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WNUW all christmas tomorrow at 5:00 PM.

J

JH_Radio

Hmm. so does that mean the B starts at 3 PM?
And if the b starts at 3, then does now start at 3:03?
Let the AC Christmas War begin.
AC Christmas = saturation Christmas time.
Philly people can get WBEB, WLEV, WJBR, and WNUW!
Wait, break time you say? Dont like those camersials? Cool, flip to the second AC Christmas station programmed in your car. What? You say they are doing camersials there too?
Someone should schedule there breaks differently, so not everyone breaks at the same time.

Truely, its sad when everyone goes christmas and its not even Thanksgiving, yet!
John
Bensalem, PA
 
This would be the earliest all-Christmas start in Philly if they flipped before the kids got dressed up to go trick or treating. I hope WOGL beats B101 after Now flips first. I remember in my area in 2003, there were 7 all-Christmas stations from Thanksgiving - Sunny 104.5, B101, Magic 98.3, 100.7 WLEV, 95.5 PLJ, 102.7 (stunting), and 106.7 Lite FM.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that B101 will let 97.5 do all-Christmas by itself for the entire weekend. The folks at B101 are not stupid: This could be a very transparent ploy by Greater Media to make B101 go all-Christmas only to watch 97.5 flip back on Monday morning in hopes of having the Mainstream AC format all to itself for a while.

If 97.5 is still doing all-Christmas on Monday at 8:30 a.m., B101 may have a decision to make at that time. I'm not counting on B101 flipping before 97.5 and I'm not expecting them to change at 5:00 tomorrow afternoon either.

I'm actually more interested in seeing whether Clear Channel or CBS decide to counter-strike. If two stations end up doing all-Christmas before B101...well, that just might present an actual problem at 10 Presidential!
 
Soon Yi CIV.V said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that B101 will let 97.5 do all-Christmas by itself for the entire weekend. The folks at B101 are not stupid: This could be a very transparent ploy by Greater Media to make B101 go all-Christmas only to watch 97.5 flip back on Monday morning in hopes of having the Mainstream AC format all to itself for a while.
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That is EXACTLY what I thought when I first read this. This sounds like something 105.9 in Chicago did before flipping to Fresh. I believe they originally said they would play all Christmas music, then WLIT turned on the Holiday Lite, and Fresh launched at 105.9. NOW might just be trying to get B101 to respond by flipping to Christmas music prematurely. But, even when Sunny was around, especially towards the end, didn't B wait until Thanksgiving anyway to play all-Christmas music even when Sunny was doing it earlier?

The situation in Philly is quite different this year, especially since NOW is targeting a more similar audience to the B than did Sunny. We shall wait and see. But I will try to position my antenna in Central Jersey to hear some NOW holiday favorites tomorrow. I just hope they don't try to make the Christmas format younger by playing newer Christmas music and going easy on the true classics. But I think the folks at GM would know better and would do the traditional Christmas format if they do indeed stay the course until Christmas Day.
 
tommygraser said:
where do you get this info from?there website does not say anything about it.
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See the story about NOW on the Radio-Info homepage. You are correct, though. Their website has no mention of Christmas music, but the Inquirer does.
 
sow Now gets a short-term publicity hit from the three or four people not still delerious over the Phillies. When the B goes, whether it's one minute later or one week later or one month later (obviously it won't be a month, but still...), the war will be, in effect, over. They win. They'll be running more spots than Obama and McCain combined did in October, and people will stay with them.

I understand the basic premise of the "first strike" mentality, but, honestly, I don't believe for a minute B 101 will lose out to a station that hasn't had any listeners to speak of since they were WPST (not counting the two dozen of us, myself included, who enjoyed The Hawk better than WMGK).
 
But, even when Sunny was around, especially towards the end, didn't B wait until Thanksgiving anyway to play all-Christmas music even when Sunny was doing it earlier? The situation in Philly is quite different this year, especially since NOW is targeting a more similar audience to the B than did Sunny.
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Also consider: The oft-mentioned 17-share B101 got last year with all-Christmas. Regardless of who was targeting what, B101 and Sunny didn't used to get that big an audience combined! (Did they?) For whatever reason, the all-Christmas audience seems to have really become something to shoot for here in Philadelphia.

I understand the basic premise of the "first strike" mentality, but, honestly, I don't believe for a minute B 101 will lose out to a station that hasn't had any listeners to speak of since they were WPST
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Right... But what if WOGL or My 106.1 flips to compete with 97.5? If two stations are doing all-Christmas--one of them with commercial-free weekdays--for a week or two before B101, that could be a real obstacle for B101.
 
Soon Yi CIV.V said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that B101 will let 97.5 do all-Christmas by itself for the entire weekend. The folks at B101 are not stupid: This could be a very transparent ploy by Greater Media to make B101 go all-Christmas only to watch 97.5 flip back on Monday morning in hopes of having the Mainstream AC format all to itself for a while.
Click to expand...


It could be a good move on Now's part to test the gullibility of B101. When was the earliest B101 flipped to all-Christmas?
 
Soon Yi CIV.V said:
But, even when Sunny was around, especially towards the end, didn't B wait until Thanksgiving anyway to play all-Christmas music even when Sunny was doing it earlier? The situation in Philly is quite different this year, especially since NOW is targeting a more similar audience to the B than did Sunny.
Click to expand...

Also consider: The oft-mentioned 17-share B101 got last year with all-Christmas. Regardless of who was targeting what, B101 and Sunny didn't used to get that big an audience combined! (Did they?) For whatever reason, the all-Christmas audience seems to have really become something to shoot for here in Philadelphia.

I understand the basic premise of the "first strike" mentality, but, honestly, I don't believe for a minute B 101 will lose out to a station that hasn't had any listeners to speak of since they were WPST
Click to expand...

Right... But what if WOGL or My 106.1 flips to compete with 97.5? If two stations are doing all-Christmas--one of them with commercial-free weekdays--for a week or two before B101, that could be a real obstacle for B101.
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Well, we do have to consider the dawn of PPMs, so direct comparisons between the Sunny/B era and B alone are tenuous at best. Perhaps Sunny and the B combined for a number more like 17 but it just wasn't measured...we'll never really know.

I honestly don't think 98 or 106 will suddenly go to all Christmas before the Halloween pumpkins have been thrown in the compost heap. But even if one did, I'm standing by the assertion that the threat to the B is more imagined than real. Yes, they'll respond more quickly than in the past, but I don't believe when the final numbers come in, they'll still be on top of the heap. When Sunny went to Christmas even more rediculously early one year, the B simply did a tease-and-freeze campaign letting listeners know it was coming soon, but that "you told us" it was just a little too early. Complete somkescreen unless they really did listen to people like me who don't like Winter Wonderland at Labor Day, but that's neither here nor there. It worked, and "first mover" status even for Sunny, with a year or more under its belt, didn't make them a serious threat.
 
Well, we do have to consider the dawn of PPMs, so direct comparisons between the Sunny/B era and B alone are tenuous at best. Perhaps Sunny and the B combined for a number more like 17 but it just wasn't measured...we'll never really know.
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I thought about that already but for the purpose of discussing revenue implications of the all-Christmas format, the comparison is pointless. Regardless of whether the format was actually getting a 17-share in years past when it wasn't being measured properly, it's getting it now. That's why the notion that more people will want to do it makes sense.

Quick illustration: If FREE-FM's Talk format was doing poorly month after month, none of the programmers in town would care why, they'd just ignore the format. But if it was suddenly revealed that it was being measured improperly and had in fact been getting a 10-share, owners aren't going to care about what was happening in the past. They're gonna go after that 10-share and you can bet more than one station would jump on the Trashy Offensive FM Talk format a.s.a.p. Can ya dig it? :)

I honestly don't think 98 or 106 will suddenly go to all Christmas before the Halloween pumpkins have been thrown in the compost heap. But even if one did, I'm standing by the assertion that the threat to the B is more imagined than real. Yes, they'll respond more quickly than in the past, but I don't believe when the final numbers come in, they'll still be on top of the heap. When Sunny went to Christmas even more rediculously early one year, the B simply did a tease-and-freeze campaign letting listeners know it was coming soon, but that "you told us" it was just a little too early. Complete somkescreen unless they really did listen to people like me who don't like Winter Wonderland at Labor Day, but that's neither here nor there. It worked, and "first mover" status even for Sunny, with a year or more under its belt, didn't make them a serious threat.
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I always find these B101 vs. Sunny 104.5 comparisons interesting but uneven. Does anyone on these boards really think Sunny ever expected to beat B101 with the all-Christmas format? For real, peeps: that was never Clear Channel's intention.

B101's all-Christmas format builds itself atop an enormous regular audience. (Sure, a few people tune away but that number of listeners is eclipsed by the number of non-regular B101 listeners who tune in.) No matter how well another station does the format (and let's be honest: B101's all-Christmas format has been lackluster at best), it would be nearly impossible to beat B101. Sunny was building on 3-shares while B101 was building on 6- and 7-shares. Even the boneheads at Clear Channel Philadelphia are smart enough to be realistic about that.

That having been said, I stand by my original theory. The only way to put some coal in B101's stocking would be if two stations in town were doing the format well in advance. If 97.5 flips at 5:00 p.m., My 106.1 flips fifteen minutes later, and B101 flips at 8:00 p.m., B101's Christmas book will probably not take too big a hit vs. 2007. But if 97.5 flips at 5:00 p.m., 106.1 flips at midnight, and B101 stands their ground, that's where some things might change. This is a word-of-mouth format which a lot of people obviously tune to as soon as they know it's on. I disagree with the notion that, after a week or two of listening to it on 97.5 and/or 106.1 (or 98.1 or whichever), people will turn to their husband in the passenger seat and say "Oh, wait. B101 is doing it now too? Switch it to 101, honey!" It's about timing, timing, timing! And a little luck.

I'm sure people will want to disagree with this theory and that's completely awesome but please keep in mind, this is not about beating B101. Let's pretend for a second that the all-Christmas format will garner the same audience share as last year. If it gets 97.5 a 5-share and B101 a 12-share, Greater Media will still be very happy. If three stations do it and B101 gets a 9-share while 97.5 and 106.1 split an 8-share, everyone will be quite content!
 
Weather it's a good idea or a bad idea remains to be seen. Point is, it is AN IDEA...and at least someone is doing something to shake things up.

Just heard them play a clip of Charlie Manuel saying Christmas came two months early! Nice!!
 
The 10 or so songs I heard on Now 97.5 sounded like what Sunny would have played. First song was It's The Most Wonderful Time of The Year, second was It's Beginning To Look A Lot Like Christmas.

It's lucky for them to flip to all-Christmas on the day of the Phillies parade
 
Soon Yi CIV.V said:
I always find these B101 vs. Sunny 104.5 comparisons interesting but uneven. Does anyone on these boards really think Sunny ever expected to beat B101 with the all-Christmas format? For real, peeps: that was never Clear Channel's intention.

B101's all-Christmas format builds itself atop an enormous regular audience. (Sure, a few people tune away but that number of listeners is eclipsed by the number of non-regular B101 listeners who tune in.) No matter how well another station does the format (and let's be honest: B101's all-Christmas format has been lackluster at best), it would be nearly impossible to beat B101. Sunny was building on 3-shares while B101 was building on 6- and 7-shares. Even the boneheads at Clear Channel Philadelphia are smart enough to be realistic about that.

That having been said, I stand by my original theory. The only way to put some coal in B101's stocking would be if two stations in town were doing the format well in advance. If 97.5 flips at 5:00 p.m., My 106.1 flips fifteen minutes later, and B101 flips at 8:00 p.m., B101's Christmas book will probably not take too big a hit vs. 2007. But if 97.5 flips at 5:00 p.m., 106.1 flips at midnight, and B101 stands their ground, that's where some things might change. This is a word-of-mouth format which a lot of people obviously tune to as soon as they know it's on. I disagree with the notion that, after a week or two of listening to it on 97.5 and/or 106.1 (or 98.1 or whichever), people will turn to their husband in the passenger seat and say "Oh, wait. B101 is doing it now too? Switch it to 101, honey!" It's about timing, timing, timing! And a little luck.

I'm sure people will want to disagree with this theory and that's completely awesome but please keep in mind, this is not about beating B101. Let's pretend for a second that the all-Christmas format will garner the same audience share as last year. If it gets 97.5 a 5-share and B101 a 12-share, Greater Media will still be very happy. If three stations do it and B101 gets a 9-share while 97.5 and 106.1 split an 8-share, everyone will be quite content!
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Agreed that if everyone gets a nice chunk of a 17 (if it happens again) all will be happy. I'm saying there's not enough pent-up demand on Hallow-freekin-ween ;) that people will be falling all over themselves to tune in 97.5 ("Who?") or 106.1 ("Are they still jazz?"). No offense to Mr. Klien, but seriously a little blurb on the gossip page isn't going to motivate a fifth of the radio audience to suddenly jump to a ho-ho-ho station now.

I base my theory on the B not losing sleep or suffering mightily on two parts: (1) few people outside of this wholly unrepresentative board will care that a little known sound-alike station decided that we don't even need to be in mid-November before going with wall to wall Christmas; (2) B 101's listeners aren't jonsing so badly for a Christmas fix that they'll tune away from 101 because maybe, just maybe, 106 or 98 decided to beat them to the punch; and (3) yeah, I do think that when the advertising blizzard starts, a good chunk (the majority actually) of the portion that did sample the Christmas songs will for whatever reason--intentionally or by pure habit--come back to the B.

Sure, I realize Greater Media can't (if they're sane) think they can beat B 101 head on. And honestly, I think their short-term money grab here over the next eight weeks will do them more harm than good in the long run if they really intend Now to be a serious player (not a winner, but a serious player). But hey, money in your pocket is tough to turn down...
 
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