WOGL IS VULNERABLE TAKE IT ON SOMEBODY

[cbsstaffer]

Its funny why no other station has decided to try and take some numbers from OGL and have a piece of that OGL exclusive pie. Every other station has some sort of competition, OGL has been surviving much too long with a lousy playlist and presentation with no competition, bring in the old line the only game in town so we do what we please. Lets say BEN went after them it would free them up from competing against their two sisters with Rock music. BEN could play many oh wow cuts and concentrate on the 50's and 60's and let up on the rhythmic oldies that OGL is famous for with that long time PD CAM alumni still pulling the strings. A mix of old PEN standards plus the 50's and 60's rock and roll cuts would catipult them to the top. This would also make OGL strive to better themselves, ala MMR now better with some competition in place.

 

[oaktree]

I would doubt anyone would want to divide that pie ... demographic wise, it would be a disaster, splitting up those exclusive shares. No one would win, because the core music still attracts only a limited bona fide number of loyal P1 listeners ... the rest would divide and conquer. Plus, it would duplicate the music too much, especially if it were either Philly based "oh wow" (too easy to duplicate) or too esoteric for people who don't live in the oldies generation.

There are very strict lines that can and cannot be crossed, unlike in other format genres ... and it would cause a flameout potentially for both. Remember, back in the day, 'FIL and WIBG competed head to head because they were "current" radio stations of the time ... not "oldies" stations of the day.

'OGL is vulnerable ... just not where people think it is and, apparently, they are happy with the "status quo." Not much more in it for someone else to do in a major way.

And how do you sell a competitor with a format that is far from exclusively 25-54 ... skewing the upper end of that ... and delivers a lot more 45+ than anything? Agencies would have a tough time with that.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

It is a shame that the largest population block (baby boomers) has been tossed aside by the ad agencies and radio, but the younger set is who they want so that's who they program their stations and target their ads for. It's a shame that the ad agencies haven't figured out that there's a lot of money to be made by selling to that 50+ group. As with everything else the boomers have touched, they are changing how being retired will be. They will travel and do more things than the previous groups. They won't just sit at home in a rocking chair. They'll still be living active lives buying things. It's hard to believe that some smart entrepenur hasn't figured out how to capitalize on the boomers and make their ad agency and the radio stations they represent some big time money. We are the last generation that still really listens to the radio. Those younger groups prefer Ipods, internet, XM, etc.

However, as boomers do have money to spend, they can also buy their own CD's and tune out radio, so I'd not wait too long to target this large group. I know plenty of my boomer friends who already are tuning out and listening to CD's for music (you can get a lot of music with a 200 or 400 CD changer that essentially would provide a far larger playlist than most radio stations) and audio books (the fastest growing book section in the public library is the audio book section).

Essentially I listen to the radio for news/weather/traffic (WILM), some talk and informational programming mainly on NPR (WHYY-FM), sometimes Glenn Beck on (WPHT) or Al Messitti on (WDEL). When I want Classical Music during the day or Jazz at night (WRTI 107.7 - the Wilmington translator). But for Oldies I ditch the radio and play my own CD's as I don't like WOGL's skewed playlist. I also listen to audio books. It's amazing how rush hour driving goes so much faster when listening to an audio book. Next thing you know, you're at work. So maybe this discussion is academic as more and more of us boomers are tuning out more and more. WOGL isn't the only game in town. A friend of mine has three CD changers tied in together somehow and has a library of over 900 CDs (that's a lot of music). He told me he doesn't listen to the radio except for the news/weather/ sports results/ and traffic.

 

[oaktree]

You've raised some great points, Mike. But consider these, too, please...

Who are the agency buyers today? The ones I deal with are the out of college, mid-20s to 30-somethings who grew up in a non-"oldies" generation. They don't know the music of the 60s and most, don't know the music or style of the 70s. They don't relate to what "was" ... a shame, but fact.

Next, it costs a lot more to "chase" that desirable demo. With most every station going after that elusive and frequently fickle 18-34 or 25-44 (or even 49) ... it costs a lot more to divide the pie to cover that still-growing demo ... than to put a lot in the "old and staid" generation (of which I am proudly one ... on the very tip of the 25-54.) It would cost as much or more to chase that demo which doesn't like to change buying habits after so long, it has a "brand loyalty" that is like preaching to the choir to some buyers who say, "Oh, we know they're important ... but they'll be there anyway."

The concept of reach vs. frequency works better in chasing the younger target, as the frequency must be there ... because the TSL is often much lower than with the upper demos. Reaching those young demos then affords the benefit of more reach and frequency for those who stick around long enough to hear spots more often. The older demo sticks around longer, but, unfortunately, often not frequently enough ... staying at one station or changing media completely (like to TV) ... or by not listening at all. The younger demos still stay in touch with "media" on a more constant basis ... and a lot of that involving listening to music and, hopefully, to radio.

Button-pushing among the younger demos gives a better chance of even "hit and miss" from station-to-station that with the one or two stations that the majority of older demos listens to.

 

[Those RRRRs]

What I think is the most interesting aspect of this post, is that in late spring / early summer of 2007, someone posted a topic about how WOGL should pay homage to the 40th anniversary of the summer of love. "CBSSTAFFER" responded by saying that he thought this was a great idea and he would bring it to the attention of the suits.

And now he is on here urging someone to "take on" WOGGLE and bring them down. Another satisfied employee of the radio biz perhaps?

 

[MikefromDelaware]

Oaktree, you make some good points. I'm passed the 25-54 range (56) and I am far more brand loyal then when I was younger. Part of that is, you know what works why experiment and get burned with a less satisfactory product (Most of the cars I've driven have been Ford's and have been exclusively since the 1980's and haven't considered switching as my experience with their cars has been good. Also, as you age, allergies can increase so staying with a laundry detergent or deodorant that works is what many of us tend to do, thus making your point about brand loyalty. The other part of that is we are less likely to believe the claims made in the spots as they tend to over exagerate what the product will do, as I tend to station surf when the spot breaks come on, just like with TV.

 

[davideduardo]

It is a shame that the largest population block (baby boomers) has been tossed aside by the ad agencies and radio, but the younger set is who they want so that's who they program their stations and target their ads for. It's a shame that the ad agencies haven't figured out that there's a lot of money to be made by selling to that 50+ group.

This subject has been pretty well beaten to death on the oldies sections, but here are the bullet points:

1. Agencies don't make the demo decisions usually... it is the agency client.
2. Age targets are determined by costly ongoing market research.
3. There are very few buys for 55+, even less after the mortgage crisis.
4. Agency media departments can not change demo targeting.
5. Advertisers don't go after 55+ because, in general, the cost per sale is too high; older consumers require more ad impressions to make them change buying habits, and the cost of that is higher than the profit on the sale.
6. This affects many formats, including Soft Jazz, news / talk and others as well. 55+ is a very difficult and almost imposible demo to sell for radio.

 

[LocalRadio]

This subject has been pretty well beaten to death on the oldies sections, but here are the bullet points:

1. Agencies don't make the demo decisions usually... it is the agency client.
2. Age targets are determined by costly ongoing market research.
3. There are very few buys for 55+, even less after the mortgage crisis.
4. Agency media departments can not change demo targeting.
5. Advertisers don't go after 55+ because, in general, the cost per sale is too high; older consumers require more ad impressions to make them change buying habits, and the cost of that is higher than the profit on the sale.
6. This affects many formats, including Soft Jazz, news / talk and others as well. 55+ is a very difficult and almost imposible demo to sell for radio.

Much like the USA Newtork character Monk, it must be both a blessing and a curse to know virtually everything about everything. Can't wait until you tackle cold fusion.

 

[oaktree]

David - If you would, 'splain this ...

In the latest New York PPM, which, while bogus and for "entertainment value" ... you made an excellent point of showing the Top 10 in the 25-54s. WABC, for instance, didn't show up.

But it did show up tied for 4th in the overall beauty contest numbers 12+.

Are there similarities with WOGL, in that the demo for news talk on 'ABC is as difficult as they "should be" for 'OGL ... yet, they both show up top 5 overall.

Is everyone listening to either oldies or talk 53, by chance?

We saw this at KOOL in Phoenix ... but that's a noted retirement communitiy with an older demographic. 35-49s or 35-54s there are gold.

How come? Thanks...

And thanks to MikefromDelaware.

 

[crmc]

Obviously this post , started by cbsstaffer, mustn't be the best example of a dedicated company soldier. Perhaps their career isn't going as great as they had hoped because of their own internal attitude. How about an honest assessment of a station with great personalities, creative imaging ,and promotions and marketing targeted to it's core listeners? The result: strong ratings and advertiser support. A 20 + year brand that is enjoying a nice run at the top of it's game.
WOGL left the oldies format behind when it kissed it's pink cadillac goodbye.It evolved where it's audience took it and has risen to a market leading position by all means of measurement.

The 50s sock hop songs are over 50 years old.They were great songs, but their time on mass appeal commercial radio has come and gone.The station evolved to survive. The format shifted to follow the tastes of the listeners that supported it, not the tastes of a message board of radio insiders , disgruntled journeymen broadcasters, or people who viewed radio from the sidelines.

 

[MikefromDelaware]

My guess is WOGL is pulling in some younger listeners due to the 70's disco music they play possibly making their median listener age at 45+. Maybe someone who has access to the actual data could shed some light on this as WOGL does seem to do well in the 12+ numbers and as they do play alot of disco and less of the early 60's music I could see how they'd pull in a somewhat younger female audience than the typical Oldies station as they possible appeal to the female listener that wants a slightly older mix of AC music than what WJBR or B-101 would offer. As I'm not a fan of disco and prefer music from the 50's, 60's, and early predisco 70's, WOGL isn't my cup of tea, but apparently someone is tuning in to 98.1 in farely large numbers.

Oaktree, in Phoenix with such a major part of the audience there being 53+ were there more than one Oldies station, possibly a Nostaligia station or two in that large market of "geezers"? What sort of spots did they run, and were those "geezer stations" profitable as far as you know? I guess parts of Florida would be in a similar older age situation as Phoenix.

I understand what David is saying, but it still somehow seems to be a waste and loss to the advertisers, the radio stations, and the older listeners that money can't be made with programming geared towards the "older demos". Interesting, NPR and PBS make big time money from Baby Boomer audiences during their begathons when they broadcast boomer nostaliga music or documentaries. They figured out how to pull in some of that generations' cash to their coffers. Of course until the advertisers decide that the older demo is worth pursuing then much of this discussion is moot as they, the advertisers, are radio's customers, not the listener. The listener who is the proper gender and age is the commodity that radio is promising to deliver to the sponsor. The older listener will not be sought, other than places possibly like Phoenix which would be the exception to the normal rule in terms of radio advertising.

 

[davideduardo]

This subject has been pretty well beaten to death on the oldies sections, but here are the bullet points:

1. Agencies don't make the demo decisions usually... it is the agency client.
2. Age targets are determined by costly ongoing market research.
3. There are very few buys for 55+, even less after the mortgage crisis.
4. Agency media departments can not change demo targeting.
5. Advertisers don't go after 55+ because, in general, the cost per sale is too high; older consumers require more ad impressions to make them change buying habits, and the cost of that is higher than the profit on the sale.
6. This affects many formats, including Soft Jazz, news / talk and others as well. 55+ is a very difficult and almost imposible demo to sell for radio.

Much like the USA Newtork character Monk, it must be both a blessing and a curse to know virtually everything about everything. Can't wait until you tackle cold fusion.

I know enough to see that there are essentially no agency buys against 55+. And that is the only issue here.

 

[davideduardo]

David - If you would, 'splain this ...

In the latest New York PPM, which, while bogus and for "entertainment value" ... you made an excellent point of showing the Top 10 in the 25-54s. WABC, for instance, didn't show up.

But it did show up tied for 4th in the overall beauty contest numbers 12+.

Are there similarities with WOGL, in that the demo for news talk on 'ABC is as difficult as they "should be" for 'OGL ... yet, they both show up top 5 overall.

Is everyone listening to either oldies or talk 53, by chance?

We saw this at KOOL in Phoenix ... but that's a noted retirement communitiy with an older demographic. 35-49s or 35-54s there are gold.

How come? Thanks...

And thanks to MikefromDelaware.

The average age in a couple of markets I checked for more-oldies-than-classic-hits staitons (like KRTH) is in the early 50's. They still have plenty of 35-54 to sell, but as this erodes, those stations will have to dump the older music and add more 70's and early 80's. When you see how these are sold (KRTH's GSM is now with us), they pretty much give away the 55+ and price based on the 25-54 part.

KOOL sells on its 25-54, per the manager of a competitor. Nobody at an agency wants the 55+, even in Phoenix... it is the ROI issue again. A good example is WDUV in Tampa, #1 by a mile in 12+, but not even top 20 in 25-54 with its soft AC / standards format. It bills 15th in the market.. because it is all 55+ and mostly 65+.

KOOL is heled by a morning show that is very strong under 55, although the music was getting stale. the new PD has started moving it younger, and the numbers show.

WOGL, which is a modified classic hits with some oldies throwbacks, is pretty good in 25-54, so it ranks nicely. Similarly, CBS-FM is now consistently in the top 10 in NY because the format has been repositioned for mostly 70's music.