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WNVR 1030kHz Granted CP for 10kW
- Thread starter stormy01
- Start date
stormy01 said:cyberdad said:Per Radio-Locator.com I don't think the power increase would be particularly noticeable in suburban Milwaukee, but you might not have to turn up the volume quite so much.
As for nighttime. I agree with the "purely for stick value" comment. They don't even stay on all night, and they're not exactly putting a listenable signal into the area where the bulk of the Chicagoland Polish-American community is located.
Wonder why WNVR wouldn't try to operate from a separate site at night in or near the NW side of Chicago...or diplex off of the Polnet-owned WKTA/WEEF tower site in Northbrook at night, that would be a lot closer than Woodstock to reach the target audience!
They're not going to reach anybody in their target from Woodstock.
I was told...operating the nightime from a location closer to Chicago was not possible due to a signal protection issue with AM-1000...but somehow that doesn't make sense, afterall AM-1000 is 3 channels away.
Maybe it has more to do with all the existing antennas they have in Northbrook for WKTA and WEEF.
Maybe it has more to do with all the existing antennas they have in Northbrook for WKTA and WEEF.
Well, it's fun to speculate - one would think that Polnet has thought of this already. (They do stream online so perhaps they didn't think 120 watts was worth the trouble) I tried picturing what the "overlay" of their 'city grade' signal (from the Woodstock site) would look like if the transmitter site was shared with WKTA/WEEF in Northbrook, and it appears that they would hit their COL Vernon Hills at night, as well as the North Shore and the Northwest side of Chicago. I wouldn't imagine it would be too hard to "triplex" 3 directional stations on 4 (6?) towers*... after all they already a diplexing 2 stations only 100kHz apart, so 1030 would be 300kHz away from WKTA and 400kHz away from WEEF. As for the 30kHz separation between WMVP and WNVR, in the North East the stations are "short-spaced" even more so than in the Midwest... how about WEPN and KYW for example?
* Driving by the site recently on the Tri-State Tollway it appears that 2 towers have been added between the original 4 towers.
* Driving by the site recently on the Tri-State Tollway it appears that 2 towers have been added between the original 4 towers.
stormy01 said:Well, it's fun to speculate - one would think that Polnet has thought of this already. (They do stream online so perhaps they didn't think 120 watts was worth the trouble) I tried picturing what the "overlay" of their 'city grade' signal (from the Woodstock site) would look like if the transmitter site was shared with WKTA/WEEF in Northbrook, and it appears that they would hit their COL Vernon Hills at night, as well as the North Shore and the Northwest side of Chicago. I wouldn't imagine it would be too hard to "triplex" 3 directional stations on 4 (6?) towers*... after all they already a diplexing 2 stations only 100kHz apart, so 1030 would be 300kHz away from WKTA and 400kHz away from WEEF. As for the 30kHz separation between WMVP and WNVR, in the North East the stations are "short-spaced" even more so than in the Midwest... how about WEPN and KYW for example?
* Driving by the site recently on the Tri-State Tollway it appears that 2 towers have been added between the original 4 towers.
I also noticed the 2 extra towers.
I noticed that 1330 seems to be pumping out more juice lately, but 1430 seems to be the same.
1030 used to be heard in it's city of license at night when they were using the tower at the cemetary in unincorporated Mundelein / Vernon Hills. I remember that the tower came down around 2002. They used to broadcast a live news/talk format received by satellite from Poland.
A couple weeks ago I was driving thru Crystal Lake at night, and 1030 was not on the air. Last year I recall at night they were running the same song over and over again.
IMO, Polnet should try to get the 1030 signal on the air at night in the COL instead of wanting to increase the daytime signal which is already quite good.
1030 used to be heard in it's city of license at night when they were using the tower at the cemetary in unincorporated Mundelein / Vernon Hills. I remember that the tower came down around 2002. They used to broadcast a live news/talk format received by satellite from Poland.
A couple weeks ago I was driving thru Crystal Lake at night, and 1030 was not on the air. Last year I recall at night they were running the same song over and over again.
IMO, Polnet should try to get the 1030 signal on the air at night in the COL instead of wanting to increase the daytime signal which is already quite good.
avtosalon said:I noticed that 1330 seems to be pumping out more juice lately, but 1430 seems to be the same.
/ -- /
IMO, Polnet should try to get the 1030 signal on the air at night in the COL instead of wanting to increase the daytime signal which is already quite good.
WKTA may be making changes to their towers to accommodate the new 110 watt signal at night (I have no idea if that is running yet from my location), though the FCC information shows their 5kW daytime signal delivers the same field strength for their current authorization and their construction permit.
It will be interesting to see how the 110 watts does for WKTA at night, especially since WVHI has been coming in quite well from Evansville lately. I too have noticed a better daytime signal recently for 1330, though I just figured that they "tuned" up their towers after adding WEEF to the site. WEEF has been coming in far better here (just east of Crystal Lake) since they moved from the Aptakisic Rd. site to the Dundee Rd./Tri-State Tollway site, even though that's further away now from my location.
A number of us could tell Polnet by email, phone or postal mail that they want the WNVR night signal improved (added!) since it has already increased the daytime signal to 10kW. It's possible the Polnet management or their engineering staff/consultants never thought of running 2 sites for the same frequency... The WNVR night signal at 120 watts was only listenable over a larger area (possibly 15 miles out) when there was auroral activity and skywave reception from WBZ was at a minimum, otherwise, only
2-5 miles tops from the Woodstock transmitter site depending on where you were in the 'lobes' when WBZ was coming in normally. No wonder WNVR quit broadcasting at night!
WBZ blew WNVR away in the near north suburbs. WNVR at night was a lost cause.
Way back when ( about 1998 ) WNVR actually had a night signal out of Vernon Hills. The FCC allowed WNVR aprox 17 watts non-directional from that location. The signal barely made it out of Vernon Hills and couldn't be heard more than 5 miles away due to the co-channel interference. They'd need to develop a directional signal to move back from Woodstock to anywhere near Vernon Hills/Northbrook. Considering the cost of such a project, aprox $100k just for transmitter and antenna stuff, I'm thinking that it won't happen.
BTW: The stations original transmitter site was in a cemetary on Rt-45 about 1 mile east of Butterfield Road. The station was licensed at 500 watts non-directional daytime. The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
So ..how many Polish Engineers does it take to improve an AM radio stations coverage? };>)
BTW: The stations original transmitter site was in a cemetary on Rt-45 about 1 mile east of Butterfield Road. The station was licensed at 500 watts non-directional daytime. The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
So ..how many Polish Engineers does it take to improve an AM radio stations coverage? };>)
[email protected] said:Way back when ( about 1998 ) WNVR actually had a night signal out of Vernon Hills. The FCC allowed WNVR aprox 17 watts non-directional from that location. The signal barely made it out of Vernon Hills and couldn't be heard more than 5 miles away due to the co-channel interference. They'd need to develop a directional signal to move back from Woodstock to anywhere near Vernon Hills/Northbrook. Considering the cost of such a project, aprox $100k just for transmitter and antenna stuff, I'm thinking that it won't happen.
BTW: The stations original transmitter site was in a cemetary on Rt-45 about 1 mile east of Butterfield Road. The station was licensed at 500 watts non-directional daytime. The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
So ..how many Polish Engineers does it take to improve an AM radio stations coverage? };>)
From what I'm reading on this board WNVR doesn't appear to be concerned about their night coverage.
[email protected] said:I was told...operating the nightime from a location closer to Chicago was not possible due to a signal protection issue with AM-1000...but somehow that doesn't make sense, afterall AM-1000 is 3 channels away.
You have to be separated by at least four channels before the amount of coverage overlap is unlimited.
FCC regulation 73.37 establishes adjacent-channel interference limits. WNVR cannot locate its transmitter in such a way that their 25mV/m signal would intersect with WMVP's.
I'm not sure how far WMVP's 25mV/m contour extends, but their coverage map on Radio Locator (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WMVP&service=AM&status=L&hours=D) shows their 2.5mV/m extending to Milwaukee's South Side. I would not be at all surprised if the location of WNVR's night facility is indeed limited by WMVP.
w9wi said:[email protected] said:I was told...operating the nightime from a location closer to Chicago was not possible due to a signal protection issue with AM-1000...but somehow that doesn't make sense, afterall AM-1000 is 3 channels away.
You have to be separated by at least four channels before the amount of coverage overlap is unlimited.
FCC regulation 73.37 establishes adjacent-channel interference limits. WNVR cannot locate its transmitter in such a way that their 25mV/m signal would intersect with WMVP's.
I'm not sure how far WMVP's 25mV/m contour extends, but their coverage map on Radio Locator (http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WMVP&service=AM&status=L&hours=D) shows their 2.5mV/m extending to Milwaukee's South Side. I would not be at all surprised if the location of WNVR's night facility is indeed limited by WMVP.
Is this for night coverage only? The station in Portage, In on 750 is right between WGN & WBBM.
radioman148 said:From what I'm reading on this board WNVR doesn't appear to be concerned about their night coverage.[email protected] said:/--/The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
"and if all goes well 20kW" How would it be possible that WNVR could get 20kW? Wouldn't they have increased to 20kW right away, if that's the maximum power possible with neighboring stations? It has to be more expensive to incrementally raise the power by exchanging transmitters!
"WNVR doesn't appear to be concerned about their night coverage" WNVR a/k/a PolskieRadio does promote their website http://www.polskieradio.com heavily on air, so when the daytime signal goes off the air, most of their listeners are probably already home for the evening, and listen online... Wouldn't be surprised if they are considering to get on a cellular
phone application such as Pandora, LaVella, Nokia Internet Radio, etc...
The 10KW upgrade was basically an increase in transmitter power while keeping the same directional antenna system and operating parameters. The 20Kw increase will require additional towers and some major engineering design changes...POLNET wasn't financially ready for that so they only went to 10Kw.
Just being curious, would WNVR be able to use that 17 watt signal they were granted for the Vernon Hills[email protected] said:Way back when ( about 1998 ) WNVR actually had a night signal out of Vernon Hills. The FCC allowed WNVR aprox 17 watts non-directional from that location. The signal barely made it out of Vernon Hills and couldn't be heard more than 5 miles away due to the co-channel interference. They'd need to develop a directional signal to move back from Woodstock to anywhere near Vernon Hills/Northbrook. Considering the cost of such a project, aprox $100k just for transmitter and antenna stuff, I'm thinking that it won't happen.
BTW: The stations original transmitter site was in a cemetary on Rt-45 about 1 mile east of Butterfield Road. The station was licensed at 500 watts non-directional daytime. The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
So ..how many Polish Engineers does it take to improve an AM radio stations coverage? };>)
site, at the Northbrook site? How long was the 17 watts used for?
TR1992 said:Just being curious, would WNVR be able to use that 17 watt signal they were granted for the Vernon Hills[email protected] said:Way back when ( about 1998 ) WNVR actually had a night signal out of Vernon Hills. The FCC allowed WNVR aprox 17 watts non-directional from that location. The signal barely made it out of Vernon Hills and couldn't be heard more than 5 miles away due to the co-channel interference. They'd need to develop a directional signal to move back from Woodstock to anywhere near Vernon Hills/Northbrook. Considering the cost of such a project, aprox $100k just for transmitter and antenna stuff, I'm thinking that it won't happen.
BTW: The stations original transmitter site was in a cemetary on Rt-45 about 1 mile east of Butterfield Road. The station was licensed at 500 watts non-directional daytime. The move to Woodstock gave them 5KW and now 10Kw and if all goes well 20Kw some time in the next few years.
So ..how many Polish Engineers does it take to improve an AM radio stations coverage? };>)
site, at the Northbrook site? How long was the 17 watts used for?
I don't think it would help them very much. WBZ would still bury them in the city.
Prais said:WBZ comes in like a blowtorch at night in Chicago.
It sure does. I don't think with the power they're allowed to run that WNVR has a usable signal at night unless you're right next to the transmitter.
I bet the WNVR studio monitor would pick up wbz - maybe a bit more than just iin the background.
About 30 years ago I was briefly interested in buying the Woodstock (IL) FM station. At that time the transmitter was in a trailer just down the road from WJEZ. I was blown away by the fact that at the transmitter, WJEZ came in LOUDER that the Woodstock station (call letters forgotten - but what a dump!).
Speaking of dumps, that same day we looked at the Dundee fm. Have either of those facilities "improved" any? We wound up buying WFDT, Columbia City, IN shortly there after. It was a better engineered "dump."
About 30 years ago I was briefly interested in buying the Woodstock (IL) FM station. At that time the transmitter was in a trailer just down the road from WJEZ. I was blown away by the fact that at the transmitter, WJEZ came in LOUDER that the Woodstock station (call letters forgotten - but what a dump!).
Speaking of dumps, that same day we looked at the Dundee fm. Have either of those facilities "improved" any? We wound up buying WFDT, Columbia City, IN shortly there after. It was a better engineered "dump."
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