WOGL Rebrands at Big 98.1

[davideduardo]

You're quoting ratings and stats as if the medium is on an upswing or even in its heyday. In my 41 years no one has ever asked me or anyone I know which radio stations I'm listening to or what I'd like to hear. The number of people who ever get a radio survey (and can be bothered to respond to it accurately - remember, what people say they want and what they actually want are two different things) seems to be a very small sample size.

First, there is the sample size of all people which is what Nielsen uses. Those samples are around one person out of every thousand for each survey.

Then there are research projects that a station does within its own target audience. A big perceptual in a market like NY or LA might cover 500 people, but all would be selected as liking a certain kind or music or format.

A music test might be around 100 people, all listeners to the format. So your chances of being invited to participate are very minimal. In the business we have done studies to see at what point a larger sample just gets more of the same results. What I just described is the product of that kind of study.

It's pretty clear they're looking for quick ratings over maximizing future listenership.

1. Play a concise heavy rotation playlist to give new listeners the vibe of the new station

That is an old system, not usually employed for any significant period of time.

1. Get some promising initial ratings
2. Fail to adequately expand and freshen playlist

If there are no more songs that get good listener reaction the library can't expand.

1. Listeners get bored and go elsewhere

Not a proven fact. Most listeners want to hear "their favorites every time they listen".

1. Ratings lag - flip the format!

Before that, a station does research.

1. Repeat until the carcass turns into a talk or religious station

Not all new products work in any business. Leader Proctor & Gamble has about half of its new, researched and tested products be discontinued after a year or two.

I'm not asking for deep tracks, just a wider variety format of multiple genres and decades that were somewhat high on the charts. This could easily produce a 500 song playlist without a single unfamiliar track.

Charts are not the basis for airplay. The question in a music test is "how much would you like to hear that song on the radio today?" Lots of songs that charted in the past are kisses of death today.

 

[JH_Radio]

Yes, you could have a 500 song playlist that people know all of the songs. but the question is, would they really wanna hear all of those songs?

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Heck not they wouldn’t.

 

[Rich_M]

The programmers have to find a way to lose some of the older listeners. This is what they've decided to do. You want a bigger & more diverse playlist? Listen to B101.

They're certainly certainly working hard to lose this 41 year old. B101 has too much slow stuff. WLEV is actually catching my attention a lot lately.

Leader Proctor & Gamble has about half of its new, researched and tested products be discontinued after a year or two.

But at least they're trying!

Being super adamant about what works and what doesn't while FM continues to lose ground as a medium is a big chunk of hubris. Those are the actions of an industry trying to slow the bleeding rather than adapt and innovate.

Yes, you could have a 500 song playlist that people know all of the songs. but the question is, would they really wanna hear all of those songs?

I sure would! I loved when MMR did "Back to School A-Z". Days and days of great songs with no repeats. Now expand that across a few genres, cut the bottom 10-20% of songs that didn't test well. and you've got a great station.

 

[TheBigA]

Being super adamant about what works and what doesn't while FM continues to lose ground as a medium is a big chunk of hubris. Those are the actions of an industry trying to slow the bleeding rather than adapt and innovate.

They're adapting and innovating by owning a streaming platform, from which you can stream any radio station or any combination of music. The situation with FM is limited by design. There's no adapting a square peg to fit in a round hole. A 500 song playlist isn't going to slow the bleeding. It will lose them advertisers, and cost them money.

 

[K.M. Richards]

I think that's a recurring theme here. Too afraid to play anything outside a rigid playlist, while being so repetitive I can't stand to listen more than a few hours a week. How many listeners are really scared off if a playlist contains a handful of more adventurous tracks, vs. listeners who don't come back because they've heard Jack and Diane/Free Fallin'/Hotel California for the 7th time this week. 🤷‍♂️

In some ways that makes you a typical listener, because radio is no longer a "listen continuously" medium. As people's listening habits have become more and more a case of listening several times a day, for short periods of time each time, radio adapted to make sure that when people tune in, they will always hear songs that are consensus favorites. But, if you are hearing a song "for the seventh time" in a given week, then you are also atypical, because typical listener behavior is predictable in that they generally listen at the approximate same time every day, for somewhere around 15 to 20 minutes every time. Programmers know this and adjust the music rotations accordingly to make songs repeat in a different daypart, different hour within that daypart, and different position in that hour, each time it plays.

Real world example for you: Here is the history from my Eighties Channel format for one of the songs you are apparently sick of ... "Free Fallin'" by Tom Petty. For the past month, more or less:

Sun 4/3/22 2:29pm
Mon 4/4/22 5:48pm
Tue 4/5/22 7:31pm
Wed 4/6/22 9:49pm
Fri 4/8/22 12:17am
Sat 4/9/22 2:18am
Sun 4/10/22 4:18am
Mon 4/11/22 6:30am
Tue 4/12/22 9:18am
Wed 4/13/22 11:10am
Thu 4/14/22 1:12pm
Fri 4/15/22 3:11pm
Sat 4/16/22 5:11pm
Sun 4/17/22 7:30pm
Mon 4/18/22 8:50am
Tue 4/19/22 3:51am
Tue 4/19/22 10:19pm
Wed 4/20/22 4:18pm
Thu 4/21/22 11:49am
Fri 4/22/22 5:18am
Sat 4/23/22 12:21am
Sat 4/23/22 6:11pm
Sun 4/24/22 7:28am
Sun 4/24/22 9:42pm
Mon 4/25/22 1:52pm
Tue 4/26/22 9:39am
Wed 4/27/22 1:18am
Wed 4/27/22 6:40pm
Thu 4/28/22 3:10pm
Fri 4/29/22 5:29am
Fri 4/29/22 11:18pm
Sun 5/1/22 2:18am
Sun 5/1/22 8:50pm
Mon 5/2/22 2:08pm
Tue 5/3/22 7:49am
Wed 5/4/22 12:36am
Wed 5/4/22 6:37pm
Thu 5/5/22 11:48am
Fri 5/6/22 5:11am
Fri 5/6/22 10:47pm
Sat 5/7/22 4:36pm

Notice how it moves all over the place. 41 spins in about four weeks. Pick a few times per day that you would listen for about 20 minutes and then check how often you'd hear that song in the course of a month.

Let's just take the past seven days to match your sarcastic example. If you listened between 7:45-8:05am, 12:10-12:30pm, and 5:35-5:55pm, you would have heard it exactly once. Shift those listening times backwards a half-hour, and it's still once.

That's just often enough for the average consensus listener to hear that particular favorite often, but not too often. In fact, when most listeners complain about repetition they are usually referring to "songs I don't remember well enough to really like them".

This is how radio music programming works. The methodology is designed to work with today's average listening habits. People generally do not listen for long periods of time, so we don't program in a way that presumes same.

If this didn't work, it wouldn't be as successful as it is, in market upon market, at station after station. And if using a broader or deeper library got better ratings, don't you think we'd be doing it that way?

 

[Radio Wreck]

And if using a broader or deeper library got better ratings, don't you think we'd be doing it that way?

It may not work even though theoretically it should. Let’s say an adult hits or classic hits radio station focused on the years 1976 to 2000 and its playlist averaged 30 songs per year. That’s a 750 song playlist over that 25 year period. Considering all of the hit music that was released during those years I could make a hell of an enjoyable radio station. But since I’m not a program director I’ll have to stick to making my playlists on Spotify.

 

[davideduardo]

It may not work even though theoretically it should. Let’s say an adult hits or classic hits radio station focused on the years 1976 to 2000 and its playlist averaged 30 songs per year. That’s a 750 song playlist over that 25 year period. Considering all of the hit music that was released during those years I could make a hell of an enjoyable radio station. But since I’m not a program director I’ll have to stick to making my playlists on Spotify.

A person who was 15 years old in 1976 is going to be in their early 60's today... way out of the sales demos.

And while the 15 year old heard recurrents and some gold on their Top 40 station back then, songs that were hits before puberty of listeners tend to not score well at all on tests.

So you are down to about 1980 to 1982 as the start year. And you are just over 500 songs. Eliminate the songs that no longer test at all, and you are more likely in the 400 to 450 range.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

Being super adamant about what works and what doesn't while FM continues to lose ground as a medium is a big chunk of hubris. Those are the actions of an industry trying to slow the bleeding rather than adapt and innovate.

When the pie in terms of choices gets bigger, the slices get smaller. The “losing ground” cliche often ignores that. Realistically when I grew up, radio “competed” with…records. And clearly that was at home. Some people had higher end car radios at the time with the 8 tracks and cassettes, but that’s not remotely comparable to a world like today. There are things a broadcast signal cannot do. So be it. The companies are investing in platforms that can do those things. But of course FM is seeing a smaller chunk of the total pie (measured across both time spent and total audience). Playing songs people tell you they flat out don’t want isn’t reversing that.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

It may not work even though theoretically it should. Let’s say an adult hits or classic hits radio station focused on the years 1976 to 2000 and its playlist averaged 30 songs per year. That’s a 750 song playlist over that 25 year period. Considering all of the hit music that was released during those years I could make a hell of an enjoyable radio station. But since I’m not a program director I’ll have to stick to making my playlists on Spotify.

It shouldn’t theoretically either. My musical sweet spot is the 80s. I listen fairly regularly to the 80s countdown on XM because I find it amusing at times. Holy hell there are a lot of songs on there I either do not remember or do remember and do not, ever, care to hear. They were hits by the definition of the day. Doesn’t make them hits today.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

How many listeners are really scared off if a playlist contains a handful of more adventurous tracks, vs. listeners who don't come back because they've heard Jack and Diane/Free Fallin'/Hotel California for the 7th time this week. 🤷‍♂️

It’s not about being “afraid” of anything. That’s frankly a nonsensical straw man. People want to hear what they want to hear. That’s by and large their favorites, and their favorites today is not necessarily the same as back in the day. I’m listening for shot hauls while I drive, or clean the kitchen, or between meetings at my desk, or whatever. Yes, I want favorites. If I want something that’s a particular quirky favorite of mine, I have my personal library.

Play a lot of junk I don’t want to hear, I’m not spending my time with you. I’m not “afraid” of squat.

 

[TheBigA]

A person who was 15 years old in 1976 is going to be in their early 60's today... way out of the sales demos.

Looking at the Top 20 most played songs in Mediabase, 7 of them are from the 70s, 11 are from the 80s, and 2 from the 90s.

The oldest song is Dream On by Aerosmith (1973) followed by Sweet Home Alabama by Lynyrd Skynyrd. The newest is Alanis Morissette from 1995.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

But at least they're trying!

Being super adamant about what works and what doesn't while FM continues to lose ground as a medium is a big chunk of hubris. Those are the actions of an industry trying to slow the bleeding rather than adapt and innovate.

I don't think anyone would disagree that AM/FM broadcast is an industry in decline. But the problems in the radio industry have little to do with programming, and lots to do with advertising dollars moving to new media (online video, podcasts, social media).

There is no yarn that a radio seller could spin for Nike or Amazon to drop its targeted online advertising for radio marketing.

 

[TheBigA]

I don't think anyone would disagree that AM/FM broadcast is an industry in decline. But the problems in the radio industry have little to do with programming, and lots to do with advertising dollars moving to new media (online video, podcasts, social media).

I'll add that while people can make generalizations about the industry, this discussion is about one station, and it's a station that has been consistently one of the most successful stations in Philadelphia. The problem with the station isn't lack of audience or bad programming. The problem is that the audience is aging. The aging audience is causing a revenue decline. That's a very different problem.

 

[K.M. Richards]

So you are down to about 1980 to 1982 as the start year. And you are just over 500 songs. Eliminate the songs that no longer test at all, and you are more likely in the 400 to 450 range.

And that's consistent with how I program my format. Roughly 125 powers, 185 secondary, 100 accents and a rotating set of 50 neutral droppable fills taken from a pool of about 100.

And, as my Tom Petty example shows, that works well for spreading out plays of even the highest-play (power) songs. If anything, I'm probably more cautious about repeats than the majority of Classic Hits programmers, largely because I work entirely within a single decade.

 

[TheBigA]

And that's consistent with how I program my format. Roughly 125 powers, 185 secondary, 100 accents and a rotating set of 50 neutral droppable fills taken from a pool of about 100.

Looking once again at WOGL's Top 20 most played songs in Mediabase, one song stands out: "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac. This is the LIve version from 1997 that originally was a Top 10 AC. It's the highest charting version of that song. It's among the Top 10 most played songs on WOGL last week. The week before, it was outside the Top 100. So they are moving songs around every week. Songs that were most played last week get cycled down, and a different group moves up. It's an active, rather than static playlist.

 

[Irishfl]

Perhaps I am overstating the amount of Rap on Big 103, but here are examples of songs I have heard on Big 103 that I have never heard on BEN-FM:
1. "Gin & Juice" - Snoop Dogg
2. "O.P.P." - Naughty by Nature
3. "California Love" - Tupac
4. "Hypnotize" - Notorious B.I.G.
5. "Jump Around" - House of Pain

Big 103 definitely is Rock-based. But they plan a great deal of Rhythmic and Rap titles that, like you said, BEN-FM would not touch.

Have heard O.P.P. & California Love on BEN in the past. Jump around is in their current playlist rotation and is getting played often (or was a 3 weeks ago). Otherwise I agree with you. Ben to me sounds like pre-1997 Y100 with its 90's selection.

 

[ScottBurns]

Have heard O.P.P. & California Love on BEN in the past. Jump around is in their current playlist rotation and is getting played often (or was a 3 weeks ago). Otherwise I agree with you. Ben to me sounds like pre-1997 Y100 with its 90's selection.

I’ll have to listen more closely, because I’ve never heard any of those songs on BEN. I’m glad to know that they exist in BEN’s playlist.

 

[Radio Wreck]

Looking once again at WOGL's Top 20 most played songs in Mediabase, one song stands out: "Landslide" by Fleetwood Mac. This is the LIve version from 1997 that originally was a Top 10 AC. It's the highest charting version of that song. It's among the Top 10 most played songs on WOGL last week. The week before, it was outside the Top 100. So they are moving songs around every week. Songs that were most played last week get cycled down, and a different group moves up. It's an active, rather than static playlist.

You have to remember that the week before last they were still Oldies 98 (as some people still call it to this day). This past week was the first full week of Big 98.1 so we’ll have to see if this active rotation continues or if they’ve tweaked the playlist and are going to leave it alone for now,

 

[101tm]

One thing I’ve noticed about the 70s on Audacy’s classic hits stations - they still allow a decent amount of spins to this decade, but are very limited in what they will play from it. iHeart and Cumulus are able to get away with more 70s material in the library it seems.