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WOAI and KTSA Strenghth In Austin

> I can receive KTSA clearly during the day but they are not
> there at all at night.
>
> WOAI is strong day and night. Very strong during the day.
>

I believe KTSA has to cut power at night. They are 5K during the day. WOAI has a directional signal. Their night time signal shifts, instead of power being cut. <P ID="signature">______________
"I Believe In The Power Of Love."
Luther Vandross 1951-2005</P>
 
>
> I believe KTSA has to cut power at night. They are 5K
> during the day. WOAI has a directional signal. Their night
> time signal shifts, instead of power being cut.
>
KTSA has a multi-lobe directional pattern. It doesn't go northeast to Austin at night. WOAI has a center-fed 180 degree phased two-segment antenna, and no pattern whatsover. The nature of their sky-wave is to skip over areas about 150 miles away, and come back down about 3 or 4 hundred miles away. Depending on the upper layers of the ionosphere, they can come back down and bounce back up off the ocean, and be heard in Japan, Sweden and France. They have a very strong ground-wave locally, but it starts to fade by the time you get past Temple. 1190 blocks them in Dallas, but I remember hearing what sounded like a city-grade signal in Wyoming, in a thunderstorm!
 
> > I can receive KTSA clearly during the day but they are not
>
> > there at all at night.
> >
> > WOAI is strong day and night. Very strong during the day.
>
> I believe KTSA has to cut power at night. They are 5K
> during the day. WOAI has a directional signal. Their night
> time signal shifts, instead of power being cut.

WOAI is a Class 1A clear, NON directional at 50KW 24/7....KTSA is a Class B regional and 5KW Omni day, directional night (still 5 kW) throwing most of its signal to the SW (200KW ERP)...and a null at 30degrees true (Which IIRC is toward Austin)....less than 1 KW..even due north its less than 2500watts at night.
 
> KTSA has a multi-lobe directional pattern. It doesn't go
> northeast to Austin at night. WOAI has a center-fed 180
> degree phased two-segment antenna, and no pattern whatsover.

WOAI changed their xmtr site and went to a conventional 1/2 wave radiator if memory serves...they no longer have the multisectional (sometimes called a Franklin) antenna. Their radiation went from 420mV/m/KW to 400mV/m/KW at the new site.
 
>
> WOAI changed their xmtr site and went to a conventional 1/2
> wave radiator if memory serves...they no longer have the
> multisectional (sometimes called a Franklin) antenna. Their
> radiation went from 420mV/m/KW to 400mV/m/KW at the new
> site.
>
My info is from more than 10 years ago... Back then they had two full-power transmitter sites. Did they retire one of them? Were they both 'Franklin' antennae? I recall them going off pretty often in the late '80s. Was that why they changed?
 
>
> WOAI is a Class 1A clear, NON directional at 50KW
> 24/7....KTSA is a Class B regional and 5KW Omni day,
> directional night (still 5 kW) throwing most of its signal
> to the SW (200KW ERP)...and a null at 30degrees true (Which
> IIRC is toward Austin)....less than 1 KW..even due north its
> less than 2500watts at night.
>

Thanks for the clarification. :)<P ID="signature">______________
"I Believe In The Power Of Love."
Luther Vandross 1951-2005</P>
 
> KTSA is a Class B regional and 5KW Omni day,
> directional night (still 5 kW) throwing most of its signal
> to the SW (200KW ERP)...and a null at 30degrees true

Has KTSA reengineered its signal pattern in recent years? During the 60's I remember KTSA putting in a reasonably decent nighttime signal where I lived in north Austin. Perhaps the null wasn't as deep then...I guess it existed to protect the co-channel stations in St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Buffalo.

Of course the daytime signal boomed into Austin in those days. Just about everyone I knew had KTSA as a preset pushbutton on their car radios, to give them a Top 40 alternative to KNOW. KONO was also set in many cars, however their signal, while good during the day, completely vanished at night when they cut their power and switched to the directional pattern--I remember the old KOAM Pittsburg, Kansas would usually dominate 860 at night in Austin.
 
WOAI has never been a problem in Austin, day or night. At night, WOAI covers a good chunk of the country. Booms in like a local most nights in Colorado Springs, Kansas City, and Omaha (past residences). I have also picked up WOAI fairly well in Las Vegas and parts of Southern CA. Also covers most of Florida quite well.


> >
> > WOAI is a Class 1A clear, NON directional at 50KW
> > 24/7....KTSA is a Class B regional and 5KW Omni day,
> > directional night (still 5 kW) throwing most of its signal
>
> > to the SW (200KW ERP)...and a null at 30degrees true
> (Which
> > IIRC is toward Austin)....less than 1 KW..even due north
> its
> > less than 2500watts at night.
> >
>
> Thanks for the clarification. :)
>
 
> >
> > WOAI changed their xmtr site and went to a conventional
> 1/2
> > wave radiator if memory serves...they no longer have the
> > multisectional (sometimes called a Franklin) antenna.
> Their
> > radiation went from 420mV/m/KW to 400mV/m/KW at the new
> > site.
> >
> My info is from more than 10 years ago... Back then they had
> two full-power transmitter sites. Did they retire one of
> them? Were they both 'Franklin' antennae? I recall them
> going off pretty often in the late '80s. Was that why they
> changed?
>

WOAI has not had two full power sites simultaneously, at least since 1958.

In 1958 an Air Force Bomber hit the tower site near Selma, Texas, (now a Hooter's on I H 35.) (See http://www.oldradio.com/archives/warstories/1200.htm)

The site was move to Wilson County, near Elmendorf, Texas. Director of Engineering Charles Jeffers and consulting engineer A.D. Ring designed and constructed a vertical, sectional, center fed, antenna sometimes referred to as a “Franklin” antenna. (I might add the Elmendorf site was a very unusual site, not only because the "Franklin" but also because the transmitter was located in the WOAI-TV transmitter building while the antenna was just over a ½ mile away and was fed by open wire, balanced, line.)

The antenna design was a good design; however, the ground conductivity in Wilson County, Texas is that of glass. For this reasons, in 1984, John Furr, moved the site to Guadalupe County near the community of Marion where there was a band of conductivity of approx 30 millimho. A similar “Franklin” design was erected here. Parts of the old, Elmendorf site were used to construct this site.

The Marion antenna had several design changes and transmitter problems. While it worked as it was supposed to work, it was never a reliable antenna. It was plagued by coaxial burn-outs, lightning strikes, etc.

The design could have been corrected, but due to reasons beyond the control of the locals, the site was redesigned as a standard ½ wave antenna. Jack Sellmeyer designed and engineered the ½ wave antenna which went into operation in April 1998. (Jack's preference would have been to repair the sectional antenna.)

During the construction of the ½ wave antenna, WOAI continued to operate on ¼ wave, 10 Kw backup site, located at the Elmendorf site where the original “Franklin” was constructed.
 
> >
>
> WOAI has not had two full power sites simultaneously, at
> least since 1958.
in 1984, John Furr, moved the site to
> Guadalupe County near the community of Marion> During the construction of the ½ wave antenna, WOAI
> continued to operate on ¼ wave, 10 Kw backup site, located
> at the Elmendorf site where the original “Franklin” was
> constructed.
>
Begging to differ. In 1986 WOAI had two full-power 50kw transmitter sites, and a back-up in the parking lot of the 6222 building on I-10. I remember both full-power facilities were quite flakey, but as one would cut out, the other would kick in instantaneously.
I also remember more than a few times having the parking lot transmitter operating back then. Despite the extensive copper screenings on the windows, the 'rf' got into the studio equipment.
One time I was driving through the most intense thunderstorm I ever saw. It was 3 am, on I-35 near New Braunfels. The static completely drowned out KTSA, but on 1200, I didn't even hear the crackle. That must have been the Guadalupe county transmitter you mention.
Furr is one of the best engineers I ever met. His motto is "I stake my reputation on good ground". I remember working at a staton in the 70's, and the day they told him he was fired, he came into the studio, opened up the Gates board, and cleaned the contacts on the 'pots'.
 
> Furr is one of the best engineers I ever met. His motto is
> "I stake my reputation on good ground". I remember working
> at a staton in the 70's, and the day they told him he was
> fired, he came into the studio, opened up the Gates board,
> and cleaned the contacts on the 'pots'.

If he is such a great engineer, why did he get fired? (sorry had to ask!)
And Clear Channel let him go because he kept promising in the 80s to make KHYS 98.5 Port Arthur a Houston station on its 2000ft tower....went through 4 or 5 different antennas before CC had enough....hell the local engineers kept telling him, NOPE wont work....and never has! A rimshot is a rimshot and this one never does well in Houston (especially the west and SW side...).
I understand Furr works or owns his own tower/consulting company...
 
> And Clear Channel let him go because he kept promising in
> the 80s to make KHYS 98.5 Port Arthur a Houston station on
> its 2000ft tower....went through 4 or 5 different antennas
> before CC had enough....hell the local engineers kept
> telling him, NOPE wont work....and never has! A rimshot is a
> rimshot and this one never does well in Houston (especially
> the west and SW side...).


The way I heard it, the problem was the STL throw from the Galleria area to the transmmitter. I don't think it was Furr's idea to locate the studios in west Houston. Furr has done quite well for himself as a consultant and particiating in some of John Barger's deals.
>
 
> I can receive KTSA clearly during the day but they are not
> there at all at night.
>
> WOAI is strong day and night. Very strong during the day.
>


KTSA comes in great in south padre. woai's signal is sketchy at best. I could tune in 550 all the way down i-37 and highway 77.
 
> The way I heard it, the problem was the STL throw from the
> Galleria area to the transmmitter. I don't think it was
> Furr's idea to locate the studios in west Houston. Furr has
> done quite well for himself as a consultant and particiating
> in some of John Barger's deals.

Well, any station will put their studios in the West side of Houston....none of the FM are in the east side (even the rim shots)...The STL always has been a PITA but then its a 50+ mile shot to the tower from downtown....they have had to use 100watt amps and even then the STL fades (there was a diversity system on the Devers tower but it was dropped later after a STL was installed from KSHN's studios to the tower...I have heard that the current Liberman chief wants to reuse the diversity system since they now have a STL from the Bering studios to Chase tower and then on to Devers...but it has fade issues also)

I know there was 3 different antennas used on KHYS in the beginning to get the signal to cover Houston better...but with the tower being where its at, ANY good engineer (even the MUAZK guys!) knows the rimshot wont cover Houston well...city grade barely makes it over the east side of town...west side where the population is?? FORGET it....(Cumulus is suffering this with two rimshots now)
 
In March/April of 1986, WOAI had a single, 50 Kw, transmitter site located near Marion. Clear Channel still owned the Wilson County site where the 1958 Franklyn was built, but there was no equipment at the site except a the tower base, foundation for the doghouse, and guy anchor positions. A number of the components antenna components from Wilson Site were robbed to build the new one at Marion. This rendered the Wilson site inoperable for a several weeks prior to the commencement of operation from new site.

The Marion site had two 50 Kw transmitters. The main was a Continental 317-C2 that was a new installation. The backup was a Continental 317-B, serial number 2, that was moved from the Wilson County site. The B model was inoperable until late 1987 while it was being rebuilt.

The studio site you mentioned was a backup transmitter site, which was used during the transition between the Marion and Wilson County sites. It was equipped with a RCA, BTA-5, 5 kilowatt transmitter, (which if I am not mistaken, was purchased from KTFM in the late 70's.) (The PA tubes, manual, and “meat ball” are still around. Jack Sellmeyer got most of the iron.)

The studios were located on the 2nd floor of the 222 building and they were screened because of RF. I hazard a guess that even if the site had only been 1 Kw they would have still been screened. The antenna was only 150’ and shunt feed. The tower was situated in such a way that, at the closest point, the studios less than 25’ away.

Had this site ever operated at 50 Kw there would have been a lot of employees would be missing digits or at least with very good sun tans :) The tower was never fenced and could not be fence because it would have blocked the rear exit of the building. It was either fence antenna to meet FCC regs or violate fire codes…so in 1994 the RCA BTA-5 went away and the 10 Kw site back up site was built in Wilson County at the site of the original 1958/59 Franklin. The Western tower at the rear of the 222 building was replaced with a 150’ monopole.

The Wilson Standby site was used during the transition between the Franklyn and the standard 1/2 wave antenna at the Marion site.



> > >
> >
> > WOAI has not had two full power sites simultaneously, at
> > least since 1958.
> in 1984, John Furr, moved the site to
> > Guadalupe County near the community of Marion> During the
> construction of the ½ wave antenna, WOAI
> > continued to operate on ¼ wave, 10 Kw backup site, located
>
> > at the Elmendorf site where the original “Franklin” was
> > constructed.
> >
> Begging to differ. In 1986 WOAI had two full-power 50kw
> transmitter sites, and a back-up in the parking lot of the
> 6222 building on I-10. I remember both full-power facilities
> were quite flakey, but as one would cut out, the other would
> kick in instantaneously.
> I also remember more than a few times having the parking lot
> transmitter operating back then. Despite the extensive
> copper screenings on the windows, the 'rf' got into the
> studio equipment.
> One time I was driving through the most intense thunderstorm
> I ever saw. It was 3 am, on I-35 near New Braunfels. The
> static completely drowned out KTSA, but on 1200, I didn't
> even hear the crackle. That must have been the Guadalupe
> county transmitter you mention.
> Furr is one of the best engineers I ever met. His motto is
> "I stake my reputation on good ground". I remember working
> at a staton in the 70's, and the day they told him he was
> fired, he came into the studio, opened up the Gates board,
> and cleaned the contacts on the 'pots'.
>
 
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