WMVP New CP

[briancraig]

We can't forget the Truckin' Bozo (Dale Summers) on 700 WLW and several other stations, including WHAM, WWVA and KWKH at various times. When Dale had to retire due to medical issues, his son, who had been doing the weekend versions, took over, the show was dropped by most affiliates, though was re-named The American Trucker Radio Network. Earlier, there was Interstate 7.

I believe the first show geared 100% to truckers was the Road Gang on WWL in New Orleans starting in 1971 and hosted by Charlie Douglas and Dave Nemo.

While Bill Mack started in 1969 on WBAP and WSM had an overnight country show since the early 1950s, these programs also tried to appeal to other people who were awake overnight. Truck drivers were the only listeners the Road Gang catered to.

 

[cyberdad]

I believe the first show geared 100% to truckers was the Road Gang on WWL in New Orleans starting in 1971 and hosted by Charlie Douglas and Dave Nemo.

I was going to mention Charlie Douglas and the Road Gang. He and Bill Mack were the best, IMHO.

 

[PB Randolf]

I was going to mention Charlie Douglas and the Road Gang. He and Bill Mack were the best, IMHO.

I believe you are correct - there may have been some smaller incanations prior but none really seemed to take hold and be of note like Charlie's

 

[radioman148]

WMVP 1000 is downgrading to 37000 watts Nighttime, and shorter towers. From just East of Joliet, IL.

Analysis.

1. Much weaker signal in Downtown/Loop Area of Chicago, much farther from the CDP/Loop and the Northern parts of Metropolitan Chicago. Better at Night in Western suburban places like Aurora and Naperville, where the existing nulls are problematic.

2. Roughly comparable in rural areas of Central and Northern Michigan at Night, and Northern Wisconsin.

3. Remains a Class A Skywave protected station.

4. Not as bad as WOWO Downgrade at Night. WOWO downgraded to Class B with 9800 watts Night and no protected skywave.

When will this happen?

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Well, the towers are already there, as they are part of the WCPT 820 array.

Probably depends on when they have to vacate the Downer's Grove location. I would keep that on as long as possible. Only the Southwest and some Western Suburbs will get a better signal than the present location, which places a 25 mVm contour over the entire City of Chicago Day and Night, which no other area AM stations do.

All we can do is guess.

 

[TheBigA]

When will this happen?

They filed for the CP a few weeks ago, and it's currently listed as "pending" at the FCC.

It could take a few months to be approved.

 

[radioman148]

They filed for the CP a few weeks ago, and it's currently listed as "pending" at the FCC.

It could take a few months to be approved.

Thanks!

 

[alok]

I recall in the late 60's / early 70's SUPER CFL came in loud at night in New Jersey.

Right around sunset in NJ you'd hear WIOO 1000 starting to come in, you'd hear their skywave in NJ.
WIOO was a daytimer on 1000 in Carlisle, PA.
WIOO would begin their sign off and they'd tell listeners to keep it on 1000 because soon WCFL Chicago will be Rockin' & Rollin' all night, then join us, WIOO tomorrow morning at sunrise for more RnR from WIOO 1000.
Then gone was their carrier.
I
SUPER CFL followed afterwards, as it got darker west, and they were in all night loud.

I noticed today WIOO uses much more power as a daytimer but in the late 60's / early 70's they were, if I recall correctly, 1kw daytime.

Al

 

[davideduardo]

They filed for the CP a few weeks ago, and it's currently listed as "pending" at the FCC.

It could take a few months to be approved.

And then the building and installation of the phasor and combiner will take many more months. When 1150 was combined with KTNQ in LA in the late 90's, they did not order the combiner, modifications to the KTNQ phasor, and the 1150 ATU/Phasor until the FCC approved the move. It took about 4 months to have the modules for each tower and the combiner built, and then several months to install and fine tune both 1020 and 1150. In the interim, KTNQ was off the air after midnight for several months.

Some of the world's best antenna engineers were onsite, and the cost was huge. Jules and Harvey did a magnificent job, though. KTNQ did not lose coverage or bandwidth/fidelity and 1150 sounded quite good from the offset.

I'm guessing 6 to 8 months after the approval to get the whole thing installed and able to be licensed.

They could gamble and order the tuning units from Kintronics: AM Directional Antenna Phasing System

They could even install the stuff but, legally, not connect it to anything without a CP. Even then, it's a lengthy process.

 

[TheBigA]

I'm guessing 6 to 8 months after the approval to get the whole thing installed and able to be licensed.

I think a CP is good for two years. We remember how long it took for Audacy to move the WNSH/WXBK tower to the Meadowlands, even after the paperwork was done. So it could be a while.

 

[davideduardo]

I think a CP is good for two years. We remember how long it took for Audacy to move the WNSH/WXBK tower to the Meadowlands, even after the paperwork was done. So it could be a while.

The CP for the WQBA Miami site move to the edge of the Everglades (protected) on a Reservation (double protected) took about half a decade to begin building due to the permit process going through, IIRC, about 12 different ones needed. As long as work was progressing, they CP kept being renewed.

Another "IIRC" case was the WISN move to 1130 in Milwaukee. I believe they were on the CP for about two decades, and finally had to drop night power to make it work. Schrodinger's Cat may have a better recollection of this than I do.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

WBBM and WNTN in Newton, MA (Off the top of my head) used the same consulting engineers for their current diplex operations that 1000 is using.

WBBM filed the CP in October 2017. It was granted in February 2018. It went on the air in the summer of 2019. So it took about 2 years.

WNTN filed the CP to diplex with WJIB in July 2015. It was granted in December. It went on the air in March 2017 with 750 watts. So again about 2 years. They then proceeded to conduct tests to allow them to boost power from 750 watts to the current 6,700 (The original site was 10kw). That went live in the summer of 2018. The engineer had to solve some interference problems while it was testing. People heard it in their phones and speakers. They supplied filters. The full process for this one was about 3 years as a result of the power increase.

 

[davideduardo]

WBBM and WNTN in Newton, MA (Off the top of my head) used the same consulting engineers for their current diplex operations that 1000 is using.

WBBM filed the CP in October 2017. It was granted in February 2018. It went on the air in the summer of 2019. So it took about 2 years.

WNTN filed the CP to diplex with WJIB in July 2015. It was granted in December. It went on the air in March 2017 with 750 watts. So again about 2 years. They then proceeded to conduct tests to allow them to boost power from 750 watts to the current 6,700 (The original site was 10kw). That went live in the summer of 2018. The engineer had to solve some interference problems while it was testing. People heard it in their phones and speakers. They supplied filters. The full process for this one was about 3 years as a result of the power increase.

Good research. And rather typical if there are no further extenuating circumstances.

 

[alok]

Got a question, I did not see it answered.
How come they are dropping from 50kw night to 37kw night?

I am guessing, correct me if I am wrong, is it to save money?
Maybe from the new shared site 50kw night would require an added tower for WMVP and they don't want to spend the money to do that?

Also do they own the present site, I thought I heard they do not. I was wondering how they been at that site for so long, old art-decor style buildings, etc., and not own the site?
I note too there are two buildings on the present site, how come? Are the transmitters in one building by themselves?

the present site . . .

Google Maps

Al

 

[TheBigA]

Also do they own the present site, I thought I heard they do not. I was wondering how they been at that site for so long, old art-decor style buildings, etc., and not own the site?

They do not own the site. The station has been bought & sold several times in its history. The previous owner was Disney, and I guess they kept the property and will sell it once GKB moves. The sale by Disney to GKB was very friendly. GKB does a lot of business with ESPN, so it was in Disney's best interest for GKB to buy the station and continue airing ESPN Radio. By not including the land, GKB got the station at a lower price, and this new tower deal will be cheaper to operate.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

Got a question, I did not see it answered.
How come they are dropping from 50kw night to 37kw night?

I am guessing, correct me if I am wrong, is it to save money?
Maybe from the new shared site 50kw night would require an added tower for WMVP and they don't want to spend the money to do that?

Also do they own the present site, I thought I heard they do not. I was wondering how they been at that site for so long, old art-decor style buildings, etc., and not own the site?
I note too there are two buildings on the present site, how come? Are the transmitters in one building by themselves?

the present site . . .

Google Maps

Al

They have other stations they have to avoid interfering with. Usually they plot these out on a computer software. The software will tell them how much power and how directional they will need to be at the new site to cover what they want and avoid interfering with the other station. At least during the day, not sure about at night, they can proceed to do human measurements for the possibility to increase the power but that would take longer.

In WBBM's case, the 670 tower was more efficient than the 780 tower, so they had to reduce power to get a similar coverage area without causing interference.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

It looks to me like the primary Day Power limitation for WBBM was to maintain (not increase) or decrease overlap with stations on 770 and 790.

Download the file that says "Engineering Packet" to view the situation.

https://enterpriseefiling.fcc.gov/dataentry/views/public/amDraftCopy?displayType=html&appKey=6c2b47b049b74152af0cc1b6063ebeb7&id=6c2b47b049b74152af0cc1b6063ebeb7&goBack=N

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Maybe from the new shared site 50kw night would require an added tower for WMVP and they don't want to spend the money to do that?

Yeah, I think that's it. They can only send so much energy toward 1000 KNWN in Seattle or 1010 WINS in NYC or 990 CBW in Winnipeg. I suspect in this case, it is Winnipeg that causing the reduction in power, but it might be Seattle.

Also do they own the present site, I thought I heard they do not. I was wondering how they been at that site for so long, old art-decor style buildings, etc., and not own the site?

Yes, 1000 has been at the present site for 80 years. The site and station were co-owned until the 2022 sale to Good Karma Brands, as BigA outlined.

 

[Schroedingers Cat]

Looking at the History Card, it looks like WCFL started using the site in the early 1930s, around 90 years ago. The key is that the address in "York Township" is the same address as in Downers Grove, 39th and Warwick. Perhaps Warwick Road disappeared in the array when more than one tower was built, or was renamed.

https://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getimportletter_exh.cgi?import_letter_id=51160

 

[davideduardo]

Got a question, I did not see it answered.
How come they are dropping from 50kw night to 37kw night?

To maintain the same protection to other stations as they had before. The reduction in power of 25% is less than a 12% reduction in coverage. Of course, antenna height in wavelengths, area ground conductivity and other factors come into play.

I am guessing, correct me if I am wrong, is it to save money?

Absolutely not.

Maybe from the new shared site 50kw night would require an added tower for WMVP and they don't want to spend the money to do that?

That would require a redesign of the existing station's pattern and phaser as well. Very expensive, and not worth it. And there may not be enough land on the site for more towers.

Also do they own the present site, I thought I heard they do not. I was wondering how they been at that site for so long, old art-decor style buildings, etc., and not own the site?

Many stations either leased sites or later sold them and leased back. Saves a lot of wasted time that does not benefit station ad sales and management efficiency.

I note too there are two buildings on the present site, how come? Are the transmitters in one building by themselves?

Maybe they have / had an auxiliary studio there? Remember, too, that a 50 kw transmitter in the 30's was at least the size of a big 16-wheeler semi truck. They needed lots of space if they had an auxiliary transmitter.