If they are acquiring 970 for its coverage of Toronto, then a simulcast might make sense. Question: Does the 99.5 signal get into Toronto at all? I ask because I seem to recall there is a fairly new station in the Kitchener-Waterloo area that is co-channel to WDCX. Admittedly, my knowledge of southern Ontario geography leaves much to be desired, but, could a new station in Kitchener hamper reception of a co-channel station in Buffalo?
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WNED to sell AM station to Crawford Broadcasting
- Thread starter stratace05
- Start date
Jake, Kitchener is to the west of Buffalo, west of Hamilton and the west end of Lake Ontario. Toronto is more or less due north of Buffalo, across Lake Ontario from Niagara Falls. It's about 70 miles from Kitchener to Toronto. So, no, the low-power 99.5 in Kitchener doesn't do much to prevent WDCX-FM from getting into Toronto, but the general crowding of the FM dial up there makes 99.5 a harder catch than it used to be. 970 will help somewhat, but when/if CKNT 960 signs on up there, it will eat pretty deeply into 970's coverage.
B
Bob1370
Guest
Don't think they have much hope of getting listeners and $$$$ in Toronto. 99.5 is bracketed by two strong Toronto locals transmitting from downtown; CBC Radio One on 99.1 (98 kW ERP at 1000' HAAT from the top of the Bank of Montreal building) and CKFM "Virgin Radio" on 99.9 (40 kW ERP at 1330' HAAT from the CN Tower). The value of 99.5 is strong coverage of the Buffalo/Niagara Falls market, with some bonus coverage in the Niagara Falls/St. Catharines region of Ontario--not Toronto, where it'll hardly be heard on anything but a very selective and very sensitive radio. And the AM? Back in the late 1940s when the Courier-Express built the station, 970's signal was made far more directional to the north than it had to be, because that made it able to make an impression in Toronto when it was less built-up. Today, its chances of cutting through the noise in the center of a far bigger and more built-up Toronto are not good, given that all the Toronto locals on AM need 50 kW flamethrowers to cut through and be heard.
The Crawfords' purchase of the 970 signal doesn't make much sense to me if they're just going to simulcast. 970 adds little to the reach of 99.5, it's essentially all duplicated coverage. The one way it would make sense is if they turn one signal into an outlet for a different range of programming than the other--like they split AM and FM in Rochester, offering their preaching on AM while airing a secular personality classic hits format on FM. They could choose to move the preaching to AM while using the FM either for personality classic hits or as a competitor for WYRK's current monopoly in the country realm. Or, they could leave the FM alone and use the AM for some niche format that isn't on the air now in Buffalo, whatever that might be. The simulcast plans look like a waste of $800K.
The Crawfords' purchase of the 970 signal doesn't make much sense to me if they're just going to simulcast. 970 adds little to the reach of 99.5, it's essentially all duplicated coverage. The one way it would make sense is if they turn one signal into an outlet for a different range of programming than the other--like they split AM and FM in Rochester, offering their preaching on AM while airing a secular personality classic hits format on FM. They could choose to move the preaching to AM while using the FM either for personality classic hits or as a competitor for WYRK's current monopoly in the country realm. Or, they could leave the FM alone and use the AM for some niche format that isn't on the air now in Buffalo, whatever that might be. The simulcast plans look like a waste of $800K.
Bob1370 said:
Maybe the seller threw some o' those tasty Sound of the City jingles into the deal. "....faint is the thunder of Niagara...."
Nick Seneca
p.s. nah....Al Wallack probably has 'em in a shoebox in his attic
Bob1370 wrote: "Back in the late 1940s when the Courier-Express built the station, 970's signal was made far more directional to the north than it had to be, because that made it able to make an impression in Toronto when it was less built-up. Today, its chances of cutting through the noise in the center of a far bigger and more built-up Toronto are not good, given that all the Toronto locals on AM need 50 kW flamethrowers to cut through and be heard."
It should be noted that the directional pattern of WNED on 970 khz was designed and constructed so that WEBR would provide the required protection of two AM radio stations that operate on the same frequency in Pittsburgh, PA and Ashtabula, Ohio. In my discussions over the years with many engineers, this is the primary reason the (formerly WEBR) WNED-AM signal is dispersed to the north with harsh nulls to the east and southwest. Given the frequency and COLs, these three stations are inordinately short spaced. (The Rochester equivalent would be WROC and WIBX, both assigned to 950.)
A consulting engineer once theorized that the stations in Pittsburgh, Ashtabula and Buffalo would have a better signals had the FCC individually staggered the assignments of the three AM stations at 960, 970 and 980 rather than assigning all three to 970. The irony of WNED-AM is that it has a better signal in Niagara Falls and Lockport than in large parts of Hamburg and East Aurora, making it a fine Niagara county radio station capable of serving Niagara Falls, Lockport and all communities in the North Towns.
It should be noted that the directional pattern of WNED on 970 khz was designed and constructed so that WEBR would provide the required protection of two AM radio stations that operate on the same frequency in Pittsburgh, PA and Ashtabula, Ohio. In my discussions over the years with many engineers, this is the primary reason the (formerly WEBR) WNED-AM signal is dispersed to the north with harsh nulls to the east and southwest. Given the frequency and COLs, these three stations are inordinately short spaced. (The Rochester equivalent would be WROC and WIBX, both assigned to 950.)
A consulting engineer once theorized that the stations in Pittsburgh, Ashtabula and Buffalo would have a better signals had the FCC individually staggered the assignments of the three AM stations at 960, 970 and 980 rather than assigning all three to 970. The irony of WNED-AM is that it has a better signal in Niagara Falls and Lockport than in large parts of Hamburg and East Aurora, making it a fine Niagara county radio station capable of serving Niagara Falls, Lockport and all communities in the North Towns.
G
GeorgeKramer
Guest
Read in the paper that Brett Larson was appointed general manager at WDCX-FM in Buffalo and WDCX-AM in Rochester.
He has a degree in communications and an MBA from Lawrence University.
What else do we know about him?
He has a degree in communications and an MBA from Lawrence University.
What else do we know about him?
stratace05 said:
I am surprised no one here yet mentioned the Jeff Simon's rant on this in the Buffalo News...
http://www.buffalonews.com/entertainment/columns/jeff-simon/article1031298.ece
Richard in Allentown, PA (ex-East Aurora)
While I am puzzled, too, at the motives of Crawford to buy a highly diectional AM in Buffalo while letting an AM flame thrower go dark in Albany, I think there are some points to be made. First of all, many of the readers here may not be aware that 990 and 102.7 in Rochester are not technically a combo. They are owned by two separate corporations. Yes, the same family but 102.7 is run by the next generation of the Crawfords, and they seem more interested in secular programing than the elder Crawford. 990 is run by the traditional Crawford Broadcasting and is strictly religious. All the religious programing was moved from 102.7 to 990, apparently quite successfully for both stations.
So does this mean the same thing will happen in Buffalo? Don't know, but I'll bet they could move the 99.5 programing over to 970 and not skip a beat. Their loyal religious listeners will just follow them over to the AM. So where does that leave the FM? Maybe similar programming to WLGZ, BUT, that was a disaster in Albany. They took a class A FM and tried to take on very successful heritage station WTRY. It didn't work and we really don't know what happened to 1540 (WPTR). Maybe there are very serious technical problems that made it just too expensive to operate. In Buffalo they have the big signal on 99.5 but if they went to an oldies based format, they would be butting heads against WHTT.
So let's suppose they do successfully move the religious programing over to 970. What else to do with 99.5 other than oldies? Sell it. I bet Entercom (for one) would jump on it very quickly. They paid 10 million for the much inferior 107.7 signal a few years back. 99.5 would be much more valuable to them. Then Entercom could sell off 107.7, maybe as a trade to Crawford.
Just thinking.....
So does this mean the same thing will happen in Buffalo? Don't know, but I'll bet they could move the 99.5 programing over to 970 and not skip a beat. Their loyal religious listeners will just follow them over to the AM. So where does that leave the FM? Maybe similar programming to WLGZ, BUT, that was a disaster in Albany. They took a class A FM and tried to take on very successful heritage station WTRY. It didn't work and we really don't know what happened to 1540 (WPTR). Maybe there are very serious technical problems that made it just too expensive to operate. In Buffalo they have the big signal on 99.5 but if they went to an oldies based format, they would be butting heads against WHTT.
So let's suppose they do successfully move the religious programing over to 970. What else to do with 99.5 other than oldies? Sell it. I bet Entercom (for one) would jump on it very quickly. They paid 10 million for the much inferior 107.7 signal a few years back. 99.5 would be much more valuable to them. Then Entercom could sell off 107.7, maybe as a trade to Crawford.
Just thinking.....
rdcuffpa1 said:
To quote a colleague of mine in a parody of the new Buffalo News marketing campaign, "[BN]noyed -- read Jeff Simon!" LOL! "Nowhere but the Buffalo News" would you find such a stale and tired writer!
Although Simon is sometimes nettlesome and plays like an iPod on repeat, his observations, especially when passed through the strainer to remove the condescension and vitriol, have some validity. He's become Andy Rooney, without the "lovable curmudgeon" factor, having less hair and without the wild root eyebrows.
As a person who for years observed radio from the "inside out," I take Simon's commentary in a different perspective than many who are still "inside the joint" and those who have never "done time." That said, anybody having a morsel of understanding of what's going on in print and RF media should have seen this coming. Donald K. Bozwell, in a public forum that occurred around the time the WBFO purchase was announced, admitted that WNYPBA was seeking a buyer for the AM.
WNYPBA could have retained the AM station and programmed it with extensive local flavor. More than a few members (by virtue of their pledges and membership) insist it is WNYPBA's role to retain the AM station. Some of the programming suggestions offered by listeners and members at the public forum had merit. (Personally, I would have enjoyed programming a public station with that kind of localism.) But reality, being what it is, has shown that AM is a tough sell. Unless an AM station is programming sports and has at least one major league sports franchise, it's difficult if not impossible to attract listeners under 40 (some media experts offer "under 50") to the band.
A person who's 42 years old was born in 1970. Music and social influences? The 80s and 90s. Pause. Think. Apply. They were raised on FM and readily adapted to digital.
Simon (insufferably) makes a valid point when he talks about the legacy of jazz on WNED and WBFO. However, the dye has been cast by WNYPBA. WBFO, with the exception of the Blues shows on Saturday and Sunday nights, is now a primarily news-talk station competing head on with WBEN, no walk in the park. There is a certain loss (and sadness) in WBFO no longer being "a major public service of the University at Buffalo." More than a few faithful listeners believe the station has been homogenized. There was an aura and legacy about the station.
"Aura and legacy" don't sustain pledges and memberships. But here's the hard-core street-speak counter argument from listeners and a few (former) staffers: WNYPBA has spoiled the sauce. (Expletives deleted and context mildly altered.) WBFO will soon find out if all-news, sat-delivered programming, weekend talk features and all night news from The Beeb rather than NPR, will sustain memberships and pledges on a long-term basis.
Professional perspective? If WBFO pledges and memberships are down or do not sustain, front line personnel and those in the trenches will find conditions more challenging. (Expletives deleted and context mildly altered.)
As a person who for years observed radio from the "inside out," I take Simon's commentary in a different perspective than many who are still "inside the joint" and those who have never "done time." That said, anybody having a morsel of understanding of what's going on in print and RF media should have seen this coming. Donald K. Bozwell, in a public forum that occurred around the time the WBFO purchase was announced, admitted that WNYPBA was seeking a buyer for the AM.
WNYPBA could have retained the AM station and programmed it with extensive local flavor. More than a few members (by virtue of their pledges and membership) insist it is WNYPBA's role to retain the AM station. Some of the programming suggestions offered by listeners and members at the public forum had merit. (Personally, I would have enjoyed programming a public station with that kind of localism.) But reality, being what it is, has shown that AM is a tough sell. Unless an AM station is programming sports and has at least one major league sports franchise, it's difficult if not impossible to attract listeners under 40 (some media experts offer "under 50") to the band.
A person who's 42 years old was born in 1970. Music and social influences? The 80s and 90s. Pause. Think. Apply. They were raised on FM and readily adapted to digital.
Simon (insufferably) makes a valid point when he talks about the legacy of jazz on WNED and WBFO. However, the dye has been cast by WNYPBA. WBFO, with the exception of the Blues shows on Saturday and Sunday nights, is now a primarily news-talk station competing head on with WBEN, no walk in the park. There is a certain loss (and sadness) in WBFO no longer being "a major public service of the University at Buffalo." More than a few faithful listeners believe the station has been homogenized. There was an aura and legacy about the station.
"Aura and legacy" don't sustain pledges and memberships. But here's the hard-core street-speak counter argument from listeners and a few (former) staffers: WNYPBA has spoiled the sauce. (Expletives deleted and context mildly altered.) WBFO will soon find out if all-news, sat-delivered programming, weekend talk features and all night news from The Beeb rather than NPR, will sustain memberships and pledges on a long-term basis.
Professional perspective? If WBFO pledges and memberships are down or do not sustain, front line personnel and those in the trenches will find conditions more challenging. (Expletives deleted and context mildly altered.)
JustPastBuffalo said:
With what money? They're in the hole for $4 million, and the money they got for this helps pay down the debt. Isn't paying down the debt a good thing? Isn't that what the critics think is what's hurting commercial radio?
Sure, maybe an all-volunteer on air staff, but who really wants to listen to the amateur hour? AM facilities are typically more expensive than FM, and with the exception of two heritage stations, the AM audience seems to be dying off. Lots of NPR stations have been selling off their AMs lately too.
When you look at NPR/PBS combos around the country, the radio becomes a support system for the TV, and the fundraising is done together. They raise a combined pile of money that pays for the total operation. That's what I've seen in Boston with WGBH and DC with WETA.
spt87 said:
It becomes a very expensive toy. With state cutbacks to universities, it's a choice between books or radio stations. Most colleges are choosing books.
TheBigA said:
AM sale: WOSU did this in Columbus, OH. Both news & fine arts stations are now FM; the AM side (which was news) was sold to a religious broadcaster.
NPR/PBS: interestingly, in Philadelphia there isn't that much crossover fundraising, at least on the radio side...the begging is done specifically surrounding radio programming
There are plenty of precedents for that too. WJHU in Baltimore became WYPR once it was sold by Johns Hopkins. In markets with multiple university-owned radio stations, one or two of them might remain a student-operated "college radio" station.
So why wouldn't an AM station like WNED then become the college radio station, essentially swapping roles with WBFO? I noted the answer in an earlier post -- AM has few listeners under the age of 35.
Step back and think for a minute -- how many AM signals in WNY really reach the whole area well day or night? There are two...WBEN and WWKB. All the rest are somehow flawed by directionality requirements (WGR, WNED, WXRL), power requirements (WWWS, WNIA), or operating hours limitations (WUFO, WBBF, WHLD, WJJL).
On the FM side, the whole metro area is well-reached by by WBFO, WBUF, WBLK, WNED, WJYE, WGRF, WKSE, WDCX, WTSS, WEDG, WHTT, and WYRK.
The original student-run rationale for WBFO makes no sense now that FM has become the dominant radio band. Could young people "rediscover" AM? No, because the Internet streaming genie is out of the bottle, as we noted on other threads.
Richard in Allentown, PA (ex-East Aurora).
rdcuffpa1 said:
Didn't know that. Being the originating station for Terry Gross may give radio more independence.
Philly is an interesting market, with several very unique non-coms, like WXTU and WRTU, both of which are still owned by universities. However, both University of PA and Temple have very advanced broadcasting and communications departments, each offering advanced degrees in the field.
JustPastBuffalo said:
I'm not sure you can blame Western New York Public Broadcasting for "homogenizing" the station. I would argue that happened when UB-hired General Manager Mark Vogelzang instituted the NPR talk programming in February 2010. And additionally, I would say it was the right decision. Public stations are either all NPR News, all classical, or all adult alternative. There are just a handful of all-jazz public station. There does seem to be some affinity between NPR News and classical listeners, so there are some stations that still present those two formats together. But for the most part, dual-formatted radio stations are becoming a thing of the past in public radio. WBFO was proud to present its "On the Border" contemporary music series a few years back. The fact is it just didn't garner much listenership or fundraising dollars. I think people were in love with the CONCEPT of "On the Border." But again, that did not translate into sufficient audience numbers on the radio, and therefore it was cut once the grant that funded the series ran out. I guess that means WBFO is now homogenized. Just because WBFO is public radio doesn't mean it's wise to spend money on something that doesn't appear to have much support. Maybe purists would argue otherwise. But it's not their money!
Now, in the last couple of years under UB ownership, WBFO was on automation seven hours each weekday during prime listening hours -- from 1 to 4pm and again from 6 to 10pm. You heard a lot of fill music. No weather. No local news. Today, WBFO is staffed with live announcers from 5am to 10pm. That's not only good for those of us in the radio industry. But it's good for the audience. There are now hourly local newscasts, plus frequent weather updates and more. Eileen Buckley continues to air some engaging arts features and interviews that WBFO has long been known for. Morning Edition host Jay Moran has done some interesting features. An up and coming young reporter in the name of Daniel Robison is doing some great enterprising work that is often heard nationwide on NPR. Plus, veteran radio newsmen Chris Caya and Mike Desmond have their hand on the pulse of the day's news. And we now have access to Karen Dewitt's reports from Albany that keep us updated on what those "guys" in the State Capitol are doing. How has all this spoiled the sauce?
Yes, I hear those folks who miss the Blues on weekend afternoons. But as I've said before, an NPR news station presents talk programming during most of its broadcast hours. Management could have easily canceled the Blues. But instead, they listened to public input and found a place on weekend evenings. Again, it's not ideal for those who enjoyed hearing the Blues while they're engaged in their Saturday afternoon activities. Wouldn't the alternative of no Blues be worse?
One other thing. There is no all-night NPR alternative to the Beeb. Buffalo is not alone here. Dozens of NPR stations air the BBC overnight.
Indeed, WBFO had a great run under UB. But I don't think I'd want to be working for an entity that no longer wanted to run a public radio station. All of us who have made the move to Horizons Plaza are happy to be free of the stress that had enveloped WBFO in its final years at UB. We're now part of an organization that wants us and is interested in improving us.
Yes, which is why the next sentence in that post is an essential part of the paragraph.TheBigA said:
After reading Philip's post, I now applaud WNYPB for actually listening to the public and retaining the Blues. The fact that its some of their most popular programming - as demonstrated by both pledges and ratings - might have helped them with that decision. The dismal ratings and fund-raising performance of the programming that replaced it on the weekends might also be of note IF the management of WNYPB really IS interested in the input from the Public.
I don't mind the Beeb overnight, but why aren't we getting NPR until midnight?
Lastly, I'm thrilled to hear that "All of us who have made the move to Horizons Plaza are happy to be free of the stress that had enveloped WBFO in its final years at UB. We're now part of an organization that wants us and is interested in improving us." I had heard differently.
I don't mind the Beeb overnight, but why aren't we getting NPR until midnight?
Lastly, I'm thrilled to hear that "All of us who have made the move to Horizons Plaza are happy to be free of the stress that had enveloped WBFO in its final years at UB. We're now part of an organization that wants us and is interested in improving us." I had heard differently.
Simon's commentary http://www.buffalonews.com/article/20120830/LIFE/120839449 won't win any friends at WBFO, especially his reference to the "occasional canny and co-opting interviews with my estimable colleagues" that can be heard on WBFO. Canny and co-opting, eh?
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