-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
WNWR 1540 Programming Moves To WWDB 860 on June 13th
- Thread starter 1310
- Start date
I
imhomerjay
Guest
And those other sources, providing enough revenue to turn a profit, are....???
Easy to suggest they just look for revenue to do whatever is, in a thoroughly subjective judgement, innovative. Not so easy in the real world. And if the other revenue streams are sustainable themselves, why use them so subsidize something that loses money?
Easy to suggest they just look for revenue to do whatever is, in a thoroughly subjective judgement, innovative. Not so easy in the real world. And if the other revenue streams are sustainable themselves, why use them so subsidize something that loses money?
WNWR's sister station WCRW has a CP pending to go daytime only, dropping the night authorization from the 2nd site (the old day site for WAGE 1200 with 2 towers added), the property was probably worth more then what they could do with it anyway.
DaveWilliams said:
Although what you said is plausible, I visited the FCC's WCRW application-history page at
http://licensing.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws.exe/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_list.pl
(You have to get there by going first to http://licensing.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/pubacc/prod/app_sear.htm,
then specifying WCRW and highlighting AM station). Then you can click on "Proceed with application search."
I could find no record of an application for daytime only and elimination of the night facility. A new application for CP has been tendered for filing but has not yet been accepted, but it does NOT appear to deal with eliminating night service. It covers only some environmental issues.
I'm late to this thread, so I'll just throw up some random thoughts from reading all of this tonight:
It's a high-dial AM daytimer. It could give cash away on-the-hour for being caller-number-one and still get its lunch eaten.
There's no "format" worth wasting time in even speculating over, in my opinion.
This station was-- and now, presumably is-- doing one of the few things that'll be economically viable. As for piecemeal brokering, even the number of folks who'll pay-to-play-- pretending to be "broadcasters"-- is now dwindling. The novelty of being "on the radio" is really a thing of the past, even for those with huge egos. The Internet gets it done better, and much cheaper.
Musichead and others are right; Rush was never on 860. In addition to being on 1360 WVSJ, Rush was also for a time carried on West Chester's WCHE.
The Mike Venditti/WPGR story is priceless; I've heard multiple versions of it and figure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I specifically remember driving late one Friday evening around City Hall, near the J.E. Caldwell some time around 1993 or '94-- and being amazed at how crystal-clear the oldies were (complete with live DJ talking about how great it was to "now be on at night"). I always wondered whether I was hearing the actual night signal, or if it was the 50kw. I don't think I was ever able to get the night signal in King of Prussia, though.
I was once with a group that considered buying the 990 in Providence. We drove throughout the metro one night measuring the night signal. Even at 5kw from Burrillville, it was pretty rough in most of the market. Every time I hear of this station I think of being attacked by bees at the transmitter site.
It would never work (for 1540), but not because there aren't enough advertising dollars. There aren't at the present time enough listeners in a geographically-concentrated area to make this viable as a full-time format in one particular city. (You, me, and a handful of others would be the only ones listening.) Much like in the early days of Conservative Talk (and things with regard to this actually haven't changed all that much), your Alex Jones idea (what I call Alternative Talk) would have to adopt a business model relying more on direct-response advertising/marketing and other "non-traditional revenue" (newsletters, web subscriptions, the big can of "crisis garden" seeds, the Brian Brawdy solar generator, etc.) There are plenty of people (like us) who are interested in hearing this type of programming, but we're scattered throughout the republic. That's why Jones works best on a national platform (XM/Sirius, Internet). Plus there are other problems. For one thing, most of these Jones-like shows (from a radio point-of-view), suck. Jones is one of the few hosts who can manage to effectively pull it off, and even his appeal is limited. Having a mainstream Talk station in a decent-sized market carrying even a "Best of Jones" on the weekend would do much more for the cause of liberty than taking over an entire WPGR and running Jones and other hosts (that'll be dismissed as "whackjobs") all day.
The entire concept of AM broadcasting became obsolete when a computer processor became commonplace in every home and office.
The concept of daytime-only AM broadcasting became obsolete the moment FMs receivers hit critical mass.
It's time to sunset both.
It's a high-dial AM daytimer. It could give cash away on-the-hour for being caller-number-one and still get its lunch eaten.
There's no "format" worth wasting time in even speculating over, in my opinion.
This station was-- and now, presumably is-- doing one of the few things that'll be economically viable. As for piecemeal brokering, even the number of folks who'll pay-to-play-- pretending to be "broadcasters"-- is now dwindling. The novelty of being "on the radio" is really a thing of the past, even for those with huge egos. The Internet gets it done better, and much cheaper.
Musichead and others are right; Rush was never on 860. In addition to being on 1360 WVSJ, Rush was also for a time carried on West Chester's WCHE.
The Mike Venditti/WPGR story is priceless; I've heard multiple versions of it and figure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I specifically remember driving late one Friday evening around City Hall, near the J.E. Caldwell some time around 1993 or '94-- and being amazed at how crystal-clear the oldies were (complete with live DJ talking about how great it was to "now be on at night"). I always wondered whether I was hearing the actual night signal, or if it was the 50kw. I don't think I was ever able to get the night signal in King of Prussia, though.
I was once with a group that considered buying the 990 in Providence. We drove throughout the metro one night measuring the night signal. Even at 5kw from Burrillville, it was pretty rough in most of the market. Every time I hear of this station I think of being attacked by bees at the transmitter site.
It would never work (for 1540), but not because there aren't enough advertising dollars. There aren't at the present time enough listeners in a geographically-concentrated area to make this viable as a full-time format in one particular city. (You, me, and a handful of others would be the only ones listening.) Much like in the early days of Conservative Talk (and things with regard to this actually haven't changed all that much), your Alex Jones idea (what I call Alternative Talk) would have to adopt a business model relying more on direct-response advertising/marketing and other "non-traditional revenue" (newsletters, web subscriptions, the big can of "crisis garden" seeds, the Brian Brawdy solar generator, etc.) There are plenty of people (like us) who are interested in hearing this type of programming, but we're scattered throughout the republic. That's why Jones works best on a national platform (XM/Sirius, Internet). Plus there are other problems. For one thing, most of these Jones-like shows (from a radio point-of-view), suck. Jones is one of the few hosts who can manage to effectively pull it off, and even his appeal is limited. Having a mainstream Talk station in a decent-sized market carrying even a "Best of Jones" on the weekend would do much more for the cause of liberty than taking over an entire WPGR and running Jones and other hosts (that'll be dismissed as "whackjobs") all day.
The entire concept of AM broadcasting became obsolete when a computer processor became commonplace in every home and office.
The concept of daytime-only AM broadcasting became obsolete the moment FMs receivers hit critical mass.
It's time to sunset both.
If you think that getting rid of the AM band entirely is going to solve the problem, I can't see that as a solution. Yeah, maybe you can expand the FM band and allow displaced AM stations to move to the band which might help in some instances. The problem is getting rid of the band entirely will be a mistake for a few reasons.George Brusstar said:
First; Despite AM's limitations on fidelity, it has an advantage over FM in that it can broadcast for hundreds of miles at night with the right amount of power. Whenever there's an emergency which covers a significant portion of the country and radio service is destroyed in one community, other stations in a more distant community can compensate for the loss. This is precisely what happened in 1989 when Hurricane Hugo ravaged the lower East coast. Many stations were knocked off the air and about the only means of communication was through the AM powerhouses! Moreover, you can forget about internet access in such a situation.
With this said, Instead of killing the AM band entirely, why not allow more clear channels to exist? Get each state in the union to have at least one clear channel. If a certain country doesn't wish to use a given channel for broadcasting, it can go to another country that's willing to utilize it! Perhaps limit the number of non-clear channels to something like thirty or so local channels and keep those channels at about 1230 and up; maybe keep the regional channels at 550 to 630 and below and not much, if anything else.
Second, an AM daytime-only license might be advantageous for a broadcaster who may not need nor want a full-time license; especially amateurs.
The problem with AM radio as a technology today is not fidelity. It's interference. Horrible, intolerable interference.
It's only a fidelity problem with stations voluntarily cut their bandwidth down to nothing, or worse, throw IBOC into the mix. While it'll never be fully on-par with FM, the sound quality of a well-processed AM signal-- even on an el cheapo dollar-store radio isn't all that bad. A spoken-word format on a decent-sounding station (like 990 here in Philadelphia, or 950 at night when IBOC's off) is fine if there's no interference. Stations like the CBS-owned ones sound absolutely fatiguing to me; it's as though every host sounds like a caller. But even that is only 1% of the problem.
I live in the heart of the Philadelphia market, on the second-most-traveled road in town. The entire AM band, save KYW and a few others, is pretty much inaudible within a half-mile of my home. Interference from everything-- the new LED traffic signals, street lights, power lines, and my own car's engine-- render stations like WIP and WPHT useless. Again, I'm not a "fringe signal" listener. I'm in the absolute target of those stations-- gender, age, income, and geographically. I can't listen. And these are the SUCCESSFUL stations on the band.
I stream out-of-town outlets (WAEB, WPGB Pittsburgh, 1200 in Boston, etc.) to hear basic syndicated programs that I can't hear in my home or office because 50,000-watt WPHT cannot overcome interference from the computers, modem, DVR units, etc. I also know whenever the refrigerator or air conditioner compressors kick in if I'm trying to listen to a Phillies game (I'm one of those who turn down the TV sound because I like Franzke and Andersen).
The radio geeks are so out of touch with this it's scary. Whenever I bring this up, I get a handful of E-mails from well-intentioned folks offering "simple tips" like using only battery-operated radios, re-arranging the room so not to have the computers nearby, ordering the $50.00 Selectenna, having a professional rip my car apart and re-shield the cables to the head unit in the dash, and my personal favorite-- move to a more remote area.
I'm a radio guy and I won't even do stuff like that. You think anyone under the age of 30 today will? Much less a female?
I spent the majority of my life as a DXer, listening to hours of faint, fading signals. I cannot even tolerate the offensive interference anymore. My wife (and everyone else) becomes downright upset when I drive around trying to listen to a program on AM because of the obnoxious noise. Can I blame her?
There are a few hosts I like to listen to on WIP when driving around-- but instead I'll often listen to 97.5 just because it's crystal-clear even when those hosts I like are on 610. Again, it's all about the interference. (Though WIP's fidelity makes a 16k dial-up stream sound good.)
The radio geek hears me complain about AM sound and immediately assumes "fidelity." I say interference. The geek then assumes I mean "from other stations" and often goes into a rant about how the FCC "sucks because they licensed too many stations." It's all hogwash. There has never been a problem with too many stations. We're living in a 500-channel world. Too many stations would actually be a good thing. The problem is man-made interference. And it's never going to get better; it's getting worse by the day as more and more items contain processors.
America's entire lot of AM stations could be [gradually] moved to Channels 5 and 6. I've been saying this for years, even before it became a trendy message board topic.
Those of you people who want to "save AM" I hope have a programming and sales plan for when all meaningful spoken-word programming is carried on frequency modulation-- and there's nothing left for the 90-year-old dial but foreign language, brokered religion, and perhaps an aging disco DJ willing to pay-for-play.
Sorry, but nobody cares. Seriously. Even radio professionals today don't care. This is something only brought up by DX-ing radio geeks (of which I was one back when there were things worth listening to-- and it was possible here), a handful of old-timers, and perhaps a few FEMA bureaucrats. We can't even get most people to listen to full-power hometown AM and you're telling me about distant, fading signals laypeople in a given town have never even heard of?
With what, their own feed of George Noory or Mark Levin to make up for the lost local one?
So this is AM's business plan? Hope for a terrible disaster so people can be "served" by powerhouses? (Most AM stations, of course are not powerhouses.) Besides, in 1989 people still regularly relied on radio for important information. Radio threw that away by eliminating 99% of the news service that existed at that time. Maybe in another 22 years we'll have an instance where AM radio can shine.
To be fair, WWL did shine in '05. Just like it was supposed to. Props, as the kids would say. Meanwhile, every time there's a little storm somewhere we get these stupid industry-self-congratulatory stories in the trades about how a station "served the community" during the ordeal. "What, do you want a cookie for that?!" That's your job.
And daytimers? Are you kidding me? Try explaining to a non-radio person in the year 2011 the concept of ANYTHING that only works between sunrise and sunset. Not even a consistent schedule, like 6 AM to 6 PM. "Well, in June we come on at 6:15 but in July we're on 'til 8:30 but in December we have to shut down at 4:30 just as drivetime's starting-- got it?" Don't tell me about physics. Don't tell me about propagation. I know all about that-- remember I'm a recovering radio geek myself. Try telling it to listeners. Try telling it to advertisers. You can't. They won't even stick around for half the conversation.
Try hitting on a pretty girl in a bar by telling her, "I'm on AM radio." It hasn't worked since the early '70s. (Actually women today usually aren't even impressed if you're on FM-- but at least we could get away with using that into the '90s.)
Since there are already a billion AM sets in American hands right now, I have no problem designating clear channels for some kind of emergency service. Otherwise, I say turn the rest of the band over to the Part 15-ers and make it "CB Radio" people can actually use-- if they want to (and most won't because most don't give a damn about radio anymore). At least in the hands of amateurs there might be something worth listening to from time-to-time.
I love the idea of long-range listening. I even sometimes like the sound of AM radio (provided there's no interference). Really, I do. There's something "romantic" about hearing music on AM today (for example, on WHAT or WEEU).
But romantic isn't going to save the industry.
"I just want to save you while there's still something left to save."
Radio doesn't need rallies and flunkie NAB cheerleaders. What it needs is some tough love. It needs to be scared straight.
It's only a fidelity problem with stations voluntarily cut their bandwidth down to nothing, or worse, throw IBOC into the mix. While it'll never be fully on-par with FM, the sound quality of a well-processed AM signal-- even on an el cheapo dollar-store radio isn't all that bad. A spoken-word format on a decent-sounding station (like 990 here in Philadelphia, or 950 at night when IBOC's off) is fine if there's no interference. Stations like the CBS-owned ones sound absolutely fatiguing to me; it's as though every host sounds like a caller. But even that is only 1% of the problem.
I live in the heart of the Philadelphia market, on the second-most-traveled road in town. The entire AM band, save KYW and a few others, is pretty much inaudible within a half-mile of my home. Interference from everything-- the new LED traffic signals, street lights, power lines, and my own car's engine-- render stations like WIP and WPHT useless. Again, I'm not a "fringe signal" listener. I'm in the absolute target of those stations-- gender, age, income, and geographically. I can't listen. And these are the SUCCESSFUL stations on the band.
I stream out-of-town outlets (WAEB, WPGB Pittsburgh, 1200 in Boston, etc.) to hear basic syndicated programs that I can't hear in my home or office because 50,000-watt WPHT cannot overcome interference from the computers, modem, DVR units, etc. I also know whenever the refrigerator or air conditioner compressors kick in if I'm trying to listen to a Phillies game (I'm one of those who turn down the TV sound because I like Franzke and Andersen).
The radio geeks are so out of touch with this it's scary. Whenever I bring this up, I get a handful of E-mails from well-intentioned folks offering "simple tips" like using only battery-operated radios, re-arranging the room so not to have the computers nearby, ordering the $50.00 Selectenna, having a professional rip my car apart and re-shield the cables to the head unit in the dash, and my personal favorite-- move to a more remote area.
I'm a radio guy and I won't even do stuff like that. You think anyone under the age of 30 today will? Much less a female?
I spent the majority of my life as a DXer, listening to hours of faint, fading signals. I cannot even tolerate the offensive interference anymore. My wife (and everyone else) becomes downright upset when I drive around trying to listen to a program on AM because of the obnoxious noise. Can I blame her?
There are a few hosts I like to listen to on WIP when driving around-- but instead I'll often listen to 97.5 just because it's crystal-clear even when those hosts I like are on 610. Again, it's all about the interference. (Though WIP's fidelity makes a 16k dial-up stream sound good.)
The radio geek hears me complain about AM sound and immediately assumes "fidelity." I say interference. The geek then assumes I mean "from other stations" and often goes into a rant about how the FCC "sucks because they licensed too many stations." It's all hogwash. There has never been a problem with too many stations. We're living in a 500-channel world. Too many stations would actually be a good thing. The problem is man-made interference. And it's never going to get better; it's getting worse by the day as more and more items contain processors.
America's entire lot of AM stations could be [gradually] moved to Channels 5 and 6. I've been saying this for years, even before it became a trendy message board topic.
Those of you people who want to "save AM" I hope have a programming and sales plan for when all meaningful spoken-word programming is carried on frequency modulation-- and there's nothing left for the 90-year-old dial but foreign language, brokered religion, and perhaps an aging disco DJ willing to pay-for-play.
Sorry, but nobody cares. Seriously. Even radio professionals today don't care. This is something only brought up by DX-ing radio geeks (of which I was one back when there were things worth listening to-- and it was possible here), a handful of old-timers, and perhaps a few FEMA bureaucrats. We can't even get most people to listen to full-power hometown AM and you're telling me about distant, fading signals laypeople in a given town have never even heard of?
With what, their own feed of George Noory or Mark Levin to make up for the lost local one?
So this is AM's business plan? Hope for a terrible disaster so people can be "served" by powerhouses? (Most AM stations, of course are not powerhouses.) Besides, in 1989 people still regularly relied on radio for important information. Radio threw that away by eliminating 99% of the news service that existed at that time. Maybe in another 22 years we'll have an instance where AM radio can shine.
To be fair, WWL did shine in '05. Just like it was supposed to. Props, as the kids would say. Meanwhile, every time there's a little storm somewhere we get these stupid industry-self-congratulatory stories in the trades about how a station "served the community" during the ordeal. "What, do you want a cookie for that?!" That's your job.
And daytimers? Are you kidding me? Try explaining to a non-radio person in the year 2011 the concept of ANYTHING that only works between sunrise and sunset. Not even a consistent schedule, like 6 AM to 6 PM. "Well, in June we come on at 6:15 but in July we're on 'til 8:30 but in December we have to shut down at 4:30 just as drivetime's starting-- got it?" Don't tell me about physics. Don't tell me about propagation. I know all about that-- remember I'm a recovering radio geek myself. Try telling it to listeners. Try telling it to advertisers. You can't. They won't even stick around for half the conversation.
Try hitting on a pretty girl in a bar by telling her, "I'm on AM radio." It hasn't worked since the early '70s. (Actually women today usually aren't even impressed if you're on FM-- but at least we could get away with using that into the '90s.)
Since there are already a billion AM sets in American hands right now, I have no problem designating clear channels for some kind of emergency service. Otherwise, I say turn the rest of the band over to the Part 15-ers and make it "CB Radio" people can actually use-- if they want to (and most won't because most don't give a damn about radio anymore). At least in the hands of amateurs there might be something worth listening to from time-to-time.
I love the idea of long-range listening. I even sometimes like the sound of AM radio (provided there's no interference). Really, I do. There's something "romantic" about hearing music on AM today (for example, on WHAT or WEEU).
But romantic isn't going to save the industry.
"I just want to save you while there's still something left to save."
Radio doesn't need rallies and flunkie NAB cheerleaders. What it needs is some tough love. It needs to be scared straight.
i use to be one of those who, as george eloquently pointed out, was a cheerleader for the band. but i've surrendered. the idiots of the NAB have won, and there'll be no turning back. as an article in the most recent Radio World paper points out, now the FM band operators are upset because they can't be received because of the "noise floor". too bad, too late. where were you when the AM operators were hurting? and you're HD doesn't work because it's a total failure and waste of money, resources. i'm sorry, but HD @ 800 watts at 1000' has no building penetration, yet alone over the 2011 noise floor. and on AM, suppliers building AM 3.5 khz crap, and car manufacturers putting them in dashboards with a 6" antenna designed for satellite? you wonder why you have interference? the collapsable Philco cowl antenna was 36". then 30" then 18". it's now a rubber duck antenna! no wonder you can't pick up any AM. and the sideband hash in metro philly is probably the worst in the nation.
my friend bought a new lexus, complained how bad the AM band was. when i saw the antenna, i nearly cried. it's a wonder it receives FM! a coat hanger would work better. i sent him to the custom auto audio shop to have a fixed mast antenna installed on his front fender...$57. reception is miraculous now. too bad the bandwidth is still garbage on the AM.
my friend bought a new lexus, complained how bad the AM band was. when i saw the antenna, i nearly cried. it's a wonder it receives FM! a coat hanger would work better. i sent him to the custom auto audio shop to have a fixed mast antenna installed on his front fender...$57. reception is miraculous now. too bad the bandwidth is still garbage on the AM.
The problem with moving AM stations to Channel 5 and 6 is that every AM radio in the US would suddenly become inoperative, and would need to be replaced. And if you move them into the newly expanded band and make them FM then every FM radio will need to be replaced, too.
If we were to open up a new band for radio we'd be better off starting from scratch. I'd like to see the old VHF TV frequencies that are now available post-transition in each market used for multiplexers for DAB format broadcasting like is in use in Europe and nearly succeeded in Canada. Stations could be given incentives to be nudged off of AM into this new digital band and smaller FM's could also be given a chance. That would ease the overcrowding on both dials. Or even experiment with ATSC "radio" by opening up vacated VHF channels that aren't well suited for ATSC TV signals for audio-only broadcasting.
If we were to open up a new band for radio we'd be better off starting from scratch. I'd like to see the old VHF TV frequencies that are now available post-transition in each market used for multiplexers for DAB format broadcasting like is in use in Europe and nearly succeeded in Canada. Stations could be given incentives to be nudged off of AM into this new digital band and smaller FM's could also be given a chance. That would ease the overcrowding on both dials. Or even experiment with ATSC "radio" by opening up vacated VHF channels that aren't well suited for ATSC TV signals for audio-only broadcasting.
I'm not in Center City Philadelphia every week, but I drive in every once in a while.
When I leave, I'd like to be able to check traffic on the 2s on KYW before I decide which route to take out to my western suburb home.
KYW is unlistenable in between many of the large buildings just west of Broad Street and elsewhere in Center City.
Sirius has now standardized its large city traffic channels so that Philadelphia traffic comes up on the 4s. That's what I end up listening to now when I'm in the city. It's the same traffic provided by the same source.
It's a shame that a station with a 50K AM signal can't cover its city of license because of interference on the band.
If someone put a format on FM with local traffic reports every 10 or even every 15 minutes 24/7 a la New Jersey 101.5, I'd be there.
When I leave, I'd like to be able to check traffic on the 2s on KYW before I decide which route to take out to my western suburb home.
KYW is unlistenable in between many of the large buildings just west of Broad Street and elsewhere in Center City.
Sirius has now standardized its large city traffic channels so that Philadelphia traffic comes up on the 4s. That's what I end up listening to now when I'm in the city. It's the same traffic provided by the same source.
It's a shame that a station with a 50K AM signal can't cover its city of license because of interference on the band.
If someone put a format on FM with local traffic reports every 10 or even every 15 minutes 24/7 a la New Jersey 101.5, I'd be there.
I have to go with George and klutch on this one. Interference from newer technologies has rendered the AM band unlistenable in many office and home environments (and even in cars with form-over-function deficient antennas) and AM will never again be enough of a priority that anyone's going to pay to do what it takes to mitigate the interference. Why bother when other readily-available technologies don't require the tweaking and expense?
A cleared out AM band with a few dozen dominant 50, 100 and even 200kW signals nationally to cover regional news and emergencies would suffice. Equipment manufacturers will continue to de-emphasize AM radios until the remaining AMs will have to simulcast on FM and/or other developing battery-powered technologies (wifi/cellphones and their successors).
This is the reality of the technology marketplace. Implementing the clearing of the AM band within our lifetimes will be a political challenge. Allowing existing stations to wither away will take decades, even if adherence to technical parameters is strictly enforced (a lot of small AMs that haven't maintained their physical plants could be wiped out overnight, but most would protest that their brokered formats or swap shops and ballgames are "serving the community"). If they can stay flush enough to maintain a clean physical plant, let them have at it. As some stations go dark, the reorganization of the band to slot the new 50-100kW successors could begin.
It's too late in the game to be moving analog radio stations to different bands (AM to Channels 5 and 6). You'd still have to manufacture new receivers and people aren't buying standalone radios anymore. Radio's advantage is the ubiquity of existing receivers. Technology has moved on to the point where radio is now just an accessory on most entertainment and communications transceivers, if it's included at all.
Fidelity is secondary, but it is an issue in the age of webstreams, CDs, MP3s and crappy AM radios. If you have unique programming (sports, local talk), that will trump the reduced fidelity, but if I can receive you via your webstream, I'll do it for the gain in fidelity. I listen to WNTP exclusively on the webstream even though I live within a few miles of their sticks. (But Rene, please, the local spots are still too hot on the stream! The essing is driving me nuts. Other Salems online like WPIT, WNYM and WWRC don't have this issue.)
I listen to KYW and WPHT via their FM HD simulcasts, but I know that's just a radio geek thing. HD in its current form is going nowhere. Satellite radio subscribers know what it's like to listen to sub par fidelity, but given the reliability of the signal and the varied content, satellite will survive its push to maximize quantity over quality.
Keep AM around because of the wide availability of existing receivers. But make it usable. Clear out everything sub 50kW over the next 10 years, and prepare to simulcast and eventually migrate those remaining stations to successor technologies in the near future.
As politically difficult as it is to achieve, I think that's about the only prescription that makes any sense to maintain a marginally useful AM band in the current environment.
A cleared out AM band with a few dozen dominant 50, 100 and even 200kW signals nationally to cover regional news and emergencies would suffice. Equipment manufacturers will continue to de-emphasize AM radios until the remaining AMs will have to simulcast on FM and/or other developing battery-powered technologies (wifi/cellphones and their successors).
This is the reality of the technology marketplace. Implementing the clearing of the AM band within our lifetimes will be a political challenge. Allowing existing stations to wither away will take decades, even if adherence to technical parameters is strictly enforced (a lot of small AMs that haven't maintained their physical plants could be wiped out overnight, but most would protest that their brokered formats or swap shops and ballgames are "serving the community"). If they can stay flush enough to maintain a clean physical plant, let them have at it. As some stations go dark, the reorganization of the band to slot the new 50-100kW successors could begin.
It's too late in the game to be moving analog radio stations to different bands (AM to Channels 5 and 6). You'd still have to manufacture new receivers and people aren't buying standalone radios anymore. Radio's advantage is the ubiquity of existing receivers. Technology has moved on to the point where radio is now just an accessory on most entertainment and communications transceivers, if it's included at all.
Fidelity is secondary, but it is an issue in the age of webstreams, CDs, MP3s and crappy AM radios. If you have unique programming (sports, local talk), that will trump the reduced fidelity, but if I can receive you via your webstream, I'll do it for the gain in fidelity. I listen to WNTP exclusively on the webstream even though I live within a few miles of their sticks. (But Rene, please, the local spots are still too hot on the stream! The essing is driving me nuts. Other Salems online like WPIT, WNYM and WWRC don't have this issue.)
I listen to KYW and WPHT via their FM HD simulcasts, but I know that's just a radio geek thing. HD in its current form is going nowhere. Satellite radio subscribers know what it's like to listen to sub par fidelity, but given the reliability of the signal and the varied content, satellite will survive its push to maximize quantity over quality.
Keep AM around because of the wide availability of existing receivers. But make it usable. Clear out everything sub 50kW over the next 10 years, and prepare to simulcast and eventually migrate those remaining stations to successor technologies in the near future.
As politically difficult as it is to achieve, I think that's about the only prescription that makes any sense to maintain a marginally useful AM band in the current environment.
Interesting discussion here. I'd just get rid of the top limit of 50 kW for the clears, and move 'em down to the bottom of the band. Run BIG power-500 kW or so, like some stations do over in Europe-with the antenna systems 5/8 wave high, for maximum groundwave coverage. Sunset Class D's and put them on an expanded FM band. Raise Class B's to 50 kW and Class C's to 10 kW. Divide the band this way:
540-750 Clears
760-1220-Class B
1230-1700 Class C
540-750 Clears
760-1220-Class B
1230-1700 Class C
DG02816 said:
Yeah, right! Never gonna happen and you know it, Dave! Start with all of the problems there would be with other Western Hemisphere nations--not just Mexico and Canada. US Class As are limited by the Rio Treaty to 100 kW-D/50 kW-N. Mexico is using the 100 kW daytime limit. The US and Canada (at least) are not. Why spend another 25 years renegotiating the treaty?
Think about the problems KFI had replacing its tower at its existing site! Provides a good example of what would happen if you started messing around with US Class A AM allocations.
Dan,
True, KFI almost got NIMBY'ed to death by the LA gov't. I was just woolgathering here. After seeing what a group wants to do
with a former BBC outlet on 648 kHz,running 500 kW. putting a 50 microvolt signal into Amsterdam et al, I'm wondering why the FRC do this and pass it on to the FCC? Also saw last night, the coverage of a diplex of Dutch stations on 747 and 1008 kHz with both running 400 kW, Towers are center fed anti-fading design, with 747 having monster coverage with its 2 tower cardioid. Shame the FCC never allowed it here.
True, KFI almost got NIMBY'ed to death by the LA gov't. I was just woolgathering here. After seeing what a group wants to do
with a former BBC outlet on 648 kHz,running 500 kW. putting a 50 microvolt signal into Amsterdam et al, I'm wondering why the FRC do this and pass it on to the FCC? Also saw last night, the coverage of a diplex of Dutch stations on 747 and 1008 kHz with both running 400 kW, Towers are center fed anti-fading design, with 747 having monster coverage with its 2 tower cardioid. Shame the FCC never allowed it here.
Can't add much more to what George wrote except, "I agree."
musichead1029 said:
This is something that I have been aware of for quite some time. There are a lot of factors that have contributed to the issue which are not necessary to discuss. The bottom line is that our online listeners should notice a big difference as of today, thanks to some new audio processing.
Today, I'm hearing programs from GNE Studio(a satellite Latin music service) on 1540.
As for 860, it is still the Spanish sports talk from ESPN.
As for 860, it is still the Spanish sports talk from ESPN.
- Status