WNVR 1030kHz Granted CP for 10kW

[stormy01]

WNVR at 1030kHz (City of License Vernon Hills, IL; Transmitter/Towers approximately 5 miles SE of Woodstock, IL; Studios believed to be in Chicago - Belmont Ave.) has been granted a construction permit as of September 23, 2008. It appears that no major changes will be made to the towers, only phasing (Tower Reference Switch) in order to accomodate the increased power, and the transmitter will be upgraded from 5 to 10kW. The primary service area appears to be increased about 5 miles further out along its perimeter (radio-info).

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/Auth_Files/1216081.pdf

http://www.polskieradio.com/firma.aspx

 

[JustinT]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

The transmitter was originally located in Vernon Hills, IL on the unused part of a cemetery, when it was first put on the air as a 500 watt non-directional facility. After being sold to POLNET Communications, an engineering study was done and the location in Woodstock was found to allow a power increase. Now at 10 KW it will cover the north parts of Chicago and better serve the Polish community.

 

[w9wi]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

It must be strong enough daytime to meet the regulations...

WNVR is a Class D station, so it's not required to provide a city-grade signal across Vernon Hills at night.

 

[genghis]

Big waste of electricity if you ask me. They will never make their money back on the cost of the new transmitter and the doubled electric bill.

 

[Prais]

Mr. Genghis, with all due respect, how wrong you are.

POlnet is very smart - and very rich. Want to buy time? There is NO official rate card for that. The time is sold at an auction, and you wouldn't bellieve the deals that are made, many with cash bow and cash in advance.

I have been associated with WEAW, WOPA, WCRW, WEDC, WTAQ, and helped start 750 wndz and some others.

The station to which you refer will be a gold mine. The "doubled" electric bill isn't even a blip on the radar.

 

[JustinT]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

It must be strong enough daytime to meet the regulations...

WNVR is a Class D station, so it's not required to provide a city-grade signal across Vernon Hills at night.

Oh okay, that clears up my question. I had previously thought that all AMs had to be able to cover their COL during the day and at least a substantial part of the city/village at night, citing the example of WKOX in Framingham (now Newton), MA.

 

[ddybas]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

It must be strong enough daytime to meet the regulations...

WNVR is a Class D station, so it's not required to provide a city-grade signal across Vernon Hills at night.

Oh okay, that clears up my question. I had previously thought that all AMs had to be able to cover their COL during the day and at least a substantial part of the city/village at night, citing the example of WKOX in Framingham (now Newton), MA.

The night signal is actually a North/South, figure "8" pattern, with very little signal going East/West from Woodstock, Illinois. The night signal isn't on the air to make money ...but it does add some stick value to the station.

Additionally, with Chicago having the largest Polish population in the USA. WNVR's all Polish programming does command a pretty decent buck. Again proving that Arbitron ratings aren't always necessary to make money.

I believe it's making more $$ than WIND which does have some, albiet small, Arbitron ratings.

 

[w9wi]

I'm puzzled how that station got a Vernon Hills COL, it doesn't sound overly great there during the day and is completely unlistenable in the village at night.

It must be strong enough daytime to meet the regulations...

WNVR is a Class D station, so it's not required to provide a city-grade signal across Vernon Hills at night.

Oh okay, that clears up my question. I had previously thought that all AMs had to be able to cover their COL during the day and at least a substantial part of the city/village at night, citing the example of WKOX in Framingham (now Newton), MA.

Class A, B, and C stations must cover the entire COL day and night. (WKOX is Class B)

Class D stations are "daytimers" - most of which were at one time actually only allowed to operate during the day. (and thus couldn't cover any of the COL at night, because they weren't on the air!) Most of them now have some amount of night power, but that power was usually assigned by the FCC based on how much they could run without interfering with anyone else, not what it would take to cover the COL. For what it's worth, the FCC no longer accepts applications for new Class D stations. They will however allow technical changes to existing Class D's.

Back in the 60s-70s a fair number of daytimers changed COL to get night power. Their daytime facilities could cover the whole major city, but there was no way they could get enough night power to cover the existing COL - so they relicensed to a geographically smaller suburb they *could* cover. Can't think of any in the Chicago area offhand but 1290 in Milwaukee is an example, having "moved" to Greenfield to get night power. 1430 and 1470 here in Nashville are other examples.

 

[radiotower40]

When you mentioned that the FCC not licensing any new Class D stations it got me thinking. I'm I correct that the last Class D
that was licensed in the whole U.S. was WNDZ 750 AM? While I'm on the subject, does anyone think now that they are 15KW
day with 3 towers, that they have a chance of getting a nightime authorization? I know they tried to change the
COL from Portage, In. to Calumet City, Il. and were denied.

 

[w9wi]

When you mentioned that the FCC not licensing any new Class D stations it got me thinking. I'm I correct that the last Class D
that was licensed in the whole U.S. was WNDZ 750 AM? While I'm on the subject, does anyone think now that they are 15KW
day with 3 towers, that they have a chance of getting a nightime authorization? I know they tried to change the
COL from Portage, In. to Calumet City, Il. and were denied.

I don't know of any good way to tell if WNDZ was the last Class D. It's possible.

I think the reason the move to Calumet City was denied was because there is no other radio station licensed to Portage. You can't move a city's only station. (as Kovacs recently learned with regard to WMCW-1600 up in Harvard. So they just surrendered the WMCW license for cancellation.)

I would certainly think some amount of night power could be obtained into the existing antenna. (On the other hand, if Class D night power was possible, why hasn't the FCC already assigned it? Maybe they're closer to WSB than I think?) Getting out of Class D status would require they be able to run enough night power to cover all of Portage without interfering with WSB. That might not be possible. In any case I suspect the station feels any night facility they could get would not provide enough signal across the target audience to be worth the effort.

 

[T2909]

Does anyone know when WNVR will be 10kw? I am from West Allis, Wis., a suberb of Milwaukee, and their signal can be heard clear, but you have to turn up the volume a little. If you have an AM antenna booster, you can hear WNVR quite well.


WNDZ-750 has 15kw with Spanish programs from 8am-1pm.


Tom

 

[cyberdad]

Per Radio Locator, I don't think the power increase would be particularly noticeable in suburban Milwaukee, but you might not have to turn up the volume quite so much.

As for nighttime. I agree with the "purely for stick value" comment. They don't even stay on all night, and they're not exactly putting a listenable signal into the area where the bulk of the Chicagoland Polish-American community is located.

 

[MarcB]

POlnet is very smart - and very rich. Want to buy time? There is NO official rate card for that. The time is sold at an auction, and you wouldn't bellieve the deals that are made, many with cash bow and cash in advance.

Yeah. The entire broadcast day of their Long Island, New York station WLIM 1580 is leased out to a group programming Spanish Music as Radio Formula USA. http://www.radio-formula.us/ And from the looks of that site it looks like they also run Radio Formula on WPJX 1500.

 

[radioaircheck]

ENERGY 1030

 

[MarcB]

Yeah. The entire broadcast day of their Long Island, New York station WLIM 1580 is leased out to a group programming Spanish Music as Radio Formula USA. http://www.radio-formula.us/ And from the looks of that site it looks like they also run Radio Formula on WPJX 1500.

Spoke to soon. WLIM in Patchogue, Long Island flipped formats and is now yet another Spanish Jesus Caster. And there are so many in that area too.

 

[[email protected]]

Does anyone know when WNVR will be 10kw? I am from West Allis, Wis., a suberb of Milwaukee, and their signal can be heard clear, but you have to turn up the volume a little. If you have an AM antenna booster, you can hear WNVR quite well.

Tom

There are a few technical details that yet need to be addressed, the station is operating at about 7KW currently. The full 10KW should be up some time early in 2009.

Dave Dybas

 

[cyberdad]

There are a few technical details that yet need to be addressed, the station is operating at about 7KW currently. The full 10KW should be up some time early in 2009.

Dave Dybas

Whatever....being less than two miles from their stick, they're a major pest here during daytime. At night however (when they're even broadcasting), WBZ is clearly audible underneath.

 

[DanStrassberg]

Class A, B, and C stations must cover the entire COL day and night. (WKOX is Class B)

WRONG! Class B AMs are required to deliver an NIF (nighttime interference-free) signal to 80% of the population of the CoL NOT 100%. Relatively few new or changed Class B AMs deliver NIF to the entire CoL.

As for Class C AMs, if a change is being made, the new facilities are supposed to meet the same rules as those for Class B AMs BUT the vast majority of Class Cs are so far from meeting that requirement that, if they increase CoL coverage by even a tiny amount, they are generally able to obtain a waiver of the 80% requirement. In one recent case (KYPA) which is a forced move from a rooftop site to a diplex with co-owned KBLA 1580 (KYPA was unable to renew the lease on its old site), not only did the FCC allow a reduction in night coverage of the CoL, it also allowed DA-1 operation--AFAIK. the first-ever nighttime DA for a US Class C AM.

As for no more Class D AMs being permitted, well, yes and no. The FCC won't accept applications for NEW Class D AMs, BUT if you own a Class B or C AM, the FCC WILL allow you to "upgrade" it to a Class D--even if the "upgrade" involves a move to a new CoL quite far from the original CoL. These Class D "upgrades" have been the salvation of dozens of Class B AMs that lost directional sites but were able to go ND--sometimes by adding ground systems and skirt-fed (Folded Unipole) antennas to existing cell towers.

 

[stormy01]

ENERGY 1030 ...They are already (judging by some of the music they play)... in Polish
All kidding aside, judging by my S-meter, which is now pegged at S9+60dB, WNVR must be now at 10KW.
This change must have happened very recently. I'm about 10 miles east/southeast of their transmitter site.