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WOR MISSING AN OPPORTUNITY

WOR is one of the oldest, most well-regarded radio brands in New York and the nation. It was once a sister station to WGN Chicago, when both were owned by Mutual. When we think of heritage radio stations, we think of these two and of course, KDKA Pittsburgh.

All three of the heritage radio stations broadcast on 50 kW clear channel signals and can be received far from their home markets. WOR, unfortunately, has run into an issue with Cuba, no less! When WGBS Miami, which like WOR, broadcasts on 710, flipped to Spanish talk during the 80s, a station from Cuba started broadcasting on that frequency with 100 kW. This impacted WOR's coverage in its home market. WOR's nighttime reception in Ocean County, NJ has been compromised, though it's still easily receivable during the daytime.

Then there's the programming. WOR has long been perceived as being a "geriatric" format, with programming that goes back to the 20s and 30s. Except for the time when John Gambling III was at WABC, the Gambling family has ruled AM drive on WOR for nearly the entire history of the station. Joan Hamburg has been there for nearly five decades.

WOR chief competitor, WABC, as we all know, is 100% syndicated Mon-Fri, featuring Rush, Sean, Mark Levin and others. Little attention is paid to New York area issues. Rather than plug the gap that WABC is leaving wide-open, WOR also airs mostly syndicated programmming, with Gambling and Hamburg being the only live and local shows on the station. Much of their programming is on the WOR Radio Network, which has far fewer stations than competing networks such as Premiere. WABC's consistently outrates WOR.

WOR is like an old building that needs to be refurbished, but has potential. The programming needs to be updated, taken local and migrated to FM. This needs to be done if the station is to have a future. :)
 
WGN and WOR were never owned by Mutual; the network was solely a co-operative that both stations had ownership stakes in. Mutual actually DID own two stations, but not at the same time, and long after it ceased operating as a co-op: WCFL/Chicago (now WMVP) in the late 70s; and WHN in the early 80s.

WGN has the same problem, but to an opposite extent: they have always been all local, 24-7, but the station has always been seen as holding a geriatric format (or something even beyond that). Their entire schedule from 5am to 10pm has been dramatically overhauled in less than a year, and it's not come without controversy, to say the least. Of course, Kevin Methany was installed to make those changes, so feel free to draw your own impression from THAT.

IMO, WOR ought to make Steve Malzberg's show local again, and clear all three hours (do ANY stations carry Steve's show live?). To do that, either scoot Lou Dobbs to the 8p-10p slot, dropping Smerconish in the process, or drop both of those shows. That would also enable Joan Hamburg's show to be live-and-local for all three hours. Build off of that.
 
WOR is a lost case, not only is their programing bad they sound so old fashioned on the air, whats going on with them ?? They run a station as if its 1930 pre world war 2 !! They don't listen to anyones advice either, they will sloely disappear as their audience die off...... I listen to Savage online I cant even stand Dave Spencer delivering the news, MY GOD!!!
 
Nathan Obral said:
WGN and WOR were never owned by Mutual; the network was solely a co-operative that both stations had ownership stakes in. Mutual actually DID own two stations, but not at the same time, and long after it ceased operating as a co-op: WCFL/Chicago (now WMVP) in the late 70s; and WHN in the early 80s.

WGN has the same problem, but to an opposite extent: they have always been all local, 24-7, but the station has always been seen as holding a geriatric format (or something even beyond that). Their entire schedule from 5am to 10pm has been dramatically overhauled in less than a year, and it's not come without controversy, to say the least. Of course, Kevin Methany was installed to make those changes, so feel free to draw your own impression from THAT.

IMO, WOR ought to make Steve Malzberg's show local again, and clear all three hours (do ANY stations carry Steve's show live?). To do that, either scoot Lou Dobbs to the 8p-10p slot, dropping Smerconish in the process, or drop both of those shows. That would also enable Joan Hamburg's show to be live-and-local for all three hours. Build off of that.

Sorry for that glitch on Mutual.

WGN was always heavy on Chicago sports, they've been the Cubs' flagship since 1958. They had the Bears from 1953-76, then again from 1985-96. WGN is currently the home for the Stanley Cup champion Blackhawks. WGN probably offsets its older listeners with sports coverage, which is probably the only time they get 25-54 listeners. At least WGN talks about Chicago, 24-7. WOR doesn't talk about New York nearly as much.

WOR was never nearly as much of a sports station. They had the football Giants under a five-year deal they signed in 1993. After three unprofitable seasons, WOR sold the remaining two to WFAN. WOR currently broadcasts Rutgers football and men's b-ball.

I agree Steve Malzberg's show should be local. He actually beats Hannity in PM drive in NY. They might drop Smerconish, but not Lou Dobbs. Joan Hamburg will be at WOR as long as she wants to be. :)
 
Why wouldnt thye drop Lou ?? I can bet his ratings are in toilet he is not made for radio. WOR SUCKS!!! Dave Spancer eats hot potatos while delivreing the news.
 
Wonder if Dobbs is doing better than the previous occupant of the timeslot on WOR, Dennis Miller.

Then again, I wonder if Dennis Miller is doing better in his live timeslot on AM 970 than the previous occupant of that timeslot, some third-tier right-winger.
 
radioguy39nj said:
All three of the heritage radio stations broadcast on 50 kW clear channel signals and can be received far from their home markets.

Unlike KDKA and WGN, WOR is severely directional and was never much of a factor outside its, large as it is, local coverage area.

WOR, unfortunately, has run into an issue with Cuba, no less! When WGBS Miami, which like WOR, broadcasts on 710, flipped to Spanish talk during the 80s, a station from Cuba started broadcasting on that frequency with 100 kW.

Cuba never had any 100 kw stations. Low power, from 1 to 10 kw abound, and there are a few 60 kw and 120 kw stations and a single 300 kw one. 710 always had multiple lower power stations on to block WAQI... as the 800 mile long north coast of Cuba can not be protected by just one transmitter.

This impacted WOR's coverage in its home market. WOR's nighttime reception in Ocean County, NJ has been compromised, though it's still easily receivable during the daytime.

Of course, night listening is only about a third of daytime listening so the impact of this is likely quite limited.
 
I have no reason to believe that local talk will lower the average age of the station. And its the age of the audience that's killing the station. The problem is there is no AM format that will appeal to under 55s, except all news or sports talk, and there are already lots of stations covering those bases. They could hire young local talk show hosts and do a NY version of NJ101.5, but it wouldn't attract new young listeners, and alienate the older folks.
 
It doesn't help that if someone under the age of say... death, samples WOR at the wrong time, they get Joan Hamburg (or any of the awful paid weekend fare) kabitzing about what restaurant she ate at, what Broadway show she saw. I can't imagine anyone being interested in an old biddy sitting around bs'ing about the best shrimp between 48th and 67th streets. UGH.

That show is probably the only thing you can get on the radio in purgatory. Come to think of it, WOR (World's Oldest Radio) has demos that are probably either in purgatory or at least peering through the windows.

The problem is consistency. With WABC, you at least know what you're going to get. With WOR, it could be Malzberg, who does an excellent show, Gambling or Savage. But then that middle of the day from noon-4pm part is like a different radio station.
 
Even Joey Reynolds who had a chance to bring the average listener age down into the 50's ended up catering to the seniors. BTW, what happened to his show?
 
I believe what Buckley Broadcasting is attempting to do is focus on developing the WOR Radio Network, using WOR radio as the flagship radio station or home base for the network programming. For any national network, it is imperative that said network have clearance in New York if the network wants the big ad dollars. Telling a prospective advertiser your network is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania won't impress anyone while at the same time, showing the same prospective sponsor you can deliver New York City will impress them and get the business. In the case of the WOR Radio Network, Buckley has New York clearance with WOR radio. It is difficult to develop national programming that also has a local flavor catered to New York. I.E., it is a trade off of such, and in the case of WOR, localism is somewhat sacrificed in favor of developing national programming via the WOR Radio Network.

The real question to ask from a business perspective woud be is Buckely making more money with WOR as a home base for a national network, or would it be in Buckley's best interest to focus solely, or at least more, on developing local programming catering to the needs of the citizens of the Greater New York Metrpolitan Area?
 
Look at Chicago in WGN, and even L.A. and San Francisco, with many local hosts in primo slots - and well-known hosts, at that. It's quite odd that there is more of a commitment to local talk radio in Markets 2 through 4, but not Market 1 - but that's the business, I guess...

WNTIRadio said:
[WOR's] problem is consistency. With WABC, you at least know what you're going to get. With WOR, it could be Malzberg, who does an excellent show, Gambling or Savage. But then that middle of the day from noon-4pm part is like a different radio station.

As previously mentioned, the 2-4 PM slot has been hosted by a right-leaning host; previously, Dennis Miller, and now, Lou Dobbs (please don't buy into his "independent" baloney).

TheBigA said:
They could hire young local talk show hosts and do a NY version of NJ101.5, but it wouldn't attract new young listeners, and alienate the older folks.

Actually, somebody else already tried it, it was called "Free-FM"... :D
 
DToTheJ said:
Look at Chicago in WGN, and even L.A. and San Francisco, with many local hosts in primo slots - and well-known hosts, at that.

But that's the point. They're all heritage hosts with long standing fan bases. As those hosts age and their audiences die off, you'll see the numbers for those stations drop, because they're not bringing in new listeners.

All the best known NY area talk hosts are either dead or over 65. So replacing the current WOR hosts with someone local, or even taking the current hosts and changing their focus to local won't make a quantifiable change in the station's numbers.
 
evalmaster said:
Even Joey Reynolds who had a chance to bring the average listener age down into the 50's ended up catering to the seniors. BTW, what happened to his show?

Joey Reynolds' show was canceled to make way for C2C w/George Noory when it was dropped by WABC. I'm sure WOR received a nice check from Clear Channel to carry C2C. :)
 
DToTheJ said:
Look at Chicago in WGN, and even L.A. and San Francisco, with many local hosts in primo slots - and well-known hosts, at that. It's quite odd that there is more of a commitment to local talk radio in Markets 2 through 4, but not Market 1 - but that's the business, I guess...

WNTIRadio said:
[WOR's] problem is consistency. With WABC, you at least know what you're going to get. With WOR, it could be Malzberg, who does an excellent show, Gambling or Savage. But then that middle of the day from noon-4pm part is like a different radio station.

As previously mentioned, the 2-4 PM slot has been hosted by a right-leaning host; previously, Dennis Miller, and now, Lou Dobbs (please don't buy into his "independent" baloney).

TheBigA said:
They could hire young local talk show hosts and do a NY version of NJ101.5, but it wouldn't attract new young listeners, and alienate the older folks.

Actually, somebody else already tried it, it was called "Free-FM"... :D

It is quite odd and sad that there is a commitment to local talk in markets 2 through 4 (LA, Chicago, SF) and virtually none in NY, market 1. Citadel listeners in LA, Chicago and SF get more local programming than WABC listeners in NY. Or is it that national syndicators need a New York clearance to have nationwide credibility and WOR and WABC are too happy to accommodate, since it lowers their cost.

Dennis Miller is now carried by AM970 The Apple. IMHO, WOR will never drop Lou Dobbs because he also does business news on John Gambling's show, so he does have some local NY presence.

FREE-FM was never about issue oriented news/talk. It was shock talk. It's not fair to use it as an example that local talk on FM cannot work in NY. :)
 
Joey was costing Rick Buckley $300K a year for the all-night show. That simply did not pencil. In fact it wouldn't pencil for the morning show in todays environment.

What puzzles me is why the company would be building a network and not want one of the great legends of radio Joey Reynolds on the roster. He has marquee value. His show is entertaining and intelligent.

Maybe he'll pop up on XM/Sirius.
 
DToTheJ said:
Look at Chicago in WGN, and even L.A. and San Francisco, with many local hosts in primo slots - and well-known hosts, at that. It's quite odd that there is more of a commitment to local talk radio in Markets 2 through 4, but not Market 1 - but that's the business, I guess...

Don't forget WLW in Cincinnati. All live-and-local for decades. And it's MARKET 28.

WGN's main problem has been, so many of their hosts were at the station for such a long period of time. Three people hosted their morning show from 1965 to 2008: Wally Phillips (1965-1986), Bob Collins (1986-2000) and Spike O'Dell (2000-2008)! (In total, Phillips was at WGN from 1956 to 1998; Collins from 1974 until his tragic death in 2000, and O' Dell from 1987 until 2008!) Not to mention, current late-evening host Milt Rosenburg has been in the same time slot since 1973! The demographics dramatically aged to a category normally seen with adult standards stations, but WGN's been an all-talk station since the late 80s! The Cubs and Blackhawks do bring in numbers, but few would ever stick around during each team's offseason.

Kevin Methany is not in a good position right now. His task basically is to help bring in at least some 25-54 numbers to WGN, what with Tribune having been facing bankruptcy and all (plus WGN has always been their sole radio station). Methany is trying to base WGN's revamp off of WLW/Cincinnati (the architect of WLW's talk format, Randy Micheals, is now president of Tribune's broadcasting division) and judging by the threads on the Chicago board, it's not been all that well-recieved.

DToTheJ said:
TheBigA said:
They could hire young local talk show hosts and do a NY version of NJ101.5, but it wouldn't attract new young listeners, and alienate the older folks.

Actually, somebody else already tried it, it was called "Free-FM"... :D

Would a Free FM concept have worked had Stern stayed on terrestrial radio? Maybe. But CBS Radio was trying to expect way too much from a format like that, especially with little to no marquee stars to base the concept off of. It was a failure waiting to happen.

As for young, local talk hosts... there WAS Andrew Wilkow, formerly of WABC, now with XM/Sirus. It would take serious balls for a station like WOR to hire him away IMO.
 
radioguy39nj said:
WOR and WABC are too happy to accommodate, since it lowers their cost.

It's not only a matter of lowering their costs, because there IS a cost to running syndication. People keep forgetting that. The bigger issue is they're not going to get a credible name hosting a local talk show. They'll just get a warm body who takes calls, and won't have any established credibility, because all the names are either taken, or they WANT to be syndicated in order to become national celebrities.

There are a lot of former politicians who are available and shopping talk shows around New York. But they all insist on syndication, or they aren't interested. Spitzer is an example of a guy who was shopping show ideas around, and took the CNN deal because it gives him a national platform. A New York-only show would not have accomplished what he wanted.
 
Dusty Dale Brooks said:
Joey was costing Rick Buckley $300K a year for the all-night show. That simply did not pencil. In fact it wouldn't pencil for the morning show in todays environment.

What puzzles me is why the company would be building a network and not want one of the great legends of radio Joey Reynolds on the roster. He has marquee value. His show is entertaining and intelligent.

Maybe he'll pop up on XM/Sirius.

Joey was supposed to do a TV gig on NBC's NY digital channel, but I don't think it ever got on.

I'll bet Rick Buckley gets more than $300K from CC for carrying C2C! :)
 
radioguy39nj said:
Dusty Dale Brooks said:
Joey was costing Rick Buckley $300K a year for the all-night show. That simply did not pencil. In fact it wouldn't pencil for the morning show in todays environment.

What puzzles me is why the company would be building a network and not want one of the great legends of radio Joey Reynolds on the roster. He has marquee value. His show is entertaining and intelligent.

Maybe he'll pop up on XM/Sirius.

Joey was supposed to do a TV gig on NBC's NY digital channel, but I don't think it ever got on.

I'll bet Rick Buckley gets more than $300K from CC for carrying C2C! :)

Given the limited amount of spots per hour on C2C (as opposed to most talk shows) I'm sure Buckley is more than happy to receive the money. Plus, all they need to run C2C is a board-op. ;)
 
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