J
Jul
Guest
From Big Apple Radio Blog: http://nyradio.blogspot.com/
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T
TheLaffer
Guest
Mike said:thats CBS radio for ya
I agree. I think CBS will eventually blow up WOGL. Hey it's OLDIES and nobody seems to believe in it anymore. It's music that rarely appeals to anyone under 45. CBS along with others in recent years have blown out the good talent and hired questionable PDs and Jocks in markets like Phoenix, San Francisco, Dallas and Atlanta.
Get ready because CBS and others are really into this Jack and Fresh formats. It's basically Pop Hit Oriented without any personality. IE:
Fresh 102.7 just hired a midday girl from Houston. She talked twice an hour and read the same liner cards year after year on a DEAD format and now she's in NYC!!!
Then there's the lame talent CBS is hiring in SFO.
J
Jul
Guest
Like the person in the blog said, start rolling audio cassette tape on WOGL 98.1 FM.TheLaffer said:I agree. I think CBS will eventually blow up WOGL. Hey it's OLDIES and nobody seems to believe in it anymore. It's music that rarely appeals to anyone under 45.
T
Those RRRRs
Guest
Like the person in the blog said, start rolling audio cassette tape on WOGL 98.1 FM.
If WOGL were to really go bye-bye's, any speculation on whether or not Greater Media would attempt 60's and 70's on WPEN?
It's been over a year since the switch to sports, and it's been a ratings disaster for them. The recent oldies debacle didn't work for them for many reasons, not the least of which was the existence of 98.1. But done correctly and with WOGL out of the way, people may actually switch over since 950 would be the only outlet for that music.
J
Jul
Guest
I don't think that GM would try it again on 950 AM because I think they will stick to sports for the long term but they may try the oldies format on 95.7 FM i think.Those RRRRs said:If WOGL were to really go bye-bye's, any speculation on whether or not Greater Media would attempt 60's and 70's on WPEN?
It's been over a year since the switch to sports, and it's been a ratings disaster for them. The recent oldies debacle didn't work for them for many reasons, not the least of which was the existence of 98.1. But done correctly and with WOGL out of the way, people may actually switch over since 950 would be the only outlet for that music.
8
8638
Guest
Yup, CBS is stupid enough to do just that. I'm within range of 102.7, and "Fresh" wouldn't be the moniker I'd apply to it. "Dreck" would be more like it. I just don't get CBS; they flipped WQSR in Baltimore, which had one of the highest TSL's of any oldies station, to the Jack format. And 'OGL was what, 5th in the last ratings book? That's worth nothing? Hey, in a way I hope they do flip, so they can be #20. And find themselves in a sea of red ink. If this happens, I'm down to KYW and WPHT. I like WJJZ too, but to me it ain't a Philly station if it doesn't have a Philly stick.
[\
It's been over a year since the switch to sports, and it's been a ratings disaster for them. The recent oldies debacle didn't work for them for many reasons, not the least of which was the existence of 98.1. But done correctly and with WOGL out of the way, people may actually switch over since 950 would be the only outlet for that music.
[/quote] I don't think that GM would try it again on 950 AM because I think they will stick to sports for the long term but they may try the oldies format on 95.7 FM i think.
[/quote]
not gonna happen it would be too Much $ to flip 95.7 to oldies they have to work on 97.5 right now
It's been over a year since the switch to sports, and it's been a ratings disaster for them. The recent oldies debacle didn't work for them for many reasons, not the least of which was the existence of 98.1. But done correctly and with WOGL out of the way, people may actually switch over since 950 would be the only outlet for that music.
[/quote] I don't think that GM would try it again on 950 AM because I think they will stick to sports for the long term but they may try the oldies format on 95.7 FM i think.
[/quote]
not gonna happen it would be too Much $ to flip 95.7 to oldies they have to work on 97.5 right now
When CBS flipped their Oldies stations in NYC and Chicago to the mostly-gold Adult Hits "Jack-FM" format in 2005, I said at that time (though not in this forum) that the only reason they didn't blow up the Oldies format here as well was because Greater Media had beaten them to the punch with "Ben-FM" (and I note that, in the link above, "Diamond Joe" agrees), much as G-Media had beaten Chancellor (before the CC takeover) to the punch with Urban Oldies "Jammin' Gold" in 1999 (Chancellor had copyrighted the "Jammin' Oldies" name).
The "Jack-FM" flip failed dismally in both markets. CBS expected to lose 12+ share, but they also expected to offset that loss with big gains in 25-34 and 35-44, which are more attaractive to most time buyers.
Well, at least they were right about the first premise!
Of course, the Philly, NY and Chicago stations were already losing some 12+ share, but that was largely their own fault. Beginning in April 2001 -- though WOGL briefly backtracked from Oct '01 until sometime in '02 -- they dropped almost all pre-British Invasion music, and later almost everything (except for some Motown and a few other odds and ends) from before about 1968.
This doesn't make any sense. See the Coleman study, "Oldies Insights 2003: Is Newer Music helping or Hurting?" (http://www.colemaninsights.com/onlines/Coleman Oldies Insights Winter 2003.pdf)
Coleman found that a heavy emphasis on Motown seemed to have no significant effect one way or the other; that going heavy on Hard Rock and/or '70s material (two categories that overlap) was harmful; and that newer music doesn’t necessarily attract younger audiences. In fact, stations with older music actually had a slightly younger audience, though not by a statistically significant margin. They explained that finding by theorizing that younger listeners "to be more in synch with their expectations ," while older listeners stick with the station because they have nowhere else to go."
But in fact, a lot of us do have somewhere else to go, and it's public radio. Except for Accu-Weather and "traffic-on-the-twos" from KYW, and occasionally Street Corner Sunday with Harvey Holiday (on 'OGL, at least for now), I just don't listen to commercial radio at all anymore.
So why do I still follow the goings-on on this board? Well, why do people gawk at an accident along the highway? Morbid curiosity!
The "Jack-FM" flip failed dismally in both markets. CBS expected to lose 12+ share, but they also expected to offset that loss with big gains in 25-34 and 35-44, which are more attaractive to most time buyers.
Well, at least they were right about the first premise!
Of course, the Philly, NY and Chicago stations were already losing some 12+ share, but that was largely their own fault. Beginning in April 2001 -- though WOGL briefly backtracked from Oct '01 until sometime in '02 -- they dropped almost all pre-British Invasion music, and later almost everything (except for some Motown and a few other odds and ends) from before about 1968.
This doesn't make any sense. See the Coleman study, "Oldies Insights 2003: Is Newer Music helping or Hurting?" (http://www.colemaninsights.com/onlines/Coleman Oldies Insights Winter 2003.pdf)
Coleman found that a heavy emphasis on Motown seemed to have no significant effect one way or the other; that going heavy on Hard Rock and/or '70s material (two categories that overlap) was harmful; and that newer music doesn’t necessarily attract younger audiences. In fact, stations with older music actually had a slightly younger audience, though not by a statistically significant margin. They explained that finding by theorizing that younger listeners "to be more in synch with their expectations ," while older listeners stick with the station because they have nowhere else to go."
But in fact, a lot of us do have somewhere else to go, and it's public radio. Except for Accu-Weather and "traffic-on-the-twos" from KYW, and occasionally Street Corner Sunday with Harvey Holiday (on 'OGL, at least for now), I just don't listen to commercial radio at all anymore.
So why do I still follow the goings-on on this board? Well, why do people gawk at an accident along the highway? Morbid curiosity!
C
crmc
Guest
Check out KYKY, St.Louis...." Y-98" "Your 98" is a hot AC. Fresh seems to fit that type of station quite well. Perhaps " Your" speculation is pointed that way?
As for WOGL...it seems to be enjoying ratings that are among it's best ever...4th 12+, 5th in A 25-54, 3rd in A 35-64.....Top 3 in Women demos..., both in the current book and a 4 book average.
Perhaps all this free PR on it's demise is adding to it's almost unprecedented success???
As for WOGL...it seems to be enjoying ratings that are among it's best ever...4th 12+, 5th in A 25-54, 3rd in A 35-64.....Top 3 in Women demos..., both in the current book and a 4 book average.
Perhaps all this free PR on it's demise is adding to it's almost unprecedented success???
J
Jul
Guest
You should really post a picture of this for proof.amfmsw said:Rt 295 billboard:
WOGL 98.1 Classic Hits
Music from the '70's, 80's and 90's.
Not a joke.
C
crmc
Guest
The billboard says:
98.1 WOGL
Greatest Hits of the 60s and 70s
98.1 WOGL
Greatest Hits of the 60s and 70s
J
Jul
Guest
Check out Diamond Joe's latest thoughts on this story: http://nyradio.blogspot.com/2007/02/fresh-981-reaction.html
D
dubya3qt
Guest
Julius May said:You should really post a picture of this for proof.amfmsw said:Rt 295 billboard:
WOGL 98.1 Classic Hits
Music from the '70's, 80's and 90's.
Not a joke.
Are you calling amfmsw a liar? If you would check, you would see CBS Radio lists WOGL as a Classic Hits station.
I think you owe amfmsw an apology.
C
crmc
Guest
Respectfully....what does a descriptive categorical industry classification of a radio station that listeners do not see and the ad copy on a billboard have to do with one another?
Thanks, but none necessary. I really was asking a question and posted it wrong with sloppy typing. Someone mentioned they saw it, and I was trying to ask if it was true.
I think most can all agree that the successful "Oldies" stations are slowly morphing into "Classic Hits" style of music anyway. The ones that don't will be left in the dust like WPEN and WRDR with their "Standards" format.
I think most can all agree that the successful "Oldies" stations are slowly morphing into "Classic Hits" style of music anyway. The ones that don't will be left in the dust like WPEN and WRDR with their "Standards" format.
Lucrative "Ratings Disasters", Future Of WOGL
The year of Oldies on WPEN was indeed an all-around disaster for a variety of reasons. Diamond Jim Nettleton was kind enough to articulate much of this from his insider's perspective on The Radio Racket several months back.
The current Sports format on WPEN may be a [12+] "ratings disaster", but that doesn't mean it's a financial one. ARB numbers are only meaningful if they can effectively be sold, and most of today's big-market stations don't have sales staffs with the know-how (or for that matter, desire) to sell the demos that WPEN (while running Standards) delivered, kickass 12+ shares or not. I remain amazed over how many otherwise intelligent radio observers continue failing to understand this.
The situation with WOGL today (and most other heritage big-market Oldies stations) is very similar to the one with WPEN just a few years ago-- big (but dwindling) payroll, decent (but aging) listenership, and heritage. As for the last one on the list-- the call letters are TOO well-branded in this market. Sure, WOGL can drop the "O" word. The station can completely flush the '50s (save for Elvis at 3AM), slash much of the '60s, and slide in more '70s (I'm regularly hearing two, sometimes three '70s cuts in a row during drive times now). It won't matter. In the minds of today's 25-54s, WOGL may as well still be playing Bill Haley And His Comets, Danny And The Juniors, etc. Those call letters mean Oldies in this town just as much as the word itself. And for CBS, that's a problem that won't be going away anytime soon (unless this "Fresh" speculation is true).
No, "Fresh" isn't the answer. But I have a good feeling Diamond Joe's discovery is more than just nine bucks spent at GoDaddy.
We know the music on WOGL is totally different now from what it was ten years ago. We also know the public has an indelible image of the station's being synonymous with the Oldies format. And as I've been saying for years, to the general public, "oldies" (the songs) as well as "Oldies" (the format) consist/consists of music from roughly 1955-72 with a few exceptions on the more recent end. (Radio people love to think "oldies" are songs that are more than twenty years old-- the word refers to a specific time period in the history of Rock-and-Roll; it is not a rolling chronology.)
To me, the answer is simple.
In 1993, Jerry Lee did what many (including myself) believed to be unthinkable. He dumped one of the most recognized brand names in the history of Philadelphia radio; it was a name he had spent many years and many millions establishing. "EAZY 101" (and later, "EZ-101") was a great name when it came into being (just as was the WDVR callsign it replaced), and it served the station very well for over a decade. But it outlived its usefulness, even as the station itself continued to perform very well 12+ (and in other key demos). Lee's research showed that, even though his station's music had changed drastically over the years (including that famous/infamous overnight dumping of Beautiful Music), public perception of the station was still of strings thanks to the "EAZY" moniker's tremendous branding power. So the station goes with something as inane and uncreative as the letter "B" and finds itself having to re-brand all over again. Is anyone prepared to argue B-101 isn't one of the most successful American radio stations in the history of the medium?
WOGL should change its name to something vague and meaningless. (What letters of the alphabet are available?) Keep the jocks who aren't closely connected with the Oldies days. Re-image everything, but keep much (though not all) of the music selection as is. Stay away from obvious classic rock (Led Zeppelin), but continue to pound classic hits (Jefferson Starship-- play "Miracles" but not "Jane"). Keep Beatles records, while reducing airplay of the earlier "bubblegum" hits ("Can't Buy Me Love", "I Want To Hold Your Hand"). And for God's sake, stop forcefeeding Philadelphia with Motown just for the sake of playing Motown. Carefully select the right records, and space them out more. Same thing goes for disco. Don't just play Donna Summer because you can.
Would this idea be fresh? Of course not. But neither would be "Fresh". Sadly, most listeners don't want "fresh". They just want "fresher".
The year of Oldies on WPEN was indeed an all-around disaster for a variety of reasons. Diamond Jim Nettleton was kind enough to articulate much of this from his insider's perspective on The Radio Racket several months back.
The current Sports format on WPEN may be a [12+] "ratings disaster", but that doesn't mean it's a financial one. ARB numbers are only meaningful if they can effectively be sold, and most of today's big-market stations don't have sales staffs with the know-how (or for that matter, desire) to sell the demos that WPEN (while running Standards) delivered, kickass 12+ shares or not. I remain amazed over how many otherwise intelligent radio observers continue failing to understand this.
The situation with WOGL today (and most other heritage big-market Oldies stations) is very similar to the one with WPEN just a few years ago-- big (but dwindling) payroll, decent (but aging) listenership, and heritage. As for the last one on the list-- the call letters are TOO well-branded in this market. Sure, WOGL can drop the "O" word. The station can completely flush the '50s (save for Elvis at 3AM), slash much of the '60s, and slide in more '70s (I'm regularly hearing two, sometimes three '70s cuts in a row during drive times now). It won't matter. In the minds of today's 25-54s, WOGL may as well still be playing Bill Haley And His Comets, Danny And The Juniors, etc. Those call letters mean Oldies in this town just as much as the word itself. And for CBS, that's a problem that won't be going away anytime soon (unless this "Fresh" speculation is true).
No, "Fresh" isn't the answer. But I have a good feeling Diamond Joe's discovery is more than just nine bucks spent at GoDaddy.
We know the music on WOGL is totally different now from what it was ten years ago. We also know the public has an indelible image of the station's being synonymous with the Oldies format. And as I've been saying for years, to the general public, "oldies" (the songs) as well as "Oldies" (the format) consist/consists of music from roughly 1955-72 with a few exceptions on the more recent end. (Radio people love to think "oldies" are songs that are more than twenty years old-- the word refers to a specific time period in the history of Rock-and-Roll; it is not a rolling chronology.)
To me, the answer is simple.
In 1993, Jerry Lee did what many (including myself) believed to be unthinkable. He dumped one of the most recognized brand names in the history of Philadelphia radio; it was a name he had spent many years and many millions establishing. "EAZY 101" (and later, "EZ-101") was a great name when it came into being (just as was the WDVR callsign it replaced), and it served the station very well for over a decade. But it outlived its usefulness, even as the station itself continued to perform very well 12+ (and in other key demos). Lee's research showed that, even though his station's music had changed drastically over the years (including that famous/infamous overnight dumping of Beautiful Music), public perception of the station was still of strings thanks to the "EAZY" moniker's tremendous branding power. So the station goes with something as inane and uncreative as the letter "B" and finds itself having to re-brand all over again. Is anyone prepared to argue B-101 isn't one of the most successful American radio stations in the history of the medium?
WOGL should change its name to something vague and meaningless. (What letters of the alphabet are available?) Keep the jocks who aren't closely connected with the Oldies days. Re-image everything, but keep much (though not all) of the music selection as is. Stay away from obvious classic rock (Led Zeppelin), but continue to pound classic hits (Jefferson Starship-- play "Miracles" but not "Jane"). Keep Beatles records, while reducing airplay of the earlier "bubblegum" hits ("Can't Buy Me Love", "I Want To Hold Your Hand"). And for God's sake, stop forcefeeding Philadelphia with Motown just for the sake of playing Motown. Carefully select the right records, and space them out more. Same thing goes for disco. Don't just play Donna Summer because you can.
Would this idea be fresh? Of course not. But neither would be "Fresh". Sadly, most listeners don't want "fresh". They just want "fresher".
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