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WNUW vs. WBEB

G

Gregg

When Greater Media gave up on Smooth Jazz on 97.3 a couple of years ago, they thought they'd go after WBEB. Why not? The station is not just #1 among all listeners, it's also #1 in the most important demos: Adults 25-54 and Women 25-54.

The two stations at first sounded similar, except WNUW went a liittle younger. Almost no songs before 1980, no Bette Midler or Neil Diamond or Barbra Streisand... and few Celine Dion or Josh Grobin or Michael Buble songs. Run ads that talk about sounding younger, even choose call letters that stress "New."

For a while both stations were even using a pre-recorded female voice at the end of each song to tell us the title and artist. And in response, WBEB eliminated many of the pre-1980 titles, got rid of the Streisand-Diamond-Midler tunes and reduced the Dion-Grobin-Buble songs. And WBEB rolled out bus ads and billboards that stressed WBEB is now brighter and more contemporary. Unfortunately, Greater Media tried to save itself a few bucks by not filling all the dayparts with DJs right away. Save a few $50,000 salaries and lose a million in ad revenue. WNUW's ratings were never a threat to WBEB except when both stations were playing holiday music between mid-November and Christmas.

So what did WNUW do? Logic would say, if WBEB throws out the more mature titles, 97.3 should add them. Maybe even go back for some artists like The Carpenters and Barry Manilow. Yes, that might give you some 55+ listeners you really can't sell to agencies. But if you can improve your 12+ ratings, you can sell that to Mom & Pop retailers. They're not so sophisticated that they know the difference. And maybe you pick up a lot of 45-54 listeners that still count in the 25-54 demo and are now disappointed in the new sound of WBEB.

If WBEB is so solid 25-54, why not go slightly older? Why is the ONLY answer when a new AC station goes against an established leader, that the new station always has to aim younger? If WBEB is the favorite station of agencies for winning 25-54, why would WNUW go to Hot AC as the answer? If WBEB has the best ratings in Philly, surely you would say to yourself, there's plenty of room to start a slightly more mature station to compete with WBEB.

In the latest ratings, WBEB is in the sevens and WNUW is in the ones.





Gregg
[email protected]
 
Interesting insight, Gregg, but the harsh reality is that today, there is no room for terrestrial radio for a station that plays the likes of Streisand and the Carpenters. Certainly, it's the case for stations that refer to themselves as "oldies" stations (although there is still some leeway in smaller markets like New London, CT to do so).
 
B 101 wasn't exactly playing "Babs" before WNUW showed up. You'd also be hard pressed to say the lack of midday DJs cost them a million bucks in revenue.
 
What I find most amazing is that 94.5 WPST out of Trenton beats 97.5 WNUW in the Philly ratings. Did WPST have higher Philly ratings on 97.5 than Now has now? WPST is harder to get in parts of the Philly market (Chester County)with a religious station on 94.5 as well.
 
I think the call letters aren't supposed to stress "New", although it does look that way. I think the "WNOW" calls weren't available, and "WNUW" was the closest they could come. About them versus B101, I don't think they were ever going to topple The Bee. But I do think they could have taken audience from them, and they could have done fairly well. To me, they made a few errors when they first came on the air.

First, Glenn Kalina was not the right morning guy for a soft rock station. If they wanted to take from B101, in my opinion, they could have tapped a couple of ex-B101 jocks. Chris McCoy works for Greater Media in New Jersey. He was B101's morning guy for what, 10 years? Or, they had a guy in that building who that audience may have recognized. Jason Lee was on Ben-FM at the time, and he was at B for a while too. Kalina is good, but I don't know if he was the right guy for them at the time.

Second, they came on the air with the new format and said they were taking a youthful approach, or something along those lines. But they still played lots of old songs. They didn't sound that different from B101 to me. They'd say they were younger, but then go into a song from 1973. I think the idea was great. Try to go younger and make B101 seem like they're old. But I don't think they executed it well.

Finally, the switch to Christmas music hurt them. Yes, I know they got huge numbers for that two months, or however long they did the Christmas music. But they had just flipped from Jazz to Soft Rock only a few months before this. So, they spent a few months trying to establish the new format, and then BOOM, they pull the plug on that for Christmas. I think, long term, that hurt them.

Just my opinion.
 
I remember some years ago when KOST and KBIG were the two big Soft AC stations in Los Angeles. KOST was the first to make the transition from Easy Listening to all vocals. The station had much success.

Then KBIG made the transition. It was indistinguishable from KOST. The music was the same. Both stations had male-female morning teams... KOST was something like Mike and Jill, KBIG countered with something like Dave and Debbie. They even took their breaks around the same time. You'd walk into a store or office and couldn't tell which station was on till they took a break.

What happened? KOST stayed the top AC station in LA, usually around #4 or 5, where it still is today. And KBIG was always in the top 10, usually around #7 or 8. Since they had a slightly stronger signal, KBIG was usually #1 or #2 in Orange County, when that was a separate book, with KOST a few spaces behind. And that's where both stations remained till their parent companies were both bought by Clear Channel, which then took KBIG in a more uptempo direction so it wouldn't compete directly with KOST.

If WNUW had gone directly after WBEB, even if they wanted to advertise themselves as younger, I'm sure they'd be doing much better than they are now. But I still think that if they sounded today like B101 sounded 5-10 years ago, maybe using some of the dismissed B101 DJs as mentioned by JaMa, they might have stolen even more of WBEB's audience, especially those who aren't happy with recent changes. After all, the people who were listening to B101 5-10 years ago didn't disappear or move away. And not all of them aged out of the 25-54 demo.


Gregg
[email protected]
 
At this point, isn't WNUW an Adult Top 40 more than anything else? I wouldn't classify them as an A/C at all. I looked at their playlist on yes.com, and it seems like a hip-hop free Top 40. Michael Franti, Black Eyed Peas, Katy Perry, Kings of Leon, etc...

They actually sound a lot like WPST during the day...
 
Yes, WNUW has evolved into a CHR-type station. But that's kind of the point of a lot of this discussion. They changed their direction after doing soft rock didn't work. Not that this has worked for them either...
 
Why don't they go after ripe for the picking OGL, you can see their slide is beginning, 97.5 should be the 50's-60's real oldies station, but not the same 50's-60's stale cuts, a broader range of oldies and we all know what that is, it is what no other oldies station did since WCAU-FM's 1970-75 reign, it couldn't hurt...yes I know the demos....
 
Since they're still in the one's, they should go all-Christmas this year on Halloween, sound exactly like they did last year, and then radically change the format next year. Would they rather remain in the ones for 2 months, or climb up to the 4's for 2 months, and keep those extra listeners in January?
They'd probably be better off sounding like the Now in New York City.
 
oasisrulz said:
Why don't they go after ripe for the picking OGL, you can see their slide is beginning, 97.5 should be the 50's-60's real oldies station, but not the same 50's-60's stale cuts, a broader range of oldies and we all know what that is, it is what no other oldies station did since WCAU-FM's 1970-75 reign, it couldn't hurt...yes I know the demos....
Click to expand...

Because taking that approach would do them no better in total viewers and, yes, far worse in the demos, and they do matter.
 
oasisrulz said:
Why don't they go after ripe for the picking OGL, you can see their slide is beginning, 97.5 should be the 50's-60's real oldies station, but not the same 50's-60's stale cuts, a broader range of oldies and we all know what that is, it is what no other oldies station did since WCAU-FM's 1970-75 reign, it couldn't hurt...yes I know the demos....
Click to expand...

WOGL is beginning to slide? That's hilarious. They're one of the most stable and consistant stations in the city.

If you play a song from 1955, someone who grew up with that song (figure, at the age of 20 at the time) is now around 74 years old. People who grew-up with songs from the 70s are beginning to exit the 25-54 demo!
 
I agree with Gregg. Softer would have been the better angle to attack. It didn't have to be extremely soft or old, just a little softer than WBEB.

Something like WLYF/Miami. They are softer than most ACs these days. I don't think they play Streisand or Manilow but they do play songs like Billy Joel-Just the way you are and Spnners-Could it be I'm falling in love. Lot's of 70s and 80s titles along with more current music. They have a slight soul crossover lean. They don't play anything too hard or rock sounding. They are #1 with a 9.7 share, three shares ahead of the nearest competitor. It's not all older demos either, they are #1 women 25-54.

WNUW going softer would have been thinking out of the box and could have made a strategic impact. Being a little harder is doing what you are supposed to do but it can get you ignored and lost in the shuffle. Of course now they are full blown Hot AC. A format I know has failed in Philly several times before.
 
They have been through 3 PD's since the flip. Their sound keeps changing. You can not create an audience doing that. I think they need to go Hot AC. rhythmic music is what the soccer moms are listening to
 
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