer cars). So 150 miles is easy on a full C over flat terrain. When stations go HD, and I lose 60 miles of reception range, it means that those stations do not penetrate buildings in Houston as well - which seems to be something they are whining about. And those 5 dollar clock radios, cell phones with FM, walkmans, and the average FM tuner made of two gangs and a single ceramic filter - I bet some of those stations don't make it 30 miles on some of those radios. And that would be a huge deal to Houston, DFW, LA, and other metro areas that can and do spread out over hundreds of square miles. Any power loss due to HD radio is going to hurt the station's bottom line, because they will lose listeners in the suburbs - affluent listeners who live out there because they can afford the houses and commute. If I were a station owner, I'd can the HD and go for as much coverage as I could get. I can RDS and the rest of the sideband stuff for the same reason. If I had a news talk / sports station, I'd even can stereo so I could get as much building penetration and range as I could.

I made the 60 mile decreased range on multiple stations, one of which had HD on, turned it off, then turned it back on. When its off - solid as a rock all the way to Centerville. When HD is on, it has trouble in Huntsville and even parts of Conroe. Which is starting to limit their audience because those are significant populations.

Yes if it loses 60 miles of of it's 150 mile range the signal will also be degraded closer to the transmitter. The signal does not all of a sudden just drop out at the 90 mile mark, it is weaker everywhere. The HD boosters on this board seem to ignore that little fact of physics. On the AM side I can remember my father asking me why WBZ didn't come in well anymore right after they turned on the hashmaker.