WMVP PATTERN CHANGE TIME?

[Bob E. Nelson]

Does WCFL^HWMVP change to its night pattern at local sunset or does it has an arrangement with KOMO to do so later (a la WCKY and its western co-channel companion, KFBK)?

 

[oldiesfan6479]

Both sets of stations--WMVP/KOMO on 1000 and WCKY/KFBK on 1530--
are former class 1-Bs, which in itself might not mean anything re when
the pattern change kicks in, however...

The FCC AM Query for WCKY 1530 has a comment about a "two-site
operation" (which also may be irrelevant) but also mentions "in use
after sunset in Sacramento":

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?stat...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

OTOH, I don't see any similar type of "after sunset in Seattle" notation
in the WMVP 1000 listing:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/amq?stat...&slat2=&NS=N&dlon2=&mlon2=&slon2=&EW=W&size=9

WMVP's October sunset is 6:15 PM CDT, while KOMO's is 6:30 PM PDT/
8:30 PM CDT. Did you notice the WMVP pattern change occurring
around 8:30 rather than 6:15?

I suppose for WCKY, one has to use KFBK's sunset times for WCKY sunset
(6:30 PM PDT/9:30 PM EDT in October) and WCKY's own times for sunrise
(7:45 AM EDT in October).

 

[radiotower40]

WMVP changes pattern at Chicago sunrise/sunset times.

 

[b344077]

There is also the protection of non-dominent signal such as KTOK in Oklahoma City. My guess is that WMVP/WCFL is simply stuck with the local sunset provision.

 

[DanStrassberg]

There is also the protection of non-dominent signal such as KTOK in Oklahoma City. My guess is that WMVP/WCFL is simply stuck with the local sunset provision.

Protection of lower-class AMs by Class As is not common, but WMVP's protection of KTOK does indeed seem to be an example. The radiation minimum in WMVP's night pattern (roughly equivalent to 250W ND) is aimed right at KTOK. Some other examples are KIRO's protection of KEPN and also on 710, WOR's protection of (now dark) CKVM. On 1510, WLAC protects WWZN. There may be others, but in all of the cases I am aware of, the protected station is older than the Class A (or at least the lower-class station predates the Class A's being declared a Class A).

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

There is also the protection of non-dominent signal such as KTOK in Oklahoma City. My guess is that WMVP/WCFL is simply stuck with the local sunset provision.

Protection of lower-class AMs by Class As is not common, but WMVP's protection of KTOK does indeed seem to be an example. The radiation minimum in WMVP's night pattern (roughly equivalent to 250W ND) is aimed right at KTOK.

That's more interesting in light of KTOK having been a Class IV on 1400 for much of its early existence, at least through 1946. So the OKC notch must have been a post-WWII addition by WCFL?

Another point, Dan, how ``smoothly'' does current technology allow a pattern change to occur? Is is still necessary to turn off the plates, switch the pattern and then fire up the plates? Ka-thunk. Static. Ka-thunk.

 

[Bob E. Nelson]

There is also the protection of non-dominent signal such as KTOK in Oklahoma City. My guess is that WMVP/WCFL is simply stuck with the local sunset provision.

Protection of lower-class AMs by Class As is not common, but WMVP's protection of KTOK does indeed seem to be an example. The radiation minimum in WMVP's night pattern (roughly equivalent to 250W ND) is aimed right at KTOK.

That's more interesting in light of KTOK having been a Class IV on 1400 for much of its early existence, at least through 1946. So the OKC notch must have been a post-WWII addition by WCFL?

Answering my own question, I just finished an enjoyable and informative phone conversation with a KTOK engineer.

He explained that the postwar OKC facility change was possible because of WCFL's sharp null to protect a Mexican station. After WWII, KTOK was able to take advantage of that pre-existing notch in the pattern and move from 1400 to 1000 with 5000/1000 watts, later raising the nighttime power to 5000.

 

[scottwmro]

I'm not a sports fan, so I don't pay WMVP any attention.

I'm just a old fan of the station when it was "SUPER CFL". I was in grade school then, and that was 1974-75. WCFL changed format when I was in my first year of Jr. High, in "76". Larry Lujack's address to the nation, made on that day still holds true. Larry Lujack playing Easy Listening in 2010, NO WAY MAN! The next day when WCFL changed, WCFL still promoting the Kiss Concert, I got a chuckle out of that! Get Grandpa, upset? Not these days, Grandma & Grandpa are rockers!

"LIFE IS A ROCK, BUT "CFL" ROLLED ME." These days, it just hard for me to believe they are in the same building with their old competitor. As far as WLS, there is enough talk on AM, they need to take the talk off WLS-AM and simulcast with WLS-FM. If only somebody at Citadel would just sit and think of the audience they would have at night on the AM! Just like the old days! If Citadel would let WLS AM & FM simulcast the FM Music, they would make more money, even in this bad economy.

I hope I did offend anybody about using the term, "old days", but heck in 4 years, I turn 50. I'm old enought to be a grandpa!

 

[DanStrassberg]

Another point, Dan, how ``smoothly'' does current technology allow a pattern change to occur? Is is still necessary to turn off the plates, switch the pattern and then fire up the plates? Ka-thunk. Static. Ka-thunk.

The newest technology seem to work better than the old technology, except--maybe--on stations that operate from separate day and night sites. In such cases, it's possible for the two carriers to overlap, although most CEs find that the playing around necessary to achieve a brief overlap at both sunrise and sunset doesn't justify the time required to get the overlaps just right. Here in Boston, the quickest pattern changes are at the newest facility--the triplex of WKOX 1200, WRCA 1330, and WUNR 1600. After almost a decade of legal wrangling and construction delays, the site finally went live for all three stations earlier this year. WUNR is DA-1, so it has no pattern changes. Both WKOX and WRCA are DA-2 and WRCA also uses different D and N powers (and uses five towers by day and four by night). Anyhow, I'd say that the WKOX and WRCA pattern changes happen in tens of milliseconds. Even though the signal strength changes, I often completely fail to notice the switch. However, I imagine that if I would notice it if I were in a location where the signal strength changes more than it does where I live and either the day or night signal strength was lower than it is so the change in loudness wouldn't get covered up the the receiver's AGC.

 

[cyberdad]

Answering my own question, I just finished an enjoyable and informative phone conversation with a KTOK engineer.

He explained that the postwar OKC facility change was possible because of WCFL's sharp null to protect a Mexican station. After WWII, KTOK was able to take advantage of that pre-existing notch in the pattern and move from 1400 to 1000 with 5000/1000 watts, later raising the nighttime power to 5000.

I always presumed that this was the case....that KTOK had just been able to take advantage of an already existing null....or nulls.

I happened to be in the north suburbs of Dallas Friday night. KTOK was invisible (as wereWMVP and KOMO). XEOY owned the channel. This was basically also the situation when I was in Kansas City Saturday night.

 

[davideduardo]

Another point, Dan, how ``smoothly'' does current technology allow a pattern change to occur? Is is still necessary to turn off the plates, switch the pattern and then fire up the plates? Ka-thunk. Static. Ka-thunk.

A growing percentage of transmitters are solid state, and the switching relay can be interfcaced so that you have a momentary cut from the transmitter while the realy breaks and makes to the other setting, with all timing achieved via microswitches on the relay. I have seen a number of stations hot switch, and enjoyed the arc on the relay contacts. If you change the contacts often enough, and the relay is fast, all you hear in the air is the same sound you get when lightning hits the tower and jumps the ball gap.