WOGL Rebrands at Big 98.1

[davideduardo]

But the testing on that music (as you know) isn't based on response when the songs were popular, but how listeners react now. So perhaps musical taste changes as people get older. So people who might have been fans of Whitney or Michael in the 80s are less interested now.

Or, more likely, the did cluster/factor analysis and found that there was a bigger core with a rock leaning version of classic hits than with a pop/CHR leaning version.

What is coming out of this discussion is that they have done more than change rotations... the core "sound" of the station is more Guns n Roses and less Pet Shop Boys and Cyndi Lauper.

 

[TheBigA]

Or, more likely, the did cluster/factor analysis and found that there was a bigger core with a rock leaning version of classic hits than with a pop/CHR leaning version.

Which station has consistently beaten WOGL in all demos but especially 18-34 and 18-49? WMGK, the classic rock station.

The roadmap is pretty obvious. The way to bigger shares and lower demos is to add more rock to the music mix.

 

[K.M. Richards]

And classic hits (going back to oldies) stations are about to face one of their biggest tests as they move nearly completely out of the late 70s and early 80s, which at some stations is already underway. They won’t be able to focus on the 80s forever which has been successful.

Actually, probably much longer than you'd think. There is a resurgence of interest in 80s music -- largely because it is used a lot in commercials, movies, etc. -- and the new interest is coming from younger demographics.

There appears to be a significantly large number of listeners below the traditional Classic Hits demo who like 80s music better than currents. And since they did not hear those songs as currents, they're "new" to them. Since that decade is widely acknowledged as the last one where CHR could go "all over the place" musically, the biggest hits from then are aging quite gracefully, thankyouverymuch.

The 90s will be a tough decade to incorporate heavily due to the fragmentation. The AC material is too slow, the pop material aged pretty poorly, the rhythmic/hip hop material has done well on some of the throwback stations but is polarizing. I’m not sure how it would do up against alternative. As more have to lean in to the 90s, I suspect they’ll go for the alt and pop/rock material from that era since it seems to have had the best longevity. Other than a few hip hop hits that were big, that seems to be the direction most are going with what they’ve added so far. AC has been able to avoid big issues with the 90s by playing more from 2000-on, sprinkling in the well testing 90s songs, and filling the rest out with 80s. Most AC’s still play more 80s than 90s.

You are right on the mark with that observation, and it is the big area of discussion among Classic Hits programmers who are trying to ease the format forward on the calendar.

The big problem, which you correctly allude to in your explanation of your thought process, is that in the 90s CHR fragmented into more tightly-focused sub-genres. It was not unusual to have one CHR be rhythmic and another pop, with relatively little shared listenership, and then have a "hit-oriented" Alt station on top of that. With each "flavor" of CHR having had its own audience, adding 90s to the mix is something akin to walking through a minefield ... one song will please some listeners and cause others to switch stations, and then the ones you pleased with the first song might be turned off by the next 90s song you play.

That also factors into how long Classic Hits is likely to remain 80s-focused. You're practically going to have to have multiple stations in a market, each specializing in a "flavor" of 90s to match the fragmentation when the songs were currents.

 

[ZantennaG1]

The core likes what the core likes... if they research based on a sample that like the overall rock-leaning blend, they will not find many high scoring rhythmic songs, by Black artists or not.

Those were the words I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[101tm]

Also, except for some like 102.7 The Beach in Miami and CBS-FM, most Audacy classic hits stations lean towards rock classic hits. Not to the level of WLS-FM or WJJK, but they clearly favor rock. Rock equals better demos. IHeart’s top 50 market classic hits stations tend to play more pop and have more varied playlists than those of Audacy, covering the decades more and not being as cookie cutter/tight with the playlists.

It’s not just minority artists. On the even more rock leaning classic hits stations, like WLS-FM and WJJK in Indy, outside of Pat Benatar, Joan Jett, Heart, and a few others there are next to no female artists played. A lot of classic hits stations have moved away from Madonna and Whitney Houston, even though both are still a big part of the 80s rotation on most AC’s. WLS-FM may play “Like a Prayer” or “Into the Groove” every couple of days, but she has been cut back significantly. WROR used to be a heavily rock leaning classic hits station, but these days it seems pretty straight down the middle to me. They play a lot of pop and AC type stuff as well that some classic hits stations may consider sleepy. I remember that they used to not even play Whitney Houston, Prince, Michael Jackson, or Madonna, but they finally fixed that by the mid 2010s and honestly play more pop than Big 98.1.

From what I’ve heard from a few insiders, 90s on 9 on SiriusXM is one of their lowest rated decade channels. Due to low listenership they canned most, if not all DJ’s around 2014-2015 but recently added a few again. Pop2K, the 2000s channel, does much better and has a roster of DJ’s. They do fairly well cobbling the decade together, but Lithium which is just 90s Alt and pop-Alt is much better and much more successful.

I do believe, in response to staying power of the 80s, that as time has gone on each decade has stayed around a bit longer. Relatively speaking 1964 and on 60s stayed on oldies stations way longer than 50s and pre-1964. 70s have stayed on classic hits stations longer than post-64 60s when the format was evolving in the late 2000s. You weren’t going to hear a 50 year old song in 2012, but you will likely hear something from 1972 in 2022 - even on some AC’s! 70s and 80s definitely have more staying power than the decades before them, likely due to more exposure, better sound quality, and deeper/better quality material (IMHO!).

 

[victorres43]

IMO whether rock does better among demos depends on market; a lot of Midwestern / Rust Belt radio markets seem to have an affinity for classic rock, but it's not as clear cut in other places. In New York, WCBS-FM has done better than WAXQ in key demos; let's not even mention the current state off WNYL. KOST (and sometimes KTWV, as of late) have done as well as KRTH in money demos, which does play pop and R&B even with its New Wave friendliness; all three aforementioned LA stations do better than KLOS. Seattle's classic hip hop station KHTP is doing as well as KJEB (formerly KJR-FM); both are doing better than KZOK. KISW does perform well, but one could attribute it to the morning show and/or the high presence of grunge, one of Seattle's own genres. Does WBGG in Miami even register in the top echelons of the money demos?

There are many 70s songs with staying power, although they are usually rock with some disco; for every Dancing Queen, you have several Copacabanas. On the other hand, many time-tested 80s songs are pop; Michael Jackson and Madonna tend to have significantly more staying power than Motley Crüe, for instance.

 

[Miguelito]

The new name is Big 98.1. But maybe it should be White 98.1. I'm listening to WOGL and looking at the playlist. Not a single minority artist has been played from 10pm to 12am on Tuesday May 3.

Lynyrd Skynyrd--Sweet Home Alabama
Joan Jett--I Love Rock and Roll
Stevie Nicks--Edge of 17
Billy Joel--We Didn't Start The Fire
Human League--Don't You Want Me?
Paul McCartney--Maybe I'm Amazed
AC/DC--You Shook Me All Night Long
Billy Idol--Mony, Mony
Def Leppard--Pour Some Sugar on Me
Eurythmics--Sweet Dreams
Pink Floyd--Another Brick in The Wall
Pat Benatar--Love Is A Battlefield
A-Ha--Take on Me
Red Hot Chili Peppers--Under The Bridge
Guns n Roses--Sweet Child o' Mine
Taylor Dayne--Tell It to My Heart
Queen--We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions
Poison--Every Rose Has Its Thorns
Whitesnake--Here I Go Again
Tommy Tutone--Jenny 867-5309
Aerosmith--Sweet Emotion
Bryan Adams--Summer of 69
Journey--Don't Stop Believing
Madonna--Material Girl

Can you image, in Philadelphia, the home of "The Philly Sound," that this is the playlist for the Classic Hits station? Not a single artist of color in more than 2 hours of music?

I mean, there's no doubt that that is a very white list of songs. I kinda feel like the software should have something built in that throws an error like "You know this sounds racist, right?" But it should be noted that since midnight, Big 98.1 has played songs by Bel Biv Devoe, Kool & The Gang, Commodores, Rockwell, Salt N' Pepa, Michael Jackson, Bobby Brown, Prince, Shannon, Boyz II Men, Stevie Wonder, Earth Wind and Fire, and Gloria Gaynor. Neither all-white, nor all-Rock.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

This is perhaps why relatively brief snapshots should not be regarded as the be-all and end-all?

 

[BRNout]

Well, the very "white" playlist of WOGL seems pretty typical for a modern so-called "classic hits" formatted station. Which is to say "classic rock hits". This is what I hear on WLS-FM or WRIT Milwaukee. To me, I've heard all of those songs a million times and find them to be monotonous (the Motley Crue, Springsteen, Journey, G n R stuff). If I want classic rock (and I often do), I gravitate toward a real classic rock station with a deep playlist, such as WDRV (the Drive) in Chicago. If I want a mix of oldies, MeTV FM does a great job and surprises me often. But I never tune in WLS-FM any more because it's too boring and predictable. Several years ago, it was my go to.

How many listeners feel likewise? I don't know. But it seems to me that if you're going to play hits of a certain era and only go for really 'safe' rock-ish hits, you are not going to have a monopoly on much of anything. And yes, I realize that my musical tastes are far more broad than that of the average listener. Yet you should see them brighten up when they hear a tune that they haven't heard in a long time. Or something fresh and good.

What has happened with the programming of stations like the IHM and Audacy classic hits formatted stations is one reason why radio is losing the dashboard wars and market share overall. It's boring. In my next chapter on how radio is slowly killing itself, we'll discuss marathon stop sets........

 

[TheBigA]

How many listeners feel likewise? I don't know. But it seems to me that if you're going to play hits of a certain era and only go for really 'safe' rock-ish hits, you are not going to have a monopoly on much of anything.

Just a reminder that radio stations are not in the music distribution business. They play "safe" hits because they attract a consensus audience, which the stations then sell to advertisers. If advertising was not in the equation, playlists would likely be different.

 

[BRNout]

Just a reminder that radio stations are not in the music distribution business. They play "safe" hits because they attract a consensus audience, which the stations then sell to advertisers. If advertising was not in the equation, playlists would likely be different.

You make a good, yet frustrating, point. But sadly, I see this as yet another way that the big corporate pursuit of advertisers is slowly killing the golden goose. First off, the mega stop sets. Nothing puts off people under 40 more about radio than the 6 minute barrage of ads. And rather than the mix of somewhat entertaining ads that were more common of legit national advertisers (you know, Coke, Pepsi, GM, etc.), we get 6 minutes of Sue Kozner talking about how she needs a big man to keep her satisfied, followed by the horrible torture of off-key brats singing the Kars-4-Kids jingle. We've gone from "Taste that beats the others cold!" to "i-877-Kars 4 Kids".

Secondly, more to your point, the playing of "safe" hits is as unimaginative as it gets. It's not good radio, it is boring radio. It's why I don't listen as often I used to. And, I'm not alone: people (especially younger people) are streaming their own playlists. It's a very on demand world and I don't see radio offering up much compelling content to slow the inevitable. If anything they're accelerating it by purposely cutting off the older audience that will continue to loyally tune in.

 

[TheBigA]

You make a good, yet frustrating, point. But sadly, I see this as yet another way that the big corporate pursuit of advertisers is slowly killing the golden goose.

It has NOTHING to do with "big corporate pursuit." Advertising is the only source of revenue available to radio, regardless of ownership. So mom & pop stations are burdened with the exact same problem. In their case, they have to decide just how much of their own personal money they want to lose.

BTW the advertisers you mentioned (Coke Pepsi GM) don't buy much radio any more. They get better deals from TV or their own event sponsorship. That's why radio advertising is stuck with the ones you mention, especially for older targeting formats such as classic hits.

Secondly, more to your point, the playing of "safe" hits is as unimaginative as it gets. It's not good radio, it is boring radio.

Unless your taste in music is for safe hits. Music is a very small part in the lives of the vast majority of people in this country. All most people want is something to tap their toes to. For them, free radio is perfect. People like you should PAY for the music. Radio is a lot more than music. One of the mistakes Audacy has been making has been focusing on the music rather than their own staffing.

 

[AbrahamJSimpson]

No revenue, no business. No paychecks. So how is the pursuit of advertising negative? The old days are gone for a multitude of reasons, but business has always been about making money.

As for the eternal “why not play more songs” debate…why exactly would you play songs that a big chunk of the product you need to sell tells you “no.”

When I hear one of those forgotten or lost song features on one of XM’s decades channels for example, easily two to three times more make me tune out than keep me listening. And the ones that make my ears figuratively hurt are enjoyable to someone else. The consensus is what it is, and people who want to hear their favorites are not somehow “lesser” than those who boast of their supposedly wider tastes.

 

[Miguelito]

You make a good, yet frustrating, point. But sadly, I see this as yet another way that the big corporate pursuit of advertisers is slowly killing the golden goose. First off, the mega stop sets. Nothing puts off people under 40 more about radio than the 6 minute barrage of ads. And rather than the mix of somewhat entertaining ads that were more common of legit national advertisers (you know, Coke, Pepsi, GM, etc.), we get 6 minutes of Sue Kozner talking about how she needs a big man to keep her satisfied, followed by the horrible torture of off-key brats singing the Kars-4-Kids jingle. We've gone from "Taste that beats the others cold!" to "i-877-Kars 4 Kids".

Secondly, more to your point, the playing of "safe" hits is as unimaginative as it gets. It's not good radio, it is boring radio. It's why I don't listen as often I used to. And, I'm not alone: people (especially younger people) are streaming their own playlists. It's a very on demand world and I don't see radio offering up much compelling content to slow the inevitable. If anything they're accelerating it by purposely cutting off the older audience that will continue to loyally tune in.

The real irony for me in being a radio geek is that I don't even like radio anymore. The only reason I ever check out terrestrial radio is because the industry has been a hobby of mine since I was a kid. I clearly remember the first on-air personality I ever knew telling me "Radio gets in your blood. Once it's there, you can't get rid of it." At the time, it sounded like some sort of happy antibodies. Now, it sounds like herpes.

 

[nd2023]

The new name is Big 98.1. But maybe it should be White 98.1. I'm listening to WOGL and looking at the playlist. Not a single minority artist has been played from 10pm to 12am on Tuesday May 3.

Lynyrd Skynyrd--Sweet Home Alabama
Joan Jett--I Love Rock and Roll
Stevie Nicks--Edge of 17
Billy Joel--We Didn't Start The Fire
Human League--Don't You Want Me?
Paul McCartney--Maybe I'm Amazed
AC/DC--You Shook Me All Night Long
Billy Idol--Mony, Mony
Def Leppard--Pour Some Sugar on Me
Eurythmics--Sweet Dreams
Pink Floyd--Another Brick in The Wall
Pat Benatar--Love Is A Battlefield
A-Ha--Take on Me
Red Hot Chili Peppers--Under The Bridge
Guns n Roses--Sweet Child o' Mine
Taylor Dayne--Tell It to My Heart
Queen--We Will Rock You/We Are The Champions
Poison--Every Rose Has Its Thorns
Whitesnake--Here I Go Again
Tommy Tutone--Jenny 867-5309
Aerosmith--Sweet Emotion
Bryan Adams--Summer of 69
Journey--Don't Stop Believing
Madonna--Material Girl

Can you image, in Philadelphia, the home of "The Philly Sound," that this is the playlist for the Classic Hits station? Not a single artist of color in more than 2 hours of music?

Classix 107.9 plays mostly black artists

 

[kevtronics]

For comparison, a two-hour snapshot of what WCBS-FM played today. Almost exclusively '80s, a lot more pop than rock, a lot more women, and a lot more artists of color:

WHITNEY HOUSTON I Wanna Dance With Somebody...
PHIL COLLINS You Can't Hurry Love
CYNDI LAUPER Time After Time
BILLY JOEL Tell Her About It
DURAN DURAN Hungry Like The Wolf
REO SPEEDWAGON Take It On The Run
MICHAEL JACKSON Rock With You
BANGLES Eternal Flame
JOHN C MELLENCAMP Small Town
BILL MEDLEY & JENNIFER WARNES (I've Had) The Time Of My Life
CROWDED HOUSE Don't Dream It's Over
RUFUS/CHAKA KHAN Ain't Nobody
CARS Drive
R.E.M. Losing My Religion
BLONDIE The Tide Is High
BILLY IDOL Mony Mony
MARVIN GAYE Sexual Healing
BELINDA CARLISLE Heaven Is A Place On Earth
BON JOVI Livin' On A Prayer
SPANDAU BALLET True
EDDY GRANT Electric Avenue
LYNYRD SKYNYRD Sweet Home Alabama
MADONNA Material Girl
HUMAN LEAGUE Don't You Want Me
CLUB NOUVEAU Lean On Me
SIMPLE MINDS Don't You (Forget About Me)
KATRINA & THE WAVES Walking On Sunshine
BLUES TRAVELER Run-Around
TINA TURNER What's Love Got To Do With It
GEORGE MICHAEL/ELTON JOHN Don't Let The Sun Go Down...
QUEEN Crazy Little Thing Called Love
HALL & OATES Maneater
PRINCE I Would Die 4 U

 

[TheBigA]

At the time, it sounded like some sort of happy antibodies. Now, it sounds like herpes.

There are still a lot of radio stations that are doing very interesting things. They tend to be in the non-commercial world.

Spend a few hours at WXPN, and you'll hear music and artists you've never heard before. A whole new world.

 

[K.M. Richards]

There are still a lot of radio stations that are doing very interesting things. They tend to be in the non-commercial world.

Emphasis on the non-commercial, which goes back to the complaints in post #191 that you addressed in the following post, A.

Far too many of the complaints seen here and other message boards about commercial radio's perceived "failings" are inevitably posted from a perspective that conveniently ignores the necessity of ad revenue (because this is a business!) and/or that stations only get to air the spots for companies that want to pay for the exposure.

If the so-called "legit national advertisers" (and who says companies other than Coke, Pepsi, and GM aren't legit?) don't advertise on radio anymore and took their "somewhat entertaining ads" with them, I say it is the fault of radio listeners who defected to other media and made radio less attractive to those companies.

In other words, there should be more looking in the mirror by those who ask "how did this happen?"

 

[TheBigA]

I say it is the fault of radio listeners who defected to other media and made radio less attractive to those companies.

We saw the exact same thing happen to AM radio. I constantly see people say that if the programming on AM was better, that they'd listen. But the fact is that there was a time when the programming on AM *WAS* better, and listeners defected to FM because they could hear the same music in stereo, sometimes with fewer commercials. That shift of the audience destroyed hundreds of heritage radio stations that a lot of people today still remember. But it didn't happen because of corporate radio. It happened because the listeners went somewhere else. Then the money followed them. The same thing is happening now to FM.

 

[K.M. Richards]

When I hear one of those forgotten or lost song features on one of XM’s decades channels for example, easily two to three times more make me tune out than keep me listening. And the ones that make my ears figuratively hurt are enjoyable to someone else. The consensus is what it is, and people who want to hear their favorites are not somehow “lesser” than those who boast of their supposedly wider tastes.

The tricks to making that "forgotten lost hits" feature are twofold, and ones that XM can't really do ... one, to carefully research those titles so as to limit yourself to the ones which resonates with the specific station's audience. Too often, there is a philosophy of "might as well include it" instead of remembering that "what you don't play can't hurt you". And two, have enough of them that you can wait months to repeat any title; if doing #1 means you can't achieve #2, better to eschew the feature and instead bring back in lunar rotation songs that had been powers or secondaries several years ago but which got dropped in the interim. Those songs are going to be safer in terms of "making people tune out".