Wondering?

[ricksegers]

Ludlow Porch's passing has me thinking...Ludlow, Neil Boortz and Clark Howard all got their radio start in a major market (Atlanta) with no previous radio experience. Would this happen today?

BTW, I guess you could also put Ryan Seacrest in this list too.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Sometimes I go sit in a quiet corner and try to analyze what is different about radio today compared to radio "Back When". And in pondering your question, your observation... would it be fair to say that radio 20 to 40 years ago had more of a "farmer who experiments with new crops" type mentality. My dad used to hang out with county agents and with "Experiment Farm" they ran. They could talk him into going home and trying some new fangled idea on a few spare acres. Some of them worked, and some did not. But he remained game to trying new ideas his entire life.

Does radio today have no acres they are willing to experiment with? If you don't own the farm and you just work there, what are your chances of getting the owner to let you try something new when the owner considers every acre too valuable for play-time.

 

[RoddyFreeman]

I don't know how Ludlow got his start. But Neil and Clark got into Atlanta radio in unconventional ways. Neil was a regular caller to Ring Radio (WRNG). The day after one of the hosts took his own life, Neil camped at the station's door and asked if he could replace the deceased host. As far as Clark Howard, I was told he attended the same synagogue as then WGST PD Eric Seidel. Seidel knew Clark was in the travel business and needed someone for a Sunday travel show.

 

[InSearchOfGear]

Ludlow Porch's passing has me thinking...Ludlow, Neil Boortz and Clark Howard all got their radio start in a major market (Atlanta) with no previous radio experience. Would this happen today?

BTW, I guess you could also put Ryan Seacrest in this list too.

Since everyone gets into the biz with no prior experience, I assume you're referring to market size.

In addition to myself, I can name at least 10 other people (but I won't) who first hit the air in Miami. I know a few people who first cracked the mic in NYC. I don't think this particular dynamic has changed. There may be fewer jobs, but the percentage of newbies in majors will probably stay the same.

 

[Bengalsfan]

Does radio today have no acres they are willing to experiment with? If you don't own the farm and you just work there, what are your chances of getting the owner to let you try something new when the owner considers every acre too valuable for play-time.

No, not anymore. The farm is leveraged to the hilt now. They can't afford to experiment on a few acres anymore because the whole farm must be productive in order to pay the mortgage. And when they do try and experiment, rarely do they give it enough time for the crops to fully develop before they plow it all up and try something new.

The problem they are having is that the soil has been nearly exhausted of it's nutrients. Crops are not producing nearly as much as they used to and the consumers are moving on to more fertile soil, mainly the internet. Unless broadcasters start taking more chances, and start rotating more crops out to replinish the soil, we are going to wind up with a vast, barren land that won't grow anything because the consumers have found rich, black land soil of other programmers who are willing to take chances.

and yes, I grew up in the south and I get the whole farming analogy and it works wonderfully here.

 

[vigodsky]

Great, apt analogies, Bengalsfan. Hopefully, HD radio, low power FM and internet radio can reach some kind of critical mass in the next few years so that innovators/risk takers can break new ground again. And hopefully, the so called big guys who've played monopoly with the people's broadcast spectrum and thoroughly screwed up the radio we have today, will NOT be permitted to be part of the new equation.

 

[ricksegers]

I don't know how Ludlow got his start. But Neil and Clark got into Atlanta radio in unconventional ways. Neil was a regular caller to Ring Radio (WRNG). The day after one of the hosts took his own life, Neil camped at the station's door and asked if he could replace the deceased host. As far as Clark Howard, I was told he attended the same synagogue as then WGST PD Eric Seidel. Seidel knew Clark was in the travel business and needed someone for a Sunday travel show.

Roddy you summed it up. "Unconventional ways" are something whose time, I'm afraid, has passed.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I was reading some commentary on the traffic and transportation issues faced by metro Atlanta recently and the author made an interesting (opinion) observation. His view is that circa 1950 to 1960 Atlanta was a relatively small market..... he compared it to Indianapolis and Columbus (Ohio). And so when the Interstate Highway System was laid out, Atlanta got the same kind of "loop" those two cities got. The other two cities have grown and matured some and the Interstate system coupled with their "military map grid" surface streets handle the traffic well.

Atlanta on the other hand has grown unbelievably and we are left with a small-market Interstate system and our "Indian trails" street layout and they are no match for our traffic load.

That observation really hit home with me because I lived a long, long time in Indianapolis and have made a number of trips through Columbus.

Here is how I relate all that to radio: I remember what radio was like back in the era the Ludlow and Boortz and Clark Howard entered the business. If Atlanta radio back them was on a par with radio in Indy and Columbus and other comparable communities, breaking in as a newbie was nothing like trying to break in from scratch in Chicago or New York City and other already big and mature markets. I suspect those of you who have lived here longer than my decade of residence can think of other people who were able to begin their careers here, or develop their careers with very little prior radio experience.

I can remember when I was doing radio in the "Mayberry Markets" and I would traipse off to Little Rock or Memphis or Tulsa in search of bigger and better opportunity and at the end of the interview, the Program Director would give me this deer-in-the-headlights look and tell me: "If you find what you are looking for... let lme know. I want you've got now!"

And speaking of career opportunities and paying your dues: Did you see the TV report the other night about the folks who fly commuter airlines? The person up front in the uniform responsible for getting you there safely may be making $17,000 per year.... and got four hours sleep last night on the sofa in the pilots ready-room because he/she can't afford to pay $25 per night for a bunk in the "rabbit-hutch" that is available to them. I guess radio is not the only business where the career path in unkind to some participants.

 

[Bengalsfan]

Great, apt analogies, Bengalsfan. Hopefully, HD radio, low power FM and internet radio can reach some kind of critical mass in the next few years so that innovators/risk takers can break new ground again. And hopefully, the so called big guys who've played monopoly with the people's broadcast spectrum and thoroughly screwed up the radio we have today, will NOT be permitted to be part of the new equation.

HD radio, LPFM and internet are nothing more than delivery methods. The problem is, you can have all the delivery platforms you can think of, but if you have nothing worth delivering, what good are they? It all comes down to programming. Radio stations have stopped innovating because they can't afford to. Internet broadcasters are the new black land for innovative programming. Once the delivery method is in place, it's all over for the traditional broadcasters....unless they change their myopic view of broadcasting and start to innovate, too.

 

[vigodsky]

You get me an LPFM platform that takes a path from and on either side of Emory University through Druid Hills, Lenox Park, Virginia Highland to Little 5 and I can assure you that I will identify more than enough neighbors and fellow travelers to provide excellent, relevant community programming 24/7...and for very little outlay. Traditional radio stations have stopped innovating for the most part not because they can't afford to but because they WON'T afford to. The poobahs don't like to stretch higher than the easily gotten low hanging fruit. The broadcasting biz doesn't run much differently than the government presently DOESN'T run and it's all our faults for letting it continue this way... at our own peril. Still, your points are spot on and well taken.

the mag

 

[kal30005]

I think the idea of innovative terrestrial radio at the local level is probably not very feasible. There just isn't enough money in it anymore to support more.

I have stated in other threads that I think the future or terrestrial radio is probably companies like Clear Channel creating one "master" station for each of it's primary formats that it rebroadcasts in all it's markets. I'm not talking about syndicating individual programs or voice tracking talent, but actually taking a station like Kiss-FM in L.A. and simulcasting the entire feed to 20 or 30 markets. And the only localization comes in the form of local commercial breaks and maybe a break for a local local weather and/or traffic announcer in drive time.

Like it or not, any talent innovation is going to have to be done based on a more national audience. Internet radio makes a lot of sense because there are minimal start-up and operation costs and you already see some of the local talent putting stations together.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

I'm not talking about syndicating individual programs or voice tracking talent, but actually taking a station like Kiss-FM in L.A. and simulcasting the entire feed to 20 or 30 markets. And the only localization comes in the form of local commercial breaks and maybe a break for a local local weather and/or traffic announcer in drive time.

Like it or not, any talent innovation is going to have to be done based on a more national audience. Internet radio makes a lot of sense because there are minimal start-up and operation costs and you already see some of the local talent putting stations together.

My vision is apparently 180 degrees out of sync with your vision. I see streaming as the proper vehicle for simulcasting a Los Angeles station to people across the nation. I don't see a few local commercial breaks and maybe a break for a local weather and traffic announcer as suitable content for a local transmitter.

There are more stations licensed than are needed to provide local content. I just did a quick check on Radio-Locator and there are 71 stations licensed for metro Atlanta. Tell the operators of licensed broadcast stations that they must include 40 minutes of local content in every hour, and that commercially recorded music IS NOT LOCAL content.

When we get thinned down to may 30 broadcasters, there will be enough ad revenue per station to pay the talent, and maybe beginners can once again follow in the foot-steps of Ludlow Porch and others.

I'm not holding my breath for this to happen. There are many good reasons why it will NOT happen, but we could steer the industry more in that direction.

 

[kal30005]

Goat Rodeo Cowboy:

In theory, I don't disagree with you and I'm sure they will want to stream those super stations as well. It only makes sense.

But the problem is that companies like Clear Channels have a millions and millions of dollars invested in terrestrial radio stations. Yet radio revenues have declines sharply. In fact, 27% from the previous year in San Francisco according to this article http://sfadvertising.com/?p=27 .

But still, they've got to do something with these stations to generate revenues and cut costs. There's no way they can pay a full staff anymore. Jockless radio isn't working and voice tracking still costs money. Creating super stations is probably the cheapest alternative and would probably increase ratings and revenues. From a business point of view, it may be the only alternative.

 

[agentUrge]

I have stated in other threads that I think the future or terrestrial radio is probably companies like Clear Channel creating one "master" station for each of it's primary formats that it rebroadcasts in all it's markets. I'm not talking about syndicating individual programs or voice tracking talent, but actually taking a station like Kiss-FM in L.A. and simulcasting the entire feed to 20 or 30 markets. And the only localization comes in the form of local commercial breaks and maybe a break for a local local weather and/or traffic announcer in drive time.

This has been done before and has been successful. I could see it happening again. Back in 1986, the first syndicated hard rock radio network was launched with Chicago's WZRC as it's flagship station. I believe the studios were based in Dallas and they were in quite a few cities mainly due to the peak in hair band popularity of at the time.

I guess the question is what format would do best? Would talk radio network really be any more fresh than what's currently available? Would another top 40 station?

 

[kal30005]

agentUrge:

Personally, I think local news is the one area that there will always probably be the need for local programming. But I do believe you'll see more news stations being put on an FM signal, like they did with WSB.

For music stations, I could a company like Clear Channel doing it for most of the common popular formats.

 

[trusty]

...I think the future or terrestrial radio is probably companies like Clear Channel creating one "master" station for each of it's primary formats that it rebroadcasts in all it's markets.

We're headed in that direction. It depends on what brings in the most $$$ at the present time, but you can "feel" it coming. It will stay hybrid for awhile, though.

A return to radio networks - imagine that.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Personally, I think local news is the one area that there will always probably be the need for local programming. But I do believe you'll see more news stations being put on an FM signal, like they did with WSB.

Here is my theory that causes me to agree with what you said: If you are going to do news at the local level you need to be The Trusted News Source (or one of two or 2-1/2 local news sources) and to do that you must offer night time coverage. If there is obviously some hot news going on, (TV mentioned during the network break they are working on a story they will share at 11) I want to be able to turn on the radio at 7:47 P.M. or maybe 9:18 P.M. and see if the story is big enough to generate on-going coverage right now.

I can't build that kind of image and reputation any more on A.M. Existing A.M.s that used to cover the city don't anymore for two reasons: (1) the crap-and-noise level on the A.M. band means you do not cover as big a footprint at night as you did 30 years ago. (2) the dense population of a market like Metro Atlanta now reaches maybe four times as far from the A.M. tower as it did 30 years ago so even if we had a clean, quiet spectrum the old Xmitter location and power can't reach the newly expanded total market.

You might begin building your news operation on and A.M. but I suggest it would be a wasted effort if you don't have a game plan to raise the capital and migrate to an F.M. signal. Today the on-line streaming would give you a small amount of boost by reaching the early adopters. Maybe streaming will be more mainstream in a few years, but building your business plan in a way that only works IF streaming becomes significantly stronger is a big risk.

 

[kal30005]

If you are going to do news at the local level you need to be The Trusted News Source (or one of two or 2-1/2 local news sources) and to do that you must offer night time coverage. If there is obviously some hot news going on, (TV mentioned during the network break they are working on a story they will share at 11) I want to be able to turn on the radio at 7:47 P.M. or maybe 9:18 P.M. and see if the story is big enough to generate on-going coverage right now.

You bring up another good point. It only makes sense for local TV and radio stations to either merge or at least team up on their news coverage. Maybe even with the newspapers too. Basically be able to consolidate and become more efficient in their operations where possible and become the primary local news source and distribute and cross promote through TV, radio, print and internet.