One of my favorites, the innovative WNYE-TV has been quietly dropped by Dish. If you click on the "information" button it states that WNYE is no longer available. Does anyone know what happened? Isn't this a "must carry?" How can you justify carrying a waste like WFME TV with their 3 revolving shows and dropping something as good as WNYE???
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
WNYE TV-25 DROPPED BY DISH NETWORK
- Thread starter VeteranPD
- Start date
I would assume this is a must-carry, but who knows. I think WNYE isn't carried on some suburban cable systems either, areas that would easily be in reach of the over-the-air signal. Possibly this is a technical issue on WNYE's end? That wouldn't surprise me, as WNYE TV and FM seems to be about as inept as it gets in terms of engineering. Or possibly this has to do with the city's cost-cutting?
ansky212 said:
I'm sure it's a temporary issue with Dish and WNYE-TV. Eventhough I'm not a regular viewer to Channel 25, I do know that the City has put some very unique programming on what used to be a very limited "educational", limited hour UHF TV station, originally owned by the Board Of Education of the City of New York. In the past, both WNYE-TV and FM were considered to be the "poor red-haired step-sisters" to WNYC (the City's former BIG non-commercial outlets). That has, of-course, changed. But like a City has a lot of bureacracy, I'm sure WNYE suffers the same fate. If you recall, it took quite a while for WNYE-TV to get the funding to fix the analog transmitter's blown final tube (a year ago). But it was fixed. I think that Dish Network knows the City of New York would not let this go "sitting down". Give it time and I'm sure WNYE will return to Dish. (......I hope?)
I don't know, both Dish and DirecTV have this attitude that treat ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, 1 PBS, CW and MyNetwork affiliates as WORTHY, and not care about any others unless they are forced to carry it (via a legit must-carry request for a given cycle...), except in DirecTV case's a preference for carrying low powered Spanish stations, which relay Telefutura or Azteca America to increase their Spanish package sales.
In the Connecticut part of the NY market, nothing has been done to made CPTV offered. Dish doesn't carry WLVT 39 (PBS) for Philadelphia, yet Fios now does, even in Southern NJ.
In the Connecticut part of the NY market, nothing has been done to made CPTV offered. Dish doesn't carry WLVT 39 (PBS) for Philadelphia, yet Fios now does, even in Southern NJ.
The message on Dish Network (on CH.25) if you get NYC locals, is that Dish is working to get the channel back on. So, thats good news for what its worth and it least Dish put up a message.
For a brief while 4 years ago this time, WLVT 39(PBS) was dropped out of DirecTV's Philadelphia package, without notice. Fortunately it was restored, but there went my trust in satellite carrying some of the better small stations.
For a brief while 4 years ago this time, WLVT 39(PBS) was dropped out of DirecTV's Philadelphia package, without notice. Fortunately it was restored, but there went my trust in satellite carrying some of the better small stations.
ansky212 said:
Well, maybe I should have said "mostly very diligent"
There's some interesting information about this topic at http://www.lsl-law.com/attachment.html/127/Must-Carry+Retransmission+Deadline.pdf According to that, the renewal for each station's status is every 3 years and the newest term just started. Also, the default for satellite carriage is retransmission consent. Per http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00460.html , says that WMBC didn't make the required filing with Directv and that's why it was dropped. It wouldn't surprise me if they got quietly readded last week.
DirecTV doesn't carry a national Telefutura feed. Instead they supplement a low powered, a digital subchannel off a UNI, in markets where there is no TFT feed. DirecTV has calculated that it was cheaper uplinking these stations, then pay the licensing fee for a national TFT feed.
Dish just carries a national TFT feed, and doesn't want to deal with low powered stations in most cases.
I guess the point is that if the bandwith and uplinking costs that low powered WFPA 28 is taking up could be reserved for WMBC 63, as both NY and Philly share a spotbeam. But DirecTV sees, WFPA as Telefutura adding to the Spanish package sales.
WMBC runs a number of ethnic programming, but in DirecTV's eyes, it detracts from their pricey premium ethnic packages, so DirecTV doesn't value the stations programming and could care less getting an agreement done for it.
Of course, stations like WMBC and (WWSI 62 in Philadelphia) should have done their work (electing must-carry on time, etc.) to ensure carriage. WMBC is still on cable and on one of the satellite providers, so they likely aren't really hurting.
Dish just carries a national TFT feed, and doesn't want to deal with low powered stations in most cases.
I guess the point is that if the bandwith and uplinking costs that low powered WFPA 28 is taking up could be reserved for WMBC 63, as both NY and Philly share a spotbeam. But DirecTV sees, WFPA as Telefutura adding to the Spanish package sales.
WMBC runs a number of ethnic programming, but in DirecTV's eyes, it detracts from their pricey premium ethnic packages, so DirecTV doesn't value the stations programming and could care less getting an agreement done for it.
Of course, stations like WMBC and (WWSI 62 in Philadelphia) should have done their work (electing must-carry on time, etc.) to ensure carriage. WMBC is still on cable and on one of the satellite providers, so they likely aren't really hurting.
Dish and DirecTV are becoming less and less relevant with each passing day.
They started out as a sort-of alternative to cable, back when they could claim they offered more channels because they had more bandwidth than analog cable did, and nearly every cable company had a monopoly. But as digital cable reached more and more areas, along with over-the-air digital TV providing clear pictures for local stations, DirecTV and Dish found themselves squeezed out.
Now, with Fios coming to more markets, there is a better competitor for cable's customers, and DirecTV and Dish are finding themselves more on the margins.
They started out as a sort-of alternative to cable, back when they could claim they offered more channels because they had more bandwidth than analog cable did, and nearly every cable company had a monopoly. But as digital cable reached more and more areas, along with over-the-air digital TV providing clear pictures for local stations, DirecTV and Dish found themselves squeezed out.
Now, with Fios coming to more markets, there is a better competitor for cable's customers, and DirecTV and Dish are finding themselves more on the margins.
Pab Sungenis said:
I have seen more dishes pop up in my neighborhood over the past 6 months than ever before. Comcast, satellite, and Fios are all available in my neighborhood. Directv has the best value for the money right now with all their HD content. Fios is a close second, but they still lack in many HD channels and their prices are a bit more expensive than Directv for comparable service. Comcast is a distant third with very few HD channels and very expensive prices.
As an aside, I see the term "must carry" bandied about quite a bit in this thread. Just remember that PBS stations do not enjoy the same must carry status as full-powered commercial ones do. There are a myriad of different rules that apply to them which allow as many as 3 PBS stations in one market; but which also deny them must carry status unless they were carried as of a certain date (in 1996?).
My former cable system west of Philadelphia provided a lesson in this concept by carrying WHYY-12 (Phila.) and WLVT-39 (Allentown) but nothing from any of the NJT affiliates. This despite the fact that full-powered OTA signals could be received in our area from both Trenton and Camden. As NJT wasn't carried on Main Line Cable in the old days, they didn't have to be added by Comcast now. Despite being geographically closer than WLVT.
By the way, the Comcast system just to our west (Exton/West Chester) did carry NJT but not WLVT. Same concept there. And it made just as little sense.
Dish and Direct TV have to play by basically the same rules. It's how a station like WNYE can be dropped or how CPTV isn't yet offered to Fairfield County subs. They don't have to add them, but they can if customer demand is there.
My former cable system west of Philadelphia provided a lesson in this concept by carrying WHYY-12 (Phila.) and WLVT-39 (Allentown) but nothing from any of the NJT affiliates. This despite the fact that full-powered OTA signals could be received in our area from both Trenton and Camden. As NJT wasn't carried on Main Line Cable in the old days, they didn't have to be added by Comcast now. Despite being geographically closer than WLVT.
By the way, the Comcast system just to our west (Exton/West Chester) did carry NJT but not WLVT. Same concept there. And it made just as little sense.
Dish and Direct TV have to play by basically the same rules. It's how a station like WNYE can be dropped or how CPTV isn't yet offered to Fairfield County subs. They don't have to add them, but they can if customer demand is there.
Its true the rules for NCEs cable and satellite are little different, primarily based on duplication. However, within the PBS network, there is also their own boundaries in place, as member stations rely on pledges and funding and probably wouldn't want it all diluted. NJN was meant for ppl in NJ, but rather than run the PBS feed, that WHYY and WNET are running, it runs other shows from the PBS vault. NJN is supposed to be supported by people in New Jersey, though its on cable in Philly, some suburbs nearby, Wilmington and Manhattan, as the signal from WNJS/WNJT is strong, and WLVT is supposed to be supported by people("Viewers like You") in the Lehigh Valley, though its on cable in most of SE PA except for some parts in Chester Co.
Fios carries all 3 WHYY, NJN and WLVT everywhere in the Philly market, and its surprising that WLVT 39 is carried on Fios in all the Southern NJ areas, even Vineland NJ. Just found out Fios TV is down in Vineland.
WHYY is supposed to be in general for the Delaware Valley, CH.12 as its for Philadelphia though licensed to Wilmington, and it gets on cable in Ocean County as well, though up until 2007, it wasnt on cable in the Lehigh Valley, so 12 and 39 didn't exactly share zones, and 39 was exclusive in the northwest part of the DMA.
Regarding WLVT, I realize that Allentown is the 3rd most populous city in PA and it warrants some network I suppose, but 'm wondering if there would be tax-payer savings and efficiences if WLVT, WVIA (Scranton), WITF (Harrisburg) and maybe all the PBS station in PA except for WHYY and Pittsburgh's PBS, would merge to form a Pennsyvlania PBS, as many other states have just a state PBS, or state PBS and big city PBS, though it seems mostly Southern states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PBS_member_stations
where in the North, a lot of small DMAs/cities have their own PBS
I'd think something like that for NY could be worked as well.
In general, commercial stations (independents) seek the MOST in coverage area. They run infomercials and paid religious to pay the bills and more.
WNYE, WFME(what an awful station) in New York/North Jersey, and WYBE in Philly, WNVC in Fairfax/Washington DC are noncommercial stations but they don't hold PBS affiliations, so duplication isn't an issue. However, most aren't well funded anyways to deliver strong signals, fiber optic lines to remote cable systems from what I see, but they do get carriage in their local areas on cable, satellite as long as they properly do the must-carry work needed.
Right now, the same message that WNYE is getting in New York market, WYBE in the Philadelphia locals is getting for Dish. No need to call us, it should be back on.
WMBC 63, commercially licensed, is a quasi sampler of international programming (RAI, korean programming) but perhaps isn't viewed highly on DirecTV's mind, in my opinion, DirecTV would rather international customer buy packages through them. I'm guessing WMBC botched their must-carry somewhere in the '04 mustcarry cycle, but at the same tim losing their insurance for carriage but, DirecTV probably didn't work to get the station continued carriage.. I'm sure there are number of customers upset. It remains on Dish, and with Dish, Dish Net offers a locals only package however and a lot of low end packages to make it easy to get programming on a low budget, or with alternate options.
Fios carries all 3 WHYY, NJN and WLVT everywhere in the Philly market, and its surprising that WLVT 39 is carried on Fios in all the Southern NJ areas, even Vineland NJ. Just found out Fios TV is down in Vineland.
WHYY is supposed to be in general for the Delaware Valley, CH.12 as its for Philadelphia though licensed to Wilmington, and it gets on cable in Ocean County as well, though up until 2007, it wasnt on cable in the Lehigh Valley, so 12 and 39 didn't exactly share zones, and 39 was exclusive in the northwest part of the DMA.
Regarding WLVT, I realize that Allentown is the 3rd most populous city in PA and it warrants some network I suppose, but 'm wondering if there would be tax-payer savings and efficiences if WLVT, WVIA (Scranton), WITF (Harrisburg) and maybe all the PBS station in PA except for WHYY and Pittsburgh's PBS, would merge to form a Pennsyvlania PBS, as many other states have just a state PBS, or state PBS and big city PBS, though it seems mostly Southern states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PBS_member_stations
where in the North, a lot of small DMAs/cities have their own PBS
I'd think something like that for NY could be worked as well.
In general, commercial stations (independents) seek the MOST in coverage area. They run infomercials and paid religious to pay the bills and more.
WNYE, WFME(what an awful station) in New York/North Jersey, and WYBE in Philly, WNVC in Fairfax/Washington DC are noncommercial stations but they don't hold PBS affiliations, so duplication isn't an issue. However, most aren't well funded anyways to deliver strong signals, fiber optic lines to remote cable systems from what I see, but they do get carriage in their local areas on cable, satellite as long as they properly do the must-carry work needed.
Right now, the same message that WNYE is getting in New York market, WYBE in the Philadelphia locals is getting for Dish. No need to call us, it should be back on.
WMBC 63, commercially licensed, is a quasi sampler of international programming (RAI, korean programming) but perhaps isn't viewed highly on DirecTV's mind, in my opinion, DirecTV would rather international customer buy packages through them. I'm guessing WMBC botched their must-carry somewhere in the '04 mustcarry cycle, but at the same tim losing their insurance for carriage but, DirecTV probably didn't work to get the station continued carriage.. I'm sure there are number of customers upset. It remains on Dish, and with Dish, Dish Net offers a locals only package however and a lot of low end packages to make it easy to get programming on a low budget, or with alternate options.
Pab Sungenis said:
Agreed. DirecTV originally had a lot of the sports packages exclusive to them, now they only have NFL Sunday Ticket and they pay the NFL a fortune for it. Now digital cable, Fios Dish can all get MLB EI and other sports packages. Multiple premiums networks...available on all carriers. Fios in Philly added a lot of HD channels as well, so HD isn't really an advantage. And even Fios TV is making inroads in international programming.
Another area where Dish and DirecTV collectively lost out was any hope for customers to pick and choose which basic channels to watch. The programmers (e.g. Viacom) won.
Another not so bright thing was when DirecTV was bought by Murdoch, the TiVo agreement died as Murdoch wanted to use an inhouse DVR to save costs, but then Murdoch doesn't see the synergy in owning DirecTV anymore and sells it off. A new TiVo deal is coming...but that wasn't the best move there. The good thing I suppose is it forced TiVo to stay in their own line, which eventually helped for the TiVo HD, which works great with digital cable and Fios TV. It'll be awhile before Fios TV penetrates enough market. I think Verizon is bundling and selling its services low, to just gain and increase marketshare quickly.
To be honest, I don't see the value of penny pinching when it comes to things like not carrying WMBC. I mean if they are going out of their way to carry low powered Spanish stations, they have room, opp.cost warranted for WMBC to have continued carriage. Its the small things that makes customers upset and eventually one day if they can look for something better.
IIRC, aren't the rules for satellite distribution on NCE/PBS stations also based on state location?
Using Philly for example, WHYY is licensed to Delaware, WNJ_ is licensed to New Jersey (multiple repeating stations), and WYBE and WLVT are licensed to Pennsylvania. If I understand correctly, satellite providers are only obligated to carry one NCE station from each state, and have chosen WHYY, WNJ_ and WVLT - with WYBE ending up on the short end of the stick. Also, at one time wasn't WYBE a secondary PBS affiliate - if it still isn't today...?
Jim
Using Philly for example, WHYY is licensed to Delaware, WNJ_ is licensed to New Jersey (multiple repeating stations), and WYBE and WLVT are licensed to Pennsylvania. If I understand correctly, satellite providers are only obligated to carry one NCE station from each state, and have chosen WHYY, WNJ_ and WVLT - with WYBE ending up on the short end of the stick. Also, at one time wasn't WYBE a secondary PBS affiliate - if it still isn't today...?
Jim
Well, DirecTV and Dish both carry 4 PBS stations in the Los Angeles and San Francisco locals, all originating in California of course. And, I'm not sure there maybe even more independent NCE stations included as well.
RE: WYBE. WYBE isn't a PBS station, and wasn't the last 15 years. I know the Ch.35 frequency had some WHYY ties to it though. More lately, for a few years the Philadelphia Inquirer put the 35 black bubble and then PBS under the listing, but the error was later corrected. The TV Guide book I don't think ever caught on to include 35's listings, unless until much later.
WYBE's schedule used to be more like NJN's with BBC World News, Wai Lana Yoga and shows that NJN would air. Its been years now since I've used the Inq. for tv station listings. Now, WYBE seems to have blocks of MIND, and the station I feel in general is less and less relevant, but I suppose there are some that still only get OTA or a few channels. DirecTV and Dish carry a channel called Link TV, which is a nice public interest channel alternative.
RE: WYBE. WYBE isn't a PBS station, and wasn't the last 15 years. I know the Ch.35 frequency had some WHYY ties to it though. More lately, for a few years the Philadelphia Inquirer put the 35 black bubble and then PBS under the listing, but the error was later corrected. The TV Guide book I don't think ever caught on to include 35's listings, unless until much later.
WYBE's schedule used to be more like NJN's with BBC World News, Wai Lana Yoga and shows that NJN would air. Its been years now since I've used the Inq. for tv station listings. Now, WYBE seems to have blocks of MIND, and the station I feel in general is less and less relevant, but I suppose there are some that still only get OTA or a few channels. DirecTV and Dish carry a channel called Link TV, which is a nice public interest channel alternative.
Local dropping: There is a lot of unhappy customers re: DirecTV's drop of WSKY 4 in the Norfolk market.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/directv-viewers-wskytv-channel-4-goes-dark
Apparently the station manager/engineer screwed up and didn't file must-carry on time. DirecTV saw it as a green light to drop WSKY, rather than work with the station, that wasn't charging anything for the signal anyways. I'm wondering if WMBC just threw in the towel (for DirecTV NYC locals) as they didn't get on must-carry again this cycle either. Maybe they figure the fiber optic run to DirecTV's point of presence isn't worth it.
Its short-sided that DirecTV and Dish are dropping channels, where Fios is adding so many channels and isn't shorting customers on their locals.
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/12/directv-viewers-wskytv-channel-4-goes-dark
Apparently the station manager/engineer screwed up and didn't file must-carry on time. DirecTV saw it as a green light to drop WSKY, rather than work with the station, that wasn't charging anything for the signal anyways. I'm wondering if WMBC just threw in the towel (for DirecTV NYC locals) as they didn't get on must-carry again this cycle either. Maybe they figure the fiber optic run to DirecTV's point of presence isn't worth it.
Its short-sided that DirecTV and Dish are dropping channels, where Fios is adding so many channels and isn't shorting customers on their locals.
- Status