WNVR GOT A CP TO BOOST POWER AND BUILD A NEW SITE.

[radiotower40]

WNVR AM1030, has gotten a CP to boost their day power to 27kW, CH to 8kW and nights to .21kW.

During the day and during CH, they will be on six towers, at night 5 towers.

This really boosts their daytime range well out past Rockford, up to Milwaukee and close to
city grade out to Madison, it also improves their signal south into the city, from about Aurora
to just south of the Loop. This is only their 5mV coverage, their secondary coverage goes all
the way out to about the IL/IA border. It also extends them all the way past Kankakee and
Michigan City. It also slightly extends their signal at night, a little going north and south and
east, while nulling it a little more than now to the west.

It looks as if they will need to build 6 new towers for the upgrade. I may be wrong on that but the
current towers are electrically and physically short and top loaded. The new pattern calls for much
higher electrical length.

This is really going to give them a good signal.

I do have a question though, isn't unusual to get that kind of power increase so close to
50kW WMVP? The spacing of the two stations is not that far. Would this kind of upgrade be
allowed if WNVR was southeast of WMVP. I would think that if they built the site in the suburbs
and made it much more directional to the N/NW that they would have even stronger coverage
in the city. The new pattern also overlaps all of WLIP's city grade coverage, which is only
two ticks down the dial.

I was just kind of wondering what the rules were on that. A south suburban location would
most likely make their coverage at night more useful at well. They are 5 channels away from
1080 WNWI's Riverdale towers. Could they build south and have the same situation that WSCR
and WGN have, as well as WBBM, whose tower is only a matter of blocks from WGN?

Just thought I would ask, I'm not so great with the tech stuff.


                http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/finder?call=wnvr&x=3&y=$&sr=Y&s=C

 

[davideduardo]

the day and during CH, they will be on six towers, at night 5 towers.
This really boosts their daytime range well out past Rockford, up to Milwaukee and close to
city grade out to Madison, it also improves their signal south into the city, from about Aurora
to just south of the Loop. This is only their 5mV coverage, their secondary coverage goes all
the way out to about the IL/IA border. It also extends them all the way past Kankakee and
Michigan City. It also slightly extends their signal at night, a little going north and south and
east, while nulling it a little more than now to the west.

The plot I see barely increases the 5 mV/m towards the populated areas of Chicago... it just touched Evanston before, and now it hits the south side of that city. The increases are the NNW to west. In urban areas, 10 mV/M or better is generally needed to get ratings for in home and at work listening... of course, this is a niche format station at present so listeners may put up with a bit more interference. However, the gain towards Chicago is minimal, so I wonder about the gain, particularly since in the Winter months, the CH coverage is severely limited.

This is really going to give them a good signal.

Not, apparently, in areas where there is much population and not in areas where the current format would have partisans.

I do have a question though, isn't unusual to get that kind of power increase so close to
50kW WMVP? The spacing of the two stations is not that far.

There is no allocation table for AM, and spacing is based on city of license and field strength.

In the same city, 40 kHz is separation. In the same market area, we can have 30 kHz separation, such as KHJ 930 in LA and 900 in West Covina (with a directional 5 kw CP at one time). We even see, in LA, 1460 5 kw day in Inglewood and 1480 5 kw in Santa Ana, which are possible due to the degree of signal overalap between them.

Since 1030 is direcational away from central Chicago, 1000 and 1030 are obviously protected.

Many countries have allowed stations in the same city to be 20 kHz apart... Mexico City 100 kw on 690, 10 kw on 710, 100 kw on 730 is one example. Or, before AMs started closing, Quito, Ecuador with stations on 530, 550, 570, 590 and 610.

I was just kind of wondering what the rules were on that. A south suburban location would
most likely make their coverage at night more useful at well.

The new pattern looks like it has no gain at all towards Downers Grove, so it is limited by the FCC rule on no overlap of the 25 mV/M countour of stations 30 kHz apart.

 

[cyberdad]

I live about two miles from the WNVR stick(s), so I can hardly wait to have 27kw just up the road from me. I'm guessing I'll no longer need to put batteries in my electric toothbrush, etc.

I've always considered Polnet to be a very savvy outfit, but their track record with the 1030 facility continues to have me wondering how much they'll really accomplish with this. If you look at where their ethnic target resides, the upgrade seems hard to justify.

Most of the new daytime juice goes to Wisconsin. That's all well and good if Milwaukee is part of the deal...but it's not. As is the case with the Polish neighborhoods in and around Chicago, the new signal to Milwaukee remains pretty much as is now. Which means pretty much the same as before the last upgrade to the current 10kw.

Or to use another word...."weak".

As for nighttime....at least those nights when they even bother to broadcast....the best you can say is that the signal goes from absolutely pathetic to only slightly less so. My prediction of what will happen is my ability to listen to WBZ will go from "really easy" to just "easy"!

 

[DanStrassberg]

WNVR AM1030, has gotten a CP to boost their day power to 27kW, CH to 8kW and nights to .21kW.

Doesn't the CP specify that the new array will be constructed ar the existing site? All of the existing towers would have to be replaced. As has already been mentioned, the existing array uses physically short towers with heavy top loading. Unusual designs of that sort are generally used only when local zoning prohibits taller towers. Makes one wonder why PolNet believes it can now get local approval for taller towers--and more of them. Or maybe PolNet is prepared to change its CP to go back to shorter top-loaded towers if a building permit is not granted.

 

[[email protected]]

I believe the "fear" that local residents had about having radio towers in their back yard has subsided. The existing towers have been there for years and have not presented any problems to anyone in the area. Obtaining a permit to build taller towers should be much easier now. Also, they will still be short enough not to require lighting or painting thus making them less visible.

The whole project really is about "stick value"...though there will be a small increase in signal penetration in the targeted community. :

 

[MarcB]

A quick story. In the town of Southington, Connecticut there is an AM station on 990 AM 2500 watts by day and 80 watts by night. The studio and towers are on a plot of land on Old Turnpike Road. In back of the station/towers is a big field. In back of the field is a large wooded area. In back of the wooded area are residential neighborhoods including Nunzio Drive. A number of Nunzio Drive Residents called the radio station and complained that they were getting the station's signal through their telephone. The radio station said it wasn't their fault, it was AT&T's. AT&T of course blamed the radio station. The radio station called out an engineer and said the station was fully in conplience and the problem was being caused by AT&T. From what I heard AT&T did not want to come out and spend money to fix the problem. I don't know if the problem ever got fixed or not.

 

[[email protected]]

In back of the wooded area are residential neighborhoods including Nunzio Drive. A number of Nunzio Drive Residents called the radio station and complained that they were getting the station's signal through their telephone. The radio station said it wasn't their fault, it was AT&T's. AT&T of course blamed the radio station. The radio station called out an engineer and said the station was fully in conplience and the problem was being caused by AT&T. From what I heard AT&T did not want to come out and spend money to fix the problem. I don't know if the problem ever got fixed or not.

Telephone lines make great antennas and "cheap" telephones make great AM receivers. Fortunately, there are companies that make interference filters for todays phones and usually adding a few of those will eliminate most of those type of problems.

 

[cyberdad]

WNVR AM1030, has gotten a CP to boost their day power to 27kW, CH to 8kW and nights to .21kW.

Doesn't the CP specify that the new array will be constructed ar the existing site? All of the existing towers would have to be replaced. As has already been mentioned, the existing array uses physically short towers with heavy top loading. Unusual designs of that sort are generally used only when local zoning prohibits taller towers. Makes one wonder why PolNet believes it can now get local approval for taller towers--and more of them. Or maybe PolNet is prepared to change its CP to go back to shorter top-loaded towers if a building permit is not granted.

Good point. There was a rather protracted donnybrook in getting the current tower setup approved....which wasn't all that long ago.

 

[JeremyAndrews]

This increase isn't much different from WAUK (WRRD) Waukesha on 1510. They recently went up from 10kw to 23kw.

Not sure about the tower building but they managed to work out the co and adjacent thing